Linear games.

[NeutralDrow]

I am pretty sure most gamers will hate linear games, being told were to go and what to do, which is why I can understand games like GTA series, prototype and infamous are so popular.

I'm pretty sure most gamers aren't stupid enough to automatically dismiss at least 90% of all games ever made...

 

[DazZ.]

ok, I have never been to a party were they break out the console and the plastic guitar and drum set, maybe if you have 5 or 6 friends over and none of you can play any instrument then you could play rock band. Personally, a football tournament on fifa or something sounds more appealing (I don't even like football, let alone football games).

Have you played these games?

Fifa at a party is boring as hell, it requires too much thought, Guitar Hero you get pissed and jump around the room and if you aren't playing you have music and can drink and talk to the others. Can also laugh at whoever is singing with whatever accent they are trying to do or if they can even speak properly.

Guitar hero is a much better party game than Fifa.[hr]

There is still a difference between playing a game and an instrument.

Yes... no one has said they play Guitar Hero because they think it's an instrument.

I know I can't play any instruments, and don't really want to make a full time hobby of it. So, the Guitar Hero games simulate the sensation, allowing you to play your favorite songs cause you like them, and give you the rock star experience.

This guy put it well.

I know I can't play any instruments, and don't really want to make a full time hobby of it. So, the Guitar Hero games simulate the sensation, allowing you to play your favorite songs cause you like them, and give you the rock star experience.

All games have a huge difference between the game and real life, why is the fact there a difference between a controller and a real guitar relevant?[hr]

The point of the thread is for me to find out why these games are so popular and or fun, wen all they are is the definition of linear.

I just find the thought of being ordered to press buttons in a certain order at a certain time or be told I suck, to be depressing rather than fun.

You are over simplifying it to make it sound crap, I could say the thought of pressing buttons and making lights flash in front of me sounds dull (and it does), but that is all video games are. Buttons and flashy lights.

 

[Singularly Datarific]

Linear games HAVE TO HAVE A GOOD STORY OR A DECENT EXCUSE TO FORCE YOU ALONG A ROUTE. Half-Life and its relatives are lots of good fun because the incredible level design, along with solid stories and characters (Okay, just HL2 for that) keep you motivated to your cause. If it is a sandbox game that is supposedly "Free Roaming" it had better as hell have a non-linear story.

 

[omega 616]

ok, I have never been to a party were they break out the console and the plastic guitar and drum set, maybe if you have 5 or 6 friends over and none of you can play any instrument then you could play rock band. Personally, a football tournament on fifa or something sounds more appealing (I don't even like football, let alone football games).

Have you played these games?

Fifa at a party is boring as hell, it requires too much thought, Guitar Hero you get pissed and jump around the room and if you aren't playing you have music and can drink and talk to the others. Can also laugh at whoever is singing with whatever accent they are trying to do or if they can even speak properly.

Guitar hero is a much better party game than Fifa.[hr]

There is still a difference between playing a game and an instrument.

Yes... no one has said they play Guitar Hero because they think it's an instrument.

I know I can't play any instruments, and don't really want to make a full time hobby of it. So, the Guitar Hero games simulate the sensation, allowing you to play your favorite songs cause you like them, and give you the rock star experience.

This guy put it well.

I know I can't play any instruments, and don't really want to make a full time hobby of it. So, the Guitar Hero games simulate the sensation, allowing you to play your favorite songs cause you like them, and give you the rock star experience.

All games have a huge difference between the game and real life, why is the fact there a difference between a controller and a real guitar relevant?[hr]

The point of the thread is for me to find out why these games are so popular and or fun, wen all they are is the definition of linear.

I just find the thought of being ordered to press buttons in a certain order at a certain time or be told I suck, to be depressing rather than fun.

You are over simplifying it to make it sound crap, I could say the thought of pressing buttons and making lights flash in front of me sounds dull (and it does), but that is all video games are. Buttons and flashy lights.

