LGBT in Video Games
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I don't think it'd work the same way though, there's no way to tell visually if someone is gay or not so they'd have to make it clear from his personality. They could just constantly remind you in dialogue but that'd get really annoying really fast.Thanatus1992 said:
To reply to the OP, I'm bi myself so I'm biased but it doesn't hurt straight people seeing two men or women making out so I don't see why a gay relationship shown realistically would be a problem to anyone outside Texas.
Hey now, I consider myself 'bisexual', if you will. Are you telling me that my preference for both men and women (people in general) doesn't exist? You're telling me, and other like-minded individuals that we're lying to ourselves because we "can't handle the truth"?Kanlic said:
That's why I picked the metroid example. You play the whole way through and at the end Samus takes of her suit and "OMG it's a girl!". Maybe it's not best for publishers to piss people off and take chances in this unstable economy, but I want a likeable protagonist to go through the entire game being unbelievably bad-ass only for them to be shown kissing, or even just holding hands, with a member of the same sex.Pearwood said:
I like you, when the homosexuals rise up to claim the world you will be spared.tanis1lionheart said:
As a straight games I still agree, but to be fair, I think that's a problem with most media. There aren't characters who are also gay, instead there are gay characters -- if that distinction makes sense.Thanatus1992 said:
As far as the LGBT crowd in general, there's nothing wrong with any of them. If people feel more comfortable with the same sex, or embracing gender roles they weren't born into then more power to them. It's not gross, it's not weird, it's not immoral. It's just different than the norm.
Ah I see, I was thinking of the later Metroids where that was already established. Yeah that'd work, it'd be a nice touch for the LGBT community and it'd piss off homophobes (and those people who certainly aren't homophobic but can't stand seeing two guys kissing) which is always a plus.Thanatus1992 said:
Shadow Hearts:Covenant has you collect gay porn to give to a homosexual tailor couple who makes you dresses for an old, gepetto-ish lecherous oldman type, who plays dress-up with his animated marionette to give her(the marionette, who serves as his weapon) elemental attacks.
Theres just truckloads of innuendo and implied deviance in the game, though i never got halfway through it to see most of it =(
Theres just truckloads of innuendo and implied deviance in the game, though i never got halfway through it to see most of it =(
As a queer gamer, I consider myself a member of the LGBTQ community, although I consider aspects of it problematic (the dismissal of the unique problems felt by POC, those who identify as genderqueer or agender not being recognized, general disregard for those who do not see themselves as "gay" or "lesbian" [i.e., queer, bisexual, pansexual, asexual, etc.]). As such, it's difficult to paint the entire LGBTQ community with one neat opinion. I am comfortable in the communities I have become part of, but to assign everyone who ever identified as other than heterosexual with a singular opinion is as useless as trying to do the same for everyone who identifies as heterosexual.
Do I think that there needs to be a greater emphasis on those who do not fit the "default" game setting of a cissexual, heterosexual male? Yes, in that different aspects of sexuality and gender need to be explored (I think it would behoove the medium as a whole to have lead characters [and not just throwaway supporting characters] that were outside the "norm"). But I don't think that's what you were asking.
Do I think that there needs to be a greater emphasis on those who do not fit the "default" game setting of a cissexual, heterosexual male? Yes, in that different aspects of sexuality and gender need to be explored (I think it would behoove the medium as a whole to have lead characters [and not just throwaway supporting characters] that were outside the "norm"). But I don't think that's what you were asking.
I'm a lesbian and personally I'm okay with whatever people want to do or identify as as long as they don't hurt other people.
And yeah, I'd like to see more LGBT characters who aren't just stereotypes, and where their sexuality is just something that happens to be a part of their character.
And yeah, I'd like to see more LGBT characters who aren't just stereotypes, and where their sexuality is just something that happens to be a part of their character.
I understand the Kinsian scale pretty well, and for the most part it makes sense to me. That being said I just think that guys in particular can't really exist in the middle, it doesn't make sense given the male psychology. We're too aggressive and assertive with our base instincts to allow for any kind of flexibility with our primal needs and urges. Females I give a pass to not because I am a perv (although I certainly am one) but because In my experience, they tend to care more about how someone makes them feel rather than what they physically want like their male counterparts.Thanatus1992 said:
I'll also grant nature gets things wrong from time to time, but those cases are in the minority. Birth defects usually occur from the mother doing something nature couldn't predict (i.e. drinking while pregnant) I don't know much about auto-immune diseases so I'll restrain myself there, but I'm just saying that as a guy who knows many guys, who has discussed at great length about the male genitalia, I know that a man's penis is something not to be trifled with. Any condition other than pristine is unacceptable really, so to think that a guy would want to invert his penis and take a lot of estrogen to become the female he wants to be, well I can't think of anything other than the word crazy.
