Looking at Diablo III as it's own game.

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SciMal

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Nautical Honors Society said:
I feel as though a lot of the hate just comes from the DRM stuff and people's past perception of the Diablo series.

But when looked at as it's own game...Diablo III is quite impressive.

Agree? Disagree? General thoughts?
I disagree.

The DRM for a single player game is ridiculous to me. Setting aside the argument that high-speed internet isn't available to all Americans (about 20% in rural areas don't have a single option), requiring an internet connection for the single-player portion defeats the purpose of the single-player aspect. If I'm interested in the SP, it's probably because I'll need something to do while separated from my friends - like while traveling, when internet isn't guaranteed.

Regardless of the DRM, I'm still not impressed. I look at it and all I see is WoW (or WC3, depending on where you think the art style really began). It's my biggest beef with Blizzard ever since I quit WoW after BC came out: They're not trying anymore. Oh, they'll pay some artist to spend a week making one of the most awesome paintings of a character ever imagined - but then in-game that character is some cartoonish, blocky bull-shit with a color pallette straight out of a 6th grade crayon box. I can't stand it anymore (the same way I'm getting so fucking sick of the Unreal engine for FPS games). Blizzard(Activision) has simply stopped moving forward with their graphics and style. I know why they did it - it's easier to identify enemies and keep track of party members if everything is vibrant and the environment is the water-color look (which makes it easy to ignore in battle), but the environments really suffer for it - and not once did the graphics designer argue that the environments could be dark/gritty while the character models could be vibrant.

Character customization is lacking. Period. Not only aren't there reasons to have several different characters of the same class to try out different builds, but taking away player choice in stat distribution is something I'll ever regret. Yes, before you understand the mechanics of the game, you can be pretty poor at distributing stats (though every recent game has some form of point-reset), but it also takes away the "fuck-it, let's see if a Barbarian can go ranged" builds. For instance, in ME3's multiplayer I just finished making a Krogan Sentinel who does nothing but beat the ever-loving shit out of stuff on Bronze. That's the character's entire purpose; shits 'n giggles, and it is extremely fun to play. Can't do much of that with D3.

The auction house isn't something I'm interested in. It is eBay with the caveat that what you're buying isn't tangible, and actually buying items for a video game with real money never made any sense to me - though I'm not offended if people want to do so.

Bnet isn't as good as it should be. Why can friends jump into your game (whether you want them to or not) by default? Why does Bnet 2.0+ seem little more than an Achievements tracker with an IM built in instead of a place to play other people? Etc.

The story is on the high-end of "Average" for fantasy games. Blizzard hasn't ever been good at tightly-woven, intricate plots; "Generic Fantasy done pretty good" describes everything they've ever written to a 'T.' However, even for Blizzard, D3's story seems lacking. You start in Tristram (again), meet up with Deckard Cain (whose voice actor clearly isn't taking the game seriously), and end up fighting Diablo as the end boss (for the third time in the series). There are bits inbetween, but the first time was exciting. The second time felt like a good return. The third time feels like Blizzard is playing too safe. Yeah, there are a few twists (and one half-decent twist), but overall it reeks of "more of the same in the hopes of getting the same level of success."

It just doesn't feel like a sequel should. Not one made 10 years after the previous. It feels like the one which could have come out in 2005. The style is slightly different and the graphics are improved, yeah, but Blizzard's desire for the game to be able to run on machines built when John Kerry was a candidate means I'm not seeing my character as a "Diablo" character, but rather as a "Blizzard Generic Class #9" character. Looking at the class-selection screen is like looking at a Diablo Mod for WoW. The story has been tread - twice by Blizzard themselves. It's not new, it's not engaging, and relies too heavily on glitz of the cinematics to obscure the fact that the same story could be had for $3 out of your B&N bargain bin. The character customization is a step backwards. I enjoy the idea of being able to modify a single spell in a dozen different ways, but it's not a replacement for the rush you get at level up and deciding how your character progresses.

Also, the destructable portions of the environment are gimmicky, and little else.

So, yeah, I'm not buying a copy for myself. It's not all bad. The combat (and gameplay in general) is very fluid, and they've obviously spent a lot of time refining many of the UI components and systems. Blizzard has done what they do best - take other ideas and polish them to a mirror shine to present to the public. However, in this case it was their own IP that they stole from and proceeded polish in some funky cloning experiment or incestuous relationship with itself, making all their good aspects shine - but all their bad aspects stand out like a sore thumb.

It just doesn't feel like Diablo. It feels like "Diablo - as presented by Blizzard-Activision, the famous creators of WoW and SC2!"

Claim nostalgia goggles and whatever counter-arguments you want, but I think Blizzard is suffering from being too internal. They're taking their position in the market for granted, just like BioWare does with RPGs. Sure, people will play Diablo III - but many will be playing it because it's a Blizzard game, not because it's Diablo III.
 

Lunar Templar

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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
i do believe i've found the dividing factor here.

i will not, under any circumstances be PvPing. only games i PvP in, are fighters, and the PC hasn't gotten Blazblue or Guilty Gear yet so i don't even do that. i kinda have no love for PvP

i was speaking strictly about PvE.

o.o? what nerf to the monk? you mean it's supposed to be good?
 

BENZOOKA

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Oct 26, 2009
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It's amazing.

And I look at it after playing and loving Diablo II. And liking Titan Quest afterwards. And with really high expectations.
 

Emiscary

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Yeah stuff looks alot better when you assume it exists in a vacuum. If the only movie I had ever seen was: "The Phantom Menace" I'd probably fucking love it. Sadly I've seen movies like ALIENS and Predator and the original Star Wars triology- so the Phantom Menace looks like shit.

Same principle holds true of D3.

"It's like D2 but with worse everything and obscene DRM."
 

Lunar Templar

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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Mmmh. Fair enough. I guess the whole thing wont effect PvE all that much... At all really. I still prefer skill trees, even in single player, but each to his own.
i can see the appeal of a skill tree, but most the ones i've seen had me dumping to much into crap. though, i do like Titan Quests skill tree x.x so much good stuff .... need more points ....

ah, that kinda sucks, but understandable, as that did sound a bit game breaking. (and holy crap that's Beliel? awesome >:) can't wait to kill it)

and lastly. good luck on finishing Nightmare :)
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Lunar Templar said:
gmaverick019 said:
Lunar Templar said:
i prefer a 'wait and see' due to the game not even being out a week yet, and if the average gamer is like me. they aren't very far yet (I'm at, or near the end of act 2 and at lvl 24 at the highest, and i explore every square inch of map space), so 'end game farming' isn't on any ones mind yet.

cept the REALLY hard core players that have been blazing through it >.>
i think you highly highly underestimate most of blizzards fanbase and koreans...

i have multiple friends who have already put in 50+ hours...so yeah -_-...
LOL, that is EXTREMELY likely

since Diablo 3 is basically my first Blizzard game.

also, i don't count Koreans in that, factoring in that 99.99% of the F2P MMOs that come out of there are dull grind-a-thons >.>

Requiem could a been awesome if there was a point to it .....
here is a nice video showing average persons reaction to video games, to blizzard/korean reactions

enjoy:


serious business is serious!
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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I like it, despite a few bugs and DRM issues, the game is solid and plays well for me. My wife and I have found our new bonding experience and D3 actually has helped us through a small rough patch in our life. So, in reality I have to say thank you to Blizz, Diablo 3 has helped my marriage rather