LGBT in Video Games

[Redweaver]

How about the radical idea that video games should just feature human beings?

I think that's exactly what the LGBT community are pushing for? After all, LGBT people are human beings, yet are surprisingly absent from video games in general. Much like... women without gravity-defying chests, men whose arms aren't as big as my legs, anime characters that are anything but that creamy shade of white...

Anyway.

Heterosexuality is constantly mashed in our faces in video games in general. We get it, Mario; you are attracted to Daisy! (or Peach? ...Both?) I just wish Nintendo wouldn't keep harping on about it. I mean, I like straight people. Some of my best friends are straight people. I just wish they'd stop rubbing my face in it! You're straight, all right! I get it!! Stop kissing in front of me! I don't wanna see that!

If there were more games where you have "Main_Character (who is, incidentally, gay)" rather than "Gay Main Character! He's Defined By His Gayness! He Will Charm You With His Spell of Lvl1 Flamboyancy Rainbow Ray", the overall perception of LGB's in the gaming community would be far more positive. (As I can't help but think that gay people have quite the, uh, negative image on the collective international consciousness. Can't for the life of me think why. I mean, it's only been, what, 2000(ish) years of oppression?)

Maybe if there weren't so many LGBT people who are flaming, in-your-face types...those stereotypes come from somewhere (cough)SanFranGayPrideParade(cough).

That implies that there is something wrong with those who consider themselves "flaming". After how many years of being constantly told that you are wrong, disgusting, sinful, and must hide away an aspect of yourself that you consider important, can you blame someone for wanting to dance it out on a parade float? Regardless, whether one is a "straight gay" or can "pass" without being discriminated should not be something to cheer for- it should be understood that some people want to parade their sexuality because we live in a society that wants the exact opposite of that, and there is nothing wrong with them wanting to act in such a way.

Then explain the folks who are obviously flaming without the rhinestone codpieces and ass-less chaps?

Need an example? Richard Simmons.

 

[warrcry13]

I'll tell you what I tell everyone who asks me this question in person or on the internet.

I couldn't care less what they are as long as they aren't an ass. I have two really good friends one is bisexual the other is transgender. That being said. I think being gay or lesbian (same thing I hate how it's split in society) are natural dead ends biologically incorrect. They are an aberration of nature. It is not natural. Do I care that they are gay? No I don't. If I like your personality I won't treat you any differently than I would any other friend. If I dislike you I won't treat you any differently from someone I dislike.

We are all people it doesn't matter if you are gay, bi, or transgender. Why should anyone be able to force someone into a lifestyle they don't want?

The only people in that group I can't stand are the ones who act superior than straight people.

Fun fact about my spell check it catches when i forget to add a space but when I accidentally put an 8 in the word should it was like nah man that's right keep doing what your doing. so it thinks shou8ld is a word

 

[Mister K]

I can not sat that I ever personally knew any of the mentioned categories, but my opinion is:
Being gay, lesbian or bisexual is fine with me (as long as gay guys don't try to make "moves" towards me), because it is their sexual prefference. Must I be disliked by other humans because I like black-haired women? Of course not.
I still think, that most humans must be straight, well, you know, so that kids would have both biological and mental connection to both of their parents.

Transgender though... *sigh*
Listen, my opinion is that if this person does not hide his/her state, then it's...well...managable.
But if this person, for the sake of example, lets call her Sam(born Samuel, now Samantha), meets a guy, a straight guy, and tells him that she women all the way, that means that she is LYING(yes LYING)to him in a very unrespectable manner. To make it simple, eventuall this guy will find out that he has been making out with another guy. In "already" female body, but still.
Imagine what kind of trauma the guy will get.

That is my opinon.

I'm a chick who thought she'd landed a butch woman, who turned out to be a man . . . it goes both ways! And if I could laugh it off, I think this hypothetical guy could too

Well, I never said that it didn't go both ways, but...
Listen, it's about trust, okay, if my soulmate lies to me in THAT fasion, then it makes me sad... Can't say that I already had such situation, but I think if that would have happened I would have been pissed at least.

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

I think it(LGBT stuff) should stay out of video games. I get enough of the stupid moralizing everywhere else in life, I don't need it from my games. I don't want to hear about how "they're no different from anyone else, they just like different things" or "people are born that way, they can't help it." It's old, tired, and I want it to just die.

I'm rather libertarian on this subject. I can live and let live. But I'm sick of the insanity I find on both sides of the aisle.

If it's specific to the story, I can let it slide. If it's just a propaganda piece about how all x are y, then go away. I don't want to hear a message of "tolerance" because the people you're preaching to are most likely already tolerating your stupid message.