That being said, I feel like I am coming off as some redneck homophobe. Reality is that I think lesbians and gays are on par with the rest of society when it comes to rights. They know what they want, it's not particularly something I want to try, but at least there isn't confusion with their desires. Bisexuality and Transgendered people... well they don't seem to have much of a grasp on their own life. If you can't even come to terms with what you want in life, especially at its most primal, then I cannot see a healthy mental condition.
I feel like it isn't gaming, it's more like American games or localizations.
For example, in Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door, did you know the Siren Sisters always said Vivian (the one that became you're partner) wasn't a "real sister"? Not because she's a disappointment like it implies in the English translation, but because she's actually a man, which is present in every other localization of the game. That and because she was a disappointment as a villain, I guess.
Nowadays, games like Dragon Age, Bully, and that Gay Tony DLC from GTA are introducing more gay, lesbian, etc. characters into games, or giving the player the choice to create a gay character. Some writers praised Persona 4 because of Kanji's confusion over his sexuality. Something the English localization team decided to keep in.
It seems to me that America is finally getting more used to it, and is comfortable with LGBTs being in their newest, expanding medium: video games.
EDIT: Btw, I finally decided to not lurk and actually post because of this interesting topic. Not many ppl bring up this kind of question, nor do they write a paper about it for class. Good luck on writing it!
For example, in Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door, did you know the Siren Sisters always said Vivian (the one that became you're partner) wasn't a "real sister"? Not because she's a disappointment like it implies in the English translation, but because she's actually a man, which is present in every other localization of the game. That and because she was a disappointment as a villain, I guess.
Nowadays, games like Dragon Age, Bully, and that Gay Tony DLC from GTA are introducing more gay, lesbian, etc. characters into games, or giving the player the choice to create a gay character. Some writers praised Persona 4 because of Kanji's confusion over his sexuality. Something the English localization team decided to keep in.
It seems to me that America is finally getting more used to it, and is comfortable with LGBTs being in their newest, expanding medium: video games.
EDIT: Btw, I finally decided to not lurk and actually post because of this interesting topic. Not many ppl bring up this kind of question, nor do they write a paper about it for class. Good luck on writing it!
My ignorance is showing again, and I must rectify it. Wikipedia claims that "Queer" is an umbrella term used to define all people that are not heterosexual, heteronormative, or gender-binary. However I don't think that's how you're using it in your post, so could you please define the word?mkb07a said:
One thing you could look into that would be rather interesting is "B" in the initialism. I know that amongst a lot of LGBT voices, there is concern over how bisexuals are marginalized, even in the gay community. Sometimes there's this view amongst both straight and gay that the Bi person just can't make up their mind, as opposed to being a legitimate sexuality. However in video games, where there are a set of romantic options, and it is up to the player to decide who their character is attracted to, Bisexuality emerges naturally out of simple player choice. Designers naturally try to enable as much player choice as possible, so Bisexuality grows out of that.
Well if you're a guy, yea. Women have a biology different than the male, mentally and physically which is more conducive to bisexuality.Xixikal said:
This is all coming from anecdotal evidence, but growing up in high school, when I'd hit up parties, girls would make out with each other and explore each other in the name of booze and glory for all the pleased men watching. No one ever thought twice about it. The girls liked kissing each other, the boys liked watching, but at no point did I ever turn to one of my buddies and ask him if he wanted to go at it. The thought never crossed my mind, and I'm almost certain not theirs.
Guys and girls just think differently, and that's okay. I just think we have to be honest with ourselves and accept who we are, and bisexuality just seems like a no-no for a guy. That's not to say experimentation is out of the question, of course not. Do what you need to do to learn about yourself, but the male road only travels two ways.
The problem with not understanding those who identify as trans* or as being attracted to more than one gender is that it doesn't fit neatly into what one would consider "normal". In general, people tend to see the penis-goes-into-vagina part and not understand how the rest works. However, if you don't understand that sexuality cannot be focused on one gender, and disregard it as "crazy", then there's a problem.Kanlic said:
I'm not attacking you, and I hope this doesn't come off that way. I'm just trying to educate. Just because the men in your life have placed importance on the condition of their genitalia does not mean that no man has ever experienced disgust and dysphoria at his genitalia. Not to mention the fact that very few trans* women choose what is known as "bottom surgery" purely based on the fact that it is very costly, painful, and a lot more difficult to secure than being on hormones. The same goes for trans* guys (who generally do not receive surgery for male genitalia).
The fact remains that people who are not attracted to a singular gender or view themselves as a different gender (or no gender at all) aren't crazy, and they do know what they want out of life. You can argue that it's not how "it's supposed to be" but that dismisses the countless people who are very sure how they feel. How can someone deny the legitimacy of a queer, bisexual, or trans* person based on what you brought up? It seems more like you want things to fit neatly into a box, and neither gender nor sexuality work that way.