I never said playing an instrument was like rock band, it was relating to "Because you have a plastic guitar in your hand and the "quick time events" are relevant and not "press X to roll out the way!" mid cut scene."

I would much rather play fifa cos it requires more thought and it is you against your friend were as rock band is you pressing buttons when it tells you to, it's the kind of game were your likely to do better in auto pilot mode.

It's only simulating the sensation of one part of playing a guitar, the pressing the strings bit, theres no hand movement.

Thats just how my mind works, I boil everything down to there bare facts and if it sounds good or fun I do it, if it sounds crap then it probably is.

 

[DazZ.]

I never said playing an instrument was like rock band, it was relating to "Because you have a plastic guitar in your hand and the "quick time events" are relevant and not "press X to roll out the way!" mid cut scene."

Playing a plastic guitar is much more realistic than moving my thumb slightly to do a commando roll

I would much rather play fifa cos it requires more thought and it is you against your friend were as rock band is you pressing buttons when it tells you to, it's the kind of game were your likely to do better in auto pilot mode.

I would prefer to play games that require thought as well, but not at a party full of non gamers who are the casual market, they really don't want to play Fifa, and this is a fun game for those types of people.

It's only simulating the sensation of one part of playing a guitar, the pressing the strings bit, theres no hand movement.

Now I know you haven't played Guitar Hero. This is totally the other way around, your fingers on the fret can be very quick moving and to get the slides down in most of the solos is fucking hard. The strumming however is nothing like a real guitar, it's easier for chords on a real guitar but easier for the solos on the controller (strumming, I find solos easier on a real guitar for the fret).

Thats just how my mind works, I boil everything down to there bare facts and if it sounds good or fun I do it, if it sounds crap then it probably is.

Then why do you play games if they are just buttons that move lights around? Could go be a crane operator and move concrete around whilst getting paid.

 

[omega 616]

I am pretty sure most gamers will hate linear games, being told were to go and what to do, which is why I can understand games like GTA series, prototype and infamous are so popular.

I'm pretty sure most gamers aren't stupid enough to automatically dismiss at least 90% of all games ever made...

I didn't say that, I said hate linear games. Thats putting words ... in my post.

I am pretty certain if a game came out and it's U.S.P was it had 1 million story lines (over exaggerating, I know) would you buy it over the next C.o.D (for example)?

The ultimate non-linear or a linear game?

 

[Trivun]

I prefer open world games, but linear games are fine too. I don't see why so many people hate them. Back in the old days of yore, almost all games were linear and we saw in those times some of the best games around. I started gaming with Crash Bandicoot and that was probably the very definition of linear. Even Mario and Sonic were linear. Personally, I want to see more open world gameplay (and not with invisible walls either, can't they do something like cliffs or use the actual environment to enclose levels? Something I intend to make a priority if I ever do make a careern in Level Design...). But that isn't to say there's anything wrong with linear gameplay. We grew up with it, after all, and why fix something that isn't broken?

 

[DrDeath3191]

I like linear games, personally. Sometimes it's good to know where exactly your objective is, how to get there, and simply traverse the given enviornment.

 

[DazZ.]

I am pretty certain if a game came out and it's U.S.P was it had 1 million story lines (over exaggerating, I know) would you buy it over the next C.o.D (for example)?

The ultimate non-linear or a linear game?

People don't make game choices based on whether or not it is linear. They chose it for the game type they find fun. (unless open world gametypes are what you find fun, then obviously that is what you will go for.)

Those adventure books where you turn to the page of the choice you make are non-linear whilst regular books aren't, but I sure as hell wouldn't read them over great novels.

Just because something has choices, doesn't make it awesome, it can make it much worse.

 

[NeutralDrow]

I am pretty sure most gamers will hate linear games, being told were to go and what to do, which is why I can understand games like GTA series, prototype and infamous are so popular.

I'm pretty sure most gamers aren't stupid enough to automatically dismiss at least 90% of all games ever made...