It's fruitless and I don't like it.

 

[zehydra]

I don't mind LGBT themes or characters in games at all, but often I'll have difficulty relating to a character I'm playing if he/she is LGBT (or if at least the game's issue revolves around LGBT issues).

This is mainly because I've always been secure about my sexuality, and the idea of not being secure about my sexuality is very sort of... alien to me. I understand it happens to a lot of people, but I will always feel distant from that character in games.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

I'm writing a Essay in my Critical Thinking Class about how the LGBT(Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender) community is viewed by the gaming community. I want to hear my fellow gamer's opinion on the LGBT community. Let this be a open forum on your opinion. I want to hear what you all, be it negative, or positive, think about this topic. Feel free to get up your soap box, and get as preachy as you want, give your view on the LGBT community, as well as LGBT themes in video games. This Essay is suppose to be unbiased, so I need a wide range of opinions.

Well with anyone who associates themselves with a group, I don't want you to flaunt it in my face weather your Gay, Mormon, or pretty much anything under the sun. I think it is important to have your own voice, but all you are doing is screaming about it in my face. I got better things to do then be aware of your personal life. Anyways:

Being Strait is fine
Being gay/lesbian is fine
Bisexuality doesn't exist, it's just someone resisting the knowledge that they are queer.
Transsexuals have a mental disorder. I've never been sure why they were lumped in with the gay and lesbian community, but if you want to put a knife to your penis then you are fighting your natural biology.

That being said, I don't think we see enough of the LGBT community in games. Regardless of what people might think of them, they are still a large and divisive part of our community and they are something worth talking about.

The T in LGBT stands for Transgender, not Transsexual and there is a big difference between the two.

 

[Yureina]

Considering that I'm a member of that community (in theory. I almost never associate with other people in that community), I obviously am ok with people being LGBT on a personal level.

As far as games go, i'd be more than ok with seeing more LGBT characters in what I play. Especially the "T" part of that group, since you pretty much never see them and they are, frankly, among some of the most interesting people that I have ever met. But, in general I pretty much agree with what some others have said already in this thread: So long as they aren't ugly stereotypes, seeing more LGBT characters in games can only be a good thing. :3

 

[Handbag1992]

Snip.

It's called a stereotype, yes there are people that look and act that way but it doesn't mean we all do. It's like saying all Americans are fat, or all Asians are good at maths.

Or all old people are intolerant.... oops.

 

[TheDooD]

Being Strait is fine
Being gay/lesbian is fine
Bisexuality doesn't exist, it's just someone resisting the knowledge that they are queer.
Transsexuals have a mental disorder. I've never been sure why they were lumped in with the gay and lesbian community, but if you want to put a knife to your penis then you are fighting your natural biology.

That being said, I don't think we see enough of the LGBT community in games. Regardless of what people might think of them, they are still a large and divisive part of our community and they are something worth talking about.

Um, I'm a girl whose been with the same guy for five years. I'm happy in our sex life, and I want to have his children and spend the rest of my life with him. In short, I'm in love with him. But, that doesn't mean that I don't get really turned on by other girls sometimes, and I have fooled around with girls before. I can assure you I'm not "resisting the knowledge that I'm queer." And, let's be frank here, queer just means odd. I know I'm odd. I revel in my oddity. I'm also mostly straight. I don't think I could have a long term relationship with a woman, because that's not what I want out of life. But if I feel this way, I have NO DOUBT that there are true bisexuals out there. Just because you yourself have never considered yourself attracted to another member of your sex doesn't mean the rest of the world can't.


OT: I'm all for more diversity in games, but again, I'd prefer it done tastefully and believably. But, I'm not sure that most AAA studios are ready to go in that direction when it's hard enough for find a relate-able female characters. Most girls in games are hyper-masculine ice-queens, eye candy with breast physics, or wilting flowers needing to be saved. I guess the best thing we can do is find the instances where they are doing it right, like Persona 4 and many of Bioware's titles, and through our support behind them. If games where these characters are present become lauded and, more importantly, make money, the rest of the industry will follow suit.

The thing about in industry following suit is that the gaming industry will ride something until it's annoying to see. Which is something nobody wants, every game really doesn't need to deal with LGBT issues. I'll rather not deal with it since I want to play a game not deal with personal issue bullshit that'll get very old, very fast. It's something good for a game every now and then. Not something that should become an everyday thing.

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

As a bisexual male, I'll just say that the gaming community has a lot of growing up to do...whether that be in trying to tone done the rampant homophobia in online multiplayer, representing LGBT characters in a way that doesn't end up caricaturising them, it seems as though we've got a bit of a way ahead of us before we can bring the idea of an egalitarian community a bit closer to fruition. We're getting there, we're a young medium yet so I'm sure we'll see much better representations/treatment of LBGT to come, it's just going to be a bit of an uphill struggle.