Pretty much what's been said so far. As long as I don't see 2 dudes making out in public I couldn't care less. No not because they're gay but because I don't like to see straight couples do it either. Lesbians are cool though if they're hot and I can watch 
. I do not think being GLBT is a choice, but the way the person is born. As such, they should not be treated any differently because of it.
In all honesty, I think the concept of homosexuality is explored the right amount in games. A good example is the Sims series. Some things I can understand, such as same sex couples not being able to marry. This is most likely due not because of the game designers personal opinion, but more to avoid what would otherwise be an unavoidable media frenzy by religious nuts about how video games are brainwashing our kids into being gay. To the Sims series credit, they do allow for same sex couples to: engage in WooHoo (sex), adopt and have kids, and be treated equally in terms of not being judged by what gender their partner is. LGBT act and live lives that are exactly the same as a straight couples.
You can also choose to be gay or straight in Mass Effect, which I think again is done well. In order to actually get to that point, you must talk to your partner between every mission throughout the entire game. Even when you actually get to the point where you can have sex, they're usually somewhat nervous or awkward. This happens in both the straight and gay versions. The race that the main character can persue a relationship with regardless of gender is the Asari members of the crew and one human character, the crews psychologist. The Asari mate by not only contecting physically, but also mentally. This is a deeper relationship that the character can have than with their straight option counterparts.
(This is all from memory but I'm pretty sure that's accurate.
All in all, I think some games explore the concept of GLBT well, and most of the time people can handle it well. But then again, there's always Birdo...
. I do not think being GLBT is a choice, but the way the person is born. As such, they should not be treated any differently because of it.In all honesty, I think the concept of homosexuality is explored the right amount in games. A good example is the Sims series. Some things I can understand, such as same sex couples not being able to marry. This is most likely due not because of the game designers personal opinion, but more to avoid what would otherwise be an unavoidable media frenzy by religious nuts about how video games are brainwashing our kids into being gay. To the Sims series credit, they do allow for same sex couples to: engage in WooHoo (sex), adopt and have kids, and be treated equally in terms of not being judged by what gender their partner is. LGBT act and live lives that are exactly the same as a straight couples.
You can also choose to be gay or straight in Mass Effect, which I think again is done well. In order to actually get to that point, you must talk to your partner between every mission throughout the entire game. Even when you actually get to the point where you can have sex, they're usually somewhat nervous or awkward. This happens in both the straight and gay versions. The race that the main character can persue a relationship with regardless of gender is the Asari members of the crew and one human character, the crews psychologist. The Asari mate by not only contecting physically, but also mentally. This is a deeper relationship that the character can have than with their straight option counterparts.
(This is all from memory but I'm pretty sure that's accurate.
All in all, I think some games explore the concept of GLBT well, and most of the time people can handle it well. But then again, there's always Birdo...
Pretty much this.Thanatus1992 said:
Although to be fair there are too few examples in any medium of well written LGBT relationships. As a young, gay teenager there was nowhere to turn in games for me at the time. In fact, the only two positive homosexual relationships I saw growing up on TV were Willow and Tara in Buffy and a couple of characters in the third series of Skins.
I always felt gaming needs to try harder with its representation of gay characters. I think the only positive example is maybe FemShep in Mass Effect with Liara if that even counts because it's just a relationship but really I'd like to see something done with male characters or transgender characters.
Um, I'm a girl whose been with the same guy for five years. I'm happy in our sex life, and I want to have his children and spend the rest of my life with him. In short, I'm in love with him. But, that doesn't mean that I don't get really turned on by other girls sometimes, and I have fooled around with girls before. I can assure you I'm not "resisting the knowledge that I'm queer." And, let's be frank here, queer just means odd. I know I'm odd. I revel in my oddity. I'm also mostly straight. I don't think I could have a long term relationship with a woman, because that's not what I want out of life. But if I feel this way, I have NO DOUBT that there are true bisexuals out there. Just because you yourself have never considered yourself attracted to another member of your sex doesn't mean the rest of the world can't.Kanlic said:
OT: I'm all for more diversity in games, but again, I'd prefer it done tastefully and believably. But, I'm not sure that most AAA studios are ready to go in that direction when it's hard enough for find a relate-able female characters. Most girls in games are hyper-masculine ice-queens, eye candy with breast physics, or wilting flowers needing to be saved. I guess the best thing we can do is find the instances where they are doing it right, like Persona 4 and many of Bioware's titles, and through our support behind them. If games where these characters are present become lauded and, more importantly, make money, the rest of the industry will follow suit.