I didn't say that, I said hate linear games. Thats putting words ... in my post.

The bolded text says otherwise.

 

[omega 616]

I never said playing an instrument was like rock band, it was relating to "Because you have a plastic guitar in your hand and the "quick time events" are relevant and not "press X to roll out the way!" mid cut scene."

Playing a plastic guitar is much more realistic than moving my thumb slightly to do a commando roll

I would much rather play fifa cos it requires more thought and it is you against your friend were as rock band is you pressing buttons when it tells you to, it's the kind of game were your likely to do better in auto pilot mode.

I would prefer to play games that require thought as well, but not at a party full of non gamers who are the casual market, they really don't want to play Fifa, and this is a fun game for those types of people.

It's only simulating the sensation of one part of playing a guitar, the pressing the strings bit, theres no hand movement.

Now I know you haven't played Guitar Hero. This is totally the other way around, your fingers on the fret can be very quick moving and to get the slides down in most of the solos is fucking hard. The strumming however is nothing like a real guitar, it's easier for chords on a real guitar but easier for the solos on the controller (strumming, I find solos easier on a real guitar for the fret).

Thats just how my mind works, I boil everything down to there bare facts and if it sounds good or fun I do it, if it sounds crap then it probably is.

Then why do you play games if they are just buttons that move lights around? Could go be a crane operator and move concrete around whilst getting paid.

Ok, I don't know any games that have a commando roll so I'll just say prototype, it doesn't pretend to simulate a sensation or simulate playing a guitar, it is just a game.

That is tailoring the situation to suit your argument though, if we had a 10 hardcore gamers over I think they might prefer C.O.D:MW2 over rock band.

I said are they so popular cos of casual gamers and somebody shot down that point. (Et3rnalLegend64's post).

I did say I hadn't played them, I would much rather buy a guitar and be proud that I mastery a song rather than I some how manged to fluke some song on a game on a really hard difficulty.
You could even be romantic with that skill, hardly any girls are going to find beating a song on rock band attractive.

Most games offer a story and the chance to be something or somebody else, to do things I can't. I've used this game a few times before in this thread so in prototype I am a person who can change there appearance, run up walls etc. I find out why this is happening and who I am then I can press eject and put in a different game and I am somebody else.

Rock band (from what I have seen) has no real story (maybe you start out as nothing and become the next queen or something) and the gameplay is a long Q.T.E.

At the moment I'd happily be a crane operator!

 

[omega 616]

I am pretty sure most gamers will hate linear games, being told were to go and what to do, which is why I can understand games like GTA series, prototype and infamous are so popular.

I'm pretty sure most gamers aren't stupid enough to automatically dismiss at least 90% of all games ever made...

I didn't say that, I said hate linear games. Thats putting words ... in my post.

The bolded text says otherwise.

I said hate, not dismiss.

Linear games aren't bad if they're epic. Modern Warfare 2 and Half-life 2 are great examples of this. Both have very linear campaigns, and both are phenomenal.

Maybe hate was a strong word.

Take MW2, would that have been better if there was a secondary storyline? For instance, the infamous scene, you have the choice to shoot or not, if you shoot them then you swap sides and become a terrorist. If you choose not to shoot you remain on the side you started off with. Would that have made the game better?

I am pretty certain if a game came out and it's U.S.P was it had 1 million story lines (over exaggerating, I know) would you buy it over the next C.o.D (for example)?

The ultimate non-linear or a linear game?

People don't make game choices based on whether or not it is linear. They chose it for the game type they find fun. (unless open world gametypes are what you find fun, then obviously that is what you will go for.)

Those adventure books where you turn to the page of the choice you make are non-linear whilst regular books aren't, but I sure as hell wouldn't read them over great novels.

Just because something has choices, doesn't make it awesome, it can make it much worse.

I think theres a bit of a difference between books and games though. Books are just for the story, games are for alot more.