 

[Macgyvercas]

I take the same view on gays and lesbians that I take on everyone else: As long as you're not an asshole, I don't have a problem with you.

 

[intheweeds]

How about the radical idea that video games should just feature human beings?

I think that's exactly what the LGBT community are pushing for? After all, LGBT people are human beings, yet are surprisingly absent from video games in general. Much like... women without gravity-defying chests, men whose arms aren't as big as my legs, anime characters that are anything but that creamy shade of white...

Anyway.

Heterosexuality is constantly mashed in our faces in video games in general. We get it, Mario; you are attracted to Daisy! (or Peach? ...Both?) I just wish Nintendo wouldn't keep harping on about it. I mean, I like straight people. Some of my best friends are straight people. I just wish they'd stop rubbing my face in it! You're straight, all right! I get it!! Stop kissing in front of me! I don't wanna see that!

If there were more games where you have "Main_Character (who is, incidentally, gay)" rather than "Gay Main Character! He's Defined By His Gayness! He Will Charm You With His Spell of Lvl1 Flamboyancy Rainbow Ray", the overall perception of LGB's in the gaming community would be far more positive. (As I can't help but think that gay people have quite the, uh, negative image on the collective international consciousness. Can't for the life of me think why. I mean, it's only been, what, 2000(ish) years of oppression?)

Maybe if there weren't so many LGBT people who are flaming, in-your-face types...those stereotypes come from somewhere (cough)SanFranGayPrideParade(cough).

That implies that there is something wrong with those who consider themselves "flaming". After how many years of being constantly told that you are wrong, disgusting, sinful, and must hide away an aspect of yourself that you consider important, can you blame someone for wanting to dance it out on a parade float? Regardless, whether one is a "straight gay" or can "pass" without being discriminated should not be something to cheer for- it should be understood that some people want to parade their sexuality because we live in a society that wants the exact opposite of that, and there is nothing wrong with them wanting to act in such a way.

Then explain the folks who are obviously flaming without the rhinestone codpieces and ass-less chaps?

Need an example? Richard Simmons.

Richard Simmons is an entertainer. That explains him. His fans enjoy his antics and so he plays to that. He does it FOR A LIVING.

I once worked with a guy who I assumed was gay for the longest time. He was slightly feminine in his speech and was very concerned with his appearance, etc. Even though I am gay myself, it turns out I was acting on the very same stereotypes you are. He was married and had been for many years. He was/is a straight man.

Even more recently I was working with a guy who is pretty stereotypically straight looking/acting. During the day the bosses nanny came in with his small child. This guy was great with her and afterwards when we were alone again he said to me that he would love to be a 'manny'. I asked him why he doesn't go for it since he is so good with kids and he said that he has a friend who is a nurse and all the guys make fun of him and call him gay and a woman so he's worried about that.

- That is to say, he's a straight guy who is worried and affected personally by the homophobia and sexism of guys like you.

I think my point should be clear. You simply cannot judge a person's sexuality by what they do or how they act.

I would also stress that I live in Toronto. We also have a very large gay pride parade. Here's the thing: ITS A PARADE. That's why the people in it are over the top and dressed up. Did you actually walk around at all during the event and see the stupendously large amount of normal looking people walking around dressed normally just enjoying the events? Did you actually look at the crowd at all? I mean you were obviously in it.

Edit: So now you have two good arguments: this guy above me telling you that how a person acts shouldn't matter anyway, and me telling you that how a person acts doesn't say anything about their sexuality.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Shadow Hearts:Covenant has you collect gay porn to give to a homosexual tailor couple who makes you dresses for an old, gepetto-ish lecherous oldman type, who plays dress-up with his animated marionette to give her(the marionette, who serves as his weapon) elemental attacks.

Theres just truckloads of innuendo and implied deviance in the game, though i never got halfway through it to see most of it =(

you missed 'the man festival' then, it was ... interesting, and it returned in 'from the new world' as well. the gay innuendo was so thick you could cut it with a knife.

that said though, it was all pretty 'flaming gay' not really the best representation imo. more GLBT characters would be fine, but I'd like them to be portrayed as more normal, like it's not the 'big deal' every one makes it out to be.

 

[Felstaff]

Do you really need me to list off every incident ever of an actual LGBT person being over-the-top with their sexuallity?

I suspect you're being deliberately obtuse to push an argument.

