Literature - Ressurected (Fair warning of spoilers)

[Anachronism]

I thought Granny was ok. I don't really know why, but she always annoyed me slightly as a character. Probably due to the abuse of "wossname" to describe pretty much everything she talked about. I agree with you about Rincewind, though; he is a fantastic character. I liked Moist von Lipwig as well, for a lot of the same reasons I liked Rincewind: largely for the fact that they're both massive cowards.

No love for Sam Vimes, though? As far as well-rounded characters go, he's definitely one of, if not the best in the series. I will always have a soft spot for Detritus, though. Got to love the Piecemaker.

As far as favourite books go, as I said before, Going Postal is definitely up there. Night Watch is one of my favourites too. I didn't particularly enjoy Equal Rites, though. I'm not really sure why; I think it's just that I don't particularly enjoy novels where the main character is a child, particularly when they're of the extremely dense variety that Esk was.

 

[iain62a]

(snip)

Triple post?

That's an impressive feat.

Anyway, this is the sort of thread that we should see more of, so I'm going to post again.
Imma bumping this thread.
So yes, The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck.

The Grapes of Wrath is a novel by John Steinbeck about the struggles of a depression era Oklahoman farming family, the Joads. They're evicted from their land in Oklahoma, and are forced to leave. They migrate to California, as they've been told that there's work a-plenty there. However, there is very little work to go round, as everybody who was thrown off their land in the midwest also migrated. The government refuses to support them, and thousands of the migrants starve.

The book centres on Tom Joad, the second eldest son of the family, and it charts his development as a person throughout the course of the novel, with the help of his mentor, Jim Casy.

The family encounters terrible hardships, death, hunger, anguish, heartbreak; and even love. It's an inspirational display of the resilience of the human spirit, and its ability to develop, in spite of, and sometimes because of these circumstances. It's a really great book - definitely Steinbeck's best.

Really great book.

 

[Jumping_Over_Fences]

I just finished reading House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielewski and I must say I enjoyed it very much. In fact, the only reason I read the book was because it was mentioned several times on another thread. The reason I bring up this novel is because it had one of my favorite themes in any type of artistic medium (okay, so theme is the wrong word, more like idea). For those of you who did not read the book, you may not wish to continue, I may give too much away.

Spoiler: Read at Your Own Risk

I love that there is no explaination to why this is happening. We never find out exactly what the house was, what it wanted, or, for that matter, what the entire point of the story was (sure you could say love story and that was an element, but really that was just secondary to the house). It just starts with the strange house and then the house is gone.

Stories that have this type of ending are really interesting to me. They really leave you thinking. Wanting more almost, but you know that more would be too much and they, unlike most, decided on the logical ending point, not adding an unnecessary ending. Too many novels drag out the endings. Okay, so the appendixes were a little unnecessary, but they were not part of the story as a whole.

I like turning the last page of my book looking for more chapters. I did the same thing when I read Severance Package by Duane Swierczynski. Although the last page of his book left me a lot like his main character. I know I yelled when there was no more pages left.

 

[pigeon_of_doom]

Any thread with so much Pratchett discussion deserves a bump. I think his peak was Night Watch, although I haven't read Nation yet and I have an obsessive love of Sam Vimes. His more recent books haven't filled me with much confidence in his recent work.

Need to get round to reading some Rushdie. Midnight's Children arrived the other day, will hopefully read that in the next few months. Need to read House of Leaves too but I have a reading list as big as I am (6ft3).

I agree with everyone saying how good 1984 and Clockwork Orange are. Hard work reading Clockwork Orange though.

definitely Steinbeck's best.

Have you read Of Mice and Men and East of Eden? I prefer those two to Grapes by quite some distance.


I haven't actually been reading much recently. Read Batman: Year One last week when I wasn't doing anything. Started reading Kafka on the Shore, looks interesting so far (two chapters in) despite my distrust of translated works. May post my thoughts on it if this thread is still going whenever I finish it.

 

[Merteg]

Literature is a high art, and I've not noticed it dying.

More on topic, anyone like books by Terry Goodkind or Jonathon Stroud?