 

[Thaius]

...why do you think that free roaming games can't deliver the same quality of story telling that a linear game can have?

Because non-linearity, by principle, hands story control over to the player. It's incredibly difficult to create a story that will be good regardless of what choices the player makes: it's possible, but incredibly difficult.

In a linear game, on the other hand, the creator can tell a story that will be good regardless of the actions of the player.

Really though, non-linearity is simply an illusion. No matter how much control we think we have over the events of a game's story, we are simply choosing which pre-set, designed path to follow. We are not doing anything new, simply choosing what to do out of the options given to us by the developer. There is nothing wrong with that, but it usually does not allow for good storytelling in the same way that a more linear game would, because the story is split across many different paths.

Is it possible to tell a good non-linear interactive story? Yes, it is. But it takes a lot of work and is incredibly difficult. So until that happens, linearity will be better at telling stories.

Linear come from the Latin word ... well I am not sure what word but it means straight lines so a linear story would be one that goes in a totally straight line, so it isn't an illusion. What about games that have a good ending or a bad ending such as fallout 3, just off the top of my head, the last scene "do you send the girl in to die or do you die".

But the thing is, no matter which one you choose, you are still following a path set out by the creator. For instance, in Bioshock, when you have to choose whether to save or harvest the little sisters, whether you get the good or bad ending, it is still an ending designed by the developers. You did not blaze your own trail, you did not decide the fate of Rapture, you simply chose from a couple set possibilities. I'm not saying this makes games with multiple story paths actually linear, but I am saying that there is no such thing as true freedom within a game: it is simply an illusion caused by the effect that in-game choices have on which path the story takes. No matter which path you take, you are still on a path.

 

[DazZ.]

Ok, I don't know any games that have a commando roll so I'll just say prototype, it doesn't pretend to simulate a sensation or simulate playing a guitar, it is just a game.

I was thinking of the bits in Resident Evil mid cutscene where you have to press a button to move out the way even though you are watching a clip. A "quicktime event" that you said that's all Guitar Hero is just one big quicktime event. It was mentioned because quicktime events usually take away from the game immersion whilst it doesn't with GH.

That is tailoring the situation to suit your argument though, if we had a 10 hardcore gamers over I think they might prefer C.O.D:MW2 over rock band.

Obviously, but then the party would just turn into a game session, if we were actually having a party I would prefer GH even with my hardcore gamer friends because it is better for the occasion.

I said are they so popular cos of casual gamers and somebody shot down that point. (Et3rnalLegend64's post).

People who aren't usually interested in games are going to look at this not in the same light as other games. They are going to be intrigued by it's gimmick and more likely to pick it up over other games they wouldn't glance twice at.

But it still boils down to preference, which is where you are failing to see from other peoples point of view and not see at all why anyone could find what the game offers to be fun.

I did say I hadn't played them,

Then don't use them in an example. You shouldn't talk about things you have no clue about

I would much rather buy a guitar and be proud that I mastery a song rather than I some how manged to fluke some song on a game on a really hard difficulty.
You could even be romantic with that skill, hardly any girls are going to find beating a song on rock band attractive.

As would I, and as I have done. Other people however wouldn't. Maybe they aren't interested in the amount of effort it takes to learn an instrument, and just want to play something like it. I don't want to put all the money and effort into surgery to turn into a dolphin to swim and explore the seas, I will still play Echo.

Most games offer a story and the chance to be something or somebody else, to do things I can't. I've used this game a few times before in this thread so in prototype I am a person who can change there appearance, run up walls etc. I find out why this is happening and who I am then I can press eject and put in a different game and I am somebody else.

Games don't need a story to be fun, I don't look to games for a gripping tale, I look to them for interactive entertainment. I fucking love Pacman (to the point that he's tattooed on me), I don't give a crap what it is about.

Rock band (from what I have seen) has no real story (maybe you start out as nothing and become the next queen or something) and the gameplay is a long Q.T.E.