Nah, I'm being generally light-hearted on the situation. Pride parades are a lot of fun, for me. Vibrant colours, people being people. It's like any other carnival, really; an excuse to blow off steam and not feel pressured to conform to social trends. Anybody who pours scorn on other people's harmless fun I would consider being 'an old blow-hard'.

As for 'over the top with their sexuality', I would say that any LGBT person making you, personally, aware of their own pride at their sexuality is no different than someone sharing their heterosexual wedding photos on Facebook, or having their nuptials announced in the local paper, or updating their status to 'John McMan is now IN A RELATIONSHIP with Jane O'Female'. i.e. there is no case of being over-the-top, because if LGBT are 'over the top' in affiliating themselves with LGBT culture, then heterosexual people are being far more over-the-top by having their relationships advertised on your Facebooks or Googles or newspapers. The married ones even wear rings for the rest of their lives, which constantly shoves down your throat just how straight they are!!

 

[Worgen]

The only game I know of with a transgender char is Neir and I heard they really toned that down for the american release... although I'm not sure if she was a transgender or just had both sexes.

Actually Kaine is a young women who is Possessed by a male shade named Tyrann. So she's not a herm or a tranny

ahh, well its still closer to a transgender main char then most games let you get.

 

[Jimmybobjr]

Me?

Im against em.

Hate em.

I dont like gays. Dont like Lesbians. Dont like Bisexuals. Dont like Trangender.

thats my opinion. That is all im going to say.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

My views are do what you want to whomever you want, just do it in your own homes and don't see why LGBT people make such an issue of things and start their little agendas about making Bert and Ernie be gay and all this bullshit. Im the same with vegans and religious people as well, before people moan, do whatever you want, believe in what you want but quit with the preaching about it. Adding LGBT to a game for no reason isnt helping your cause. Would you want a half arsed gay character in a game or movie? Do you want a cliche of your sexuality or an actual character with history and depth and being gay is just who you are? You cant just add this to an original idea. Games, movies and books are what they are, someones idea. A creation. Cant just add stuff for the hell of it. Like i cant take a work of gay fiction and change all the gay people into straight people.

Also, being that LGBT people want to be accepted in society, what comes with accepting is no one will give a shit about you. Your now part of the scenery. Forgotten, no longer special or separate from society. Same with others supposed sidelined from society groups like Punks or Goths, no one cares once your accepted. For the most part no one is interested. Straight people want to watch romance about straight couples or stories and games about straight couples. Heroes rescuing the maiden. Why? Because we identify with that. We are not homophobic, we just dont identify with what you feel or fancy or love. A straight guy is not going to be interested in playing a game where he has to rescue a gay love interest. We play games we have fun playing, we watch movies and read books we enjoy. If the subject matter is one we dont have an interest in, we dont buy it. I have no interest in the whole "Black gangsta" crap so i dont buy them games or movies, doesnt make me racist, just that i dont care.

Now when it comes to game/film companies. They are a business. They are their to make money and make their goods for the masses, not the niche market. Most products wont be aimed at the LGBT market because it wont make them money. Get over it. Its business. Its a fact. Is not a personal attack, its just how it is. I just hate the issue of protesting about the lack of LGBT characters into games or movies as if their is some hidden anti-LGBT agenda in the entertainment industry. Their isn't. The parts have to be right, as is the stories and plot etc Why not write a novel, a script with an in-depth LGBT character that ISN'T characterized by their sexuality, and someone may take interest. But labeling yourselves as special because you are LGBT isnt the way to go, you are not special because you sleep with same sex person or had a sex change. Thats not what you should be aiming at. You should be aiming at the fact you are awesome as a person and your sexuality is a part of who you are, not what you are. Thats the issue. Ian MeKellen is an amazing actor, him being gay isn't what he is judged by. Same as Morgan Freeman is an amazing actor, him being black isn't an issue nor is what he is judged by. Both them two actors have the amazing ability to play any character in a film. Their colour or sexual preference doesn't come into it.

These things have to come naturally. You cant ***** and moan and force the issue and demand to be accepted. It wont work. Black people had a long hard fight to become accepted, and now they are some of the top sportsmen, actors and musicians of our age. Woman had the same issue and now the LGBT community. L&B part are, for the most part, accepted. Most people dont care apart from the obvious bigots. Me personally, i have a gay and lesbian aunt and uncle, so i dont care about that, its not an issue. Bisexual, i would like to know from my lover at the start of our date. As for Transgender, if it makes you happy, then fine. Im glad you are happy with life and yourself. But, to me, you will always be the gender you were born as. If you were born a man and had an operation to make a vagina and took pills to grow breasts and look feminine, you are still a man to me - will never want a relationship. As a friend, they are fine. Thing is people need to know this difference between anti-LGBT hatred (which is wrong) and lack of interest. Most people are happy that people are LGBT and can live their life happy and content and be themselves. We all want happiness after all. This is acceptance. But whether we want to watch or play a game or movie with an LGBT message or character....thats just personal opinion on what we like or find entertaining. I don't like movies involving rape or pedophilia of any kind, is that making me intolerant against the needs of rapists and pedos?

That last comment was maybe extreme. But you have to see things from all angles and not from a blinkered point of view.

 

[Aprilgold]

Well as a gay male gamer, I feel that the gaming medium has far too few positive homosexual characters. They tend to be overly flamboyant and their sexuality becomes their entire personality.
The exploration of Kanji's sexuality in Shin Megami Tensei 4 was fairly good, but I want a game that does to a gay character what metroid did for Samus, having their sexuality be merely a side note and not taking away from their badassery or relatability.

Now I remember why I like Arcade Gannon so much in Fallout New Vegas, him being gay is nothing because he still acts like you think a revenant would, he always felt like he had something more to him.

Now then, to make your question ultra simple, I'm going to split it in two, how developers treat gays in their game and how the Community treat gays over the matches online or whatever.

How do Developers treat Gays in their games:
This one is a toughy, mainly because we have had some good characters that were gay but did it correctly, I'm mainly pointing at, like the guy above me, Kanji from Shin Megami Tensei 4. Him being gay was not his character, and thats why he was so good. However, there are bad examples of this, usually, and I'm going to point at YOU GTA over this one, to where they have to resort to sterotyping to get the message across, both in the Gay Tony DLC and in the base Game, there is a gay man, in the Base, the character is Gerry, he is over the top fairy, and doesn't act like a person, we'll roll with it for a bit. Gerry is very much loud mouthed and very much high pitched, this is just a badly made character, who resorted to sterotypes to bring a character into a game instead of making a flesh and blood character.

Sadly, thats what it is right now, either sterotypes or well done, but its getting a little better. More or less likely you'll find more straight characters in games then anything else.
[sub] I only used gays in this example, but the case floats for the whole LGBT community within games.[/sub]

How does the Gaming Community treat Gays / LGBT Community over Online:

Wel[sub]lll...[/sub] Common place is that its a insult and since many times companies shove down their marketing towards straight teenagers you can kinda see how this works. They more or less use it as a insult, some may not care, but its one of those things to where you will have a higher chance of being called a guy specific insult instead of a woman one, again, Publishers push their audience as straight guys, and many times the fratty kind.
Anyways. The community doesn't really respect the LGBT guys and gals all that much, but then again, that just leads into the bigger issue overall with it.

That the society we live in doesn't respect LGBT as a thing. This is very blatantly obvious by that Westboro Church fellas or the fact that you can not marry anyone of your choosing.
This affects much of the gaming community like you think it would, its just blatant hate with no real force about it. I don't honestly care what someone over LAN thinks, but overall, not the community that sprung the insult, its the society that taught it.

I think it(LGBT stuff) should stay out of video games. I get enough of the stupid moralizing everywhere else in life, I don't need it from my games. I don't want to hear about how "they're no different from anyone else, they just like different things" or "people are born that way, they can't help it." It's old, tired, and I want it to just die.

I'm rather libertarian on this subject. I can live and let live. But I'm sick of the insanity I find on both sides of the aisle.

If it's specific to the story, I can let it slide. If it's just a propaganda piece about how all x are y, then go away. I don't want to hear a message of "tolerance" because the people you're preaching to are most likely already tolerating your stupid message.

It's fruitless and I don't like it.

I can say I agree, I don't like propaganda either, but these messages really wouldn't if the were just allowed to have freedom, and weren't told that their going to hell every day and that they are the spawn of satan. If we go through the looking glass its just as annoying as many games where 'YOU PLAY JOHN MC' BADASS, ALL WHITE, PERFECTLY STRAIGHT AND BADASS MAN FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM AGAINST THE NASTY RUSSIANS WHO HAVE MISSILES AND WANT TO KILL ALL THE LAND OF FREEDOM FOREVER! INCLUDING HIS WIFE AND SON! ON SATURDAYS, PRAY IN CHURCH TO UNLOCK GGOODDLLYY WEAPONS!!'

In a lot of ways, isn't that just as propagandaie as what you are talking about? What do you think?

 

[Grospoliner]

I am fine with homosexuality as long as they don't do stuff like this in public, mostly because it makes them look insane.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/gaypride-parade-sets-mainstream-acceptance-of-gays,351/