 

[iain62a]

definitely Steinbeck's best.

Have you read Of Mice and Men and East of Eden? I prefer those two to Grapes by quite some distance.

I've read Of Mice and Men, but I haven't read East of Eden.

I'll have to read it at some point.

 

[pigeon_of_doom]

I haven't read East of Eden.

I'll have to read it at some point.

I really enjoyed it. It got a bit of a bad press for being too sentimental when it got released, but I don't take notice of what critics have to say now, never mind what ones thought nearly sixty years ago. They have a point, but that's part of the reason I enjoyed it so much. Steinbeck regarded it as something like his Magnum Opus.

 

[iain62a]

I haven't read East of Eden.

I'll have to read it at some point.

I really enjoyed it. It got a bit of a bad press for being too sentimental when it got released, but I don't take notice of what critics have to say now, never mind what ones thought nearly sixty years ago. They have a point, but that's part of the reason I enjoyed it so much. Steinbeck regarded it as something like his Magnum Opus.

Fair enough.

I'll look for it in the library then.

 

[Labyrinth]

I'm going to stick in 1984 by George Orwell.

I loved this. It is well written and I find it quite a joy to read. Each character is defined by his or her actions, a symbol of something (such as the washerwoman prole), and relations to the totalitarian nature of their society. They act in different ways, reacting to situations according to their own close-held ideals, whether they be the ones installed by the Party or ones brought about through their own conclusions.

Newspeak is also a fascinating idea. The thought that it is possible to restrict human thought and capacity by all-but eradicating any hint of seditious language has always been to me a thing of amoral genius. The true tool of dictatorial governments. Once society had regressed to such a point, there would be little or no need for policing anything other than the language, which would naturally fall to the Thought Police and Minitrue

One thing which has come up in friendly discussion regarding 1984 is the depressing nature of the book itself. How this is such a bad thing, I don't understand. While it is a negative outlook, the fact that it can make one react in such an emotional way, in empathy with the story, is just another sign of the power of the writing. Then again I'm biased as someone with a loathing of most happy endings, unless they're very well written and that's just outright rare.

Recommended, and read it alongside Animal Farm (Orwell) and Brave New World (Huxley).

 

[Clashero]

I'm going to stick in 1984 by George Orwell.

I loved this. It is well written and I find it quite a joy to read. Each character is defined by his or her actions, a symbol of something (such as the washerwoman prole), and relations to the totalitarian nature of their society. They act in different ways, reacting to situations according to their own close-held ideals, whether they be the ones installed by the Party or ones brought about through their own conclusions.

Newspeak is also a fascinating idea. The thought that it is possible to restrict human thought and capacity by all-but eradicating any hint of seditious language has always been to me a thing of amoral genius. The true tool of dictatorial governments. Once society had regressed to such a point, there would be little or no need for policing anything other than the language, which would naturally fall to the Thought Police and Minitrue

One thing which has come up in friendly discussion regarding 1984 is the depressing nature of the book itself. How this is such a bad thing, I don't understand. While it is a negative outlook, the fact that it can make one react in such an emotional way, in empathy with the story, is just another sign of the power of the writing. Then again I'm biased as someone with a loathing of most happy endings, unless they're very well written and that's just outright rare.

Recommended, and read it alongside Animal Farm (Orwell) and Brave New World (Huxley).

1984 is definitely one of my top 5 novels of all time. I remember finishing the book while riding the train. It was so emotionally strong that I set the book down and stared into it for long while, even missing my stop and having to pay for a new ticket back home. It really made me realize the meaning of all my freedoms and how grateful I should feel for them.
And Newspeak is the best fictional language. To think that the Gov't can eradicate oppository thoughts by making it impossible to express them in words is genius.

Brave New World was much too short. I wish Huxley had gone a bit more in depth about how society worked as a whole. The most interesting parts of the books were the ones in which they described the social stratus. The idea of giving a cell more oxygen so that it became a superior human, as well as only coming from one egg, whereas as many as 70-something Epsilons (lowest class) could come from one egg was terrifying, but a stroke a genius nonetheless.

 

[Labyrinth]

Brave New World was much too short. I wish Huxley had gone a bit more in depth about how society worked as a whole. The most interesting parts of the books were the ones in which they described the social stratus. The idea of giving a cell more oxygen so that it became a superior human, as well as only coming from one egg, whereas as many as 70-something Epsilons (lowest class) could come from one egg was terrifying, but a stroke a genius nonetheless.

I like the fact that he demonstrated a clear research background and innovative thinking into reproductive technology. The pre-conditioning thing also brings up enormous questions in the fields of neuro-psychology and sociology as to exactly how we function after we've left the womb.

 

[Clashero]

Brave New World was much too short. I wish Huxley had gone a bit more in depth about how society worked as a whole. The most interesting parts of the books were the ones in which they described the social stratus. The idea of giving a cell more oxygen so that it became a superior human, as well as only coming from one egg, whereas as many as 70-something Epsilons (lowest class) could come from one egg was terrifying, but a stroke a genius nonetheless.

I like the fact that he demonstrated a clear research background and innovative thinking into reproductive technology. The pre-conditioning thing also brings up enormous questions in the fields of neuro-psychology and sociology as to exactly how we function after we've left the womb.

Very very true, especially considering how old that book is. Honestly, it it had been released today, his reproductive/conditioning theories would still be quite original and even plausible.

 

[Labyrinth]

Very very true, especially considering how old that book is. Honestly, it it had been released today, his reproductive/conditioning theories would still be quite original and even plausible.

I'm not so sure, I mean we've realised that we can create identical twins by splitting a zygote, or even multiple twins which could be considered clones. This kind of thing is certainly post-Huxley. Just as research into the impacts of in-utero chemicals lead to the banning of Thalidomide (in that case it was an isomer issue, when the molecule is a mirror image of what is needed.) it's also getting to the point of indicating that certain things can lead to a healthier child.

 

[Clashero]

Very very true, especially considering how old that book is. Honestly, it it had been released today, his reproductive/conditioning theories would still be quite original and even plausible.

I'm not so sure, I mean we've realised that we can create identical twins by splitting a zygote, or even multiple twins which could be considered clones. This kind of thing is certainly post-Huxley. Just as research into the impacts of in-utero chemicals lead to the banning of Thalidomide (in that case it was an isomer issue, when the molecule is a mirror image of what is needed.) it's also getting to the point of indicating that certain things can lead to a healthier child.

I'm going to bed soon, 23:18 here, so I'll make sure to research a bit about it first and then reply properly (if I reply now it'll probably be something a bit uninformed that doesn't contribute much).
Fun talking to you ^^

 

[elricik]

I just finished "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy and now am on "A Canticle for Lebowitz."

 

[Labyrinth]

No love for Sam Vimes, though? As far as well-rounded characters go, he's definitely one of, if not the best in the series. I will always have a soft spot for Detritus, though. Got to love the Piecemaker.

As far as favourite books go, as I said before, Going Postal is definitely up there. Night Watch is one of my favourites too. I didn't particularly enjoy Equal Rites, though. I'm not really sure why; I think it's just that I don't particularly enjoy novels where the main character is a child, particularly when they're of the extremely dense variety that Esk was.

Oh well, I like Vimes alot. He's probably 5th on my list (CMOT Dibbler is probably #4 lol - or Ridcully [wiz]) But he just wasn't as dynamic as the other characters, it seemed to me. His plots came through his navigating the city, and dealing with social issues (i guess he's pratchet's tool for when he wants to write that kind of novel) as opposed to stuff like Rincewind's trip to the upside-down dragon mount...

I also didn't think Equal Rights was so hot. It took me a while to read it, I hardly remember the ending anymore. I think the best Weatherwax book was either Carpe Jugulum or Lords and Ladies. Both dealt with ideas of social outcasts/social rank divides, and I think that's something that suits Granny as she is a character who transcends and neutralises said class rifts.

I feel it's about time to mention The Sweeper and Susan. They've got to be two of my favourite characters, Lu Tze because he's just so funny and Susan well.. who doesn't love the badass teacher who just happens to be Death's granddaughter? Hell, I'd be her if I could for the hell of it.