You haven't played it, you don't know fuck all about the gameplay.

At the moment I'd happily be a crane operator!

So would I... so would I.

Edit:

People don't make game choices based on whether or not it is linear. They chose it for the game type they find fun. (unless open world gametypes are what you find fun, then obviously that is what you will go for.)

Just because something has choices, doesn't make it awesome, it can make it much worse.

Acknowledge that without the book analogy.

 

[omega 616]

But the thing is, no matter which one you choose, you are still following a path set out by the creator. For instance, in Bioshock, when you have to choose whether to save or harvest the little sisters, whether you get the good or bad ending, it is still an ending designed by the developers. You did not blaze your own trail, you did not decide the fate of Rapture, you simply chose from a couple set possibilities. I'm not saying this makes games with multiple story paths actually linear, but I am saying that there is no such thing as true freedom within a game: it is simply an illusion caused by the effect that in-game choices have on which path the story takes. No matter which path you take, you are still on a path.

Then surely the word linear is meaningless? Games can longer be described as sandbox or linear, since everything is linear.

I was defining linear as being one story and the game walls decide were you go.

Sandbox as a massive lump of land, were you can veer off the main story and do what you like for a bit before carrying on with the story (or a story).

 

[Noone From Nowhere]

While I prefer videogames that are more non-linear, I will give linear videogames credit for being one of the only means of maintaining a rigid narrative while still remaining a game of some sort.
Do boardgames have a story? No, there isn't even really room to shoehorn them in.

On the other side of that, the only truly completely non-linear games have no story at all (though they might have a situational set-up), making them effectively video board games or pen-and-paper RPGs.

Some peope don't want to have to write a novel everytime they want to play a game. I can respect that.

 

[NeutralDrow]

I am pretty sure most gamers will hate linear games, being told were to go and what to do, which is why I can understand games like GTA series, prototype and infamous are so popular.

I'm pretty sure most gamers aren't stupid enough to automatically dismiss at least 90% of all games ever made...

I didn't say that, I said hate linear games. Thats putting words ... in my post.

The bolded text says otherwise.

I said hate, not dismiss.

They're about the same thing in this context. You're complaining because your original sentiment was stronger?

 

[Thaius]

But the thing is, no matter which one you choose, you are still following a path set out by the creator. For instance, in Bioshock, when you have to choose whether to save or harvest the little sisters, whether you get the good or bad ending, it is still an ending designed by the developers. You did not blaze your own trail, you did not decide the fate of Rapture, you simply chose from a couple set possibilities. I'm not saying this makes games with multiple story paths actually linear, but I am saying that there is no such thing as true freedom within a game: it is simply an illusion caused by the effect that in-game choices have on which path the story takes. No matter which path you take, you are still on a path.

Then surely the word linear is meaningless? Games can longer be described as sandbox or linear, since everything is linear.

I was defining linear as being one story and the game walls decide were you go.

Sandbox as a massive lump of land, were you can veer off the main story and do what you like for a bit before carrying on with the story (or a story).

I was more making an observation than actually saying that all games are linear: as I said, "I'm not saying this makes games with multiple story paths actually linear, but I am saying that there is no such thing as true freedom within a game." It was a bit of a tangent, but a related one if you know what I mean. Understanding this concept helps with understanding why linear game stories tend to be better, because a lot of people don't properly understand that non-linear games still guide us along a story, even if we do have some choices as to which one we follow. If you get that, it's easier to understand why it's harder to make a good story along those lines.

 

[RnAoDm]

Most are commenting they like linear games, which is fine (kind of off topic though) but why do you think that free roaming games can't deliver the same quality of story telling that a linear game can have?

Linear games often force you through the plot and so you are always with a sense of the story. Free roaming games can feel like a tv series that puts out a new episode each week with filler episodes. Sure these are interesting but breaking up the story with non related things can make the initial story have a weaker impact when it finally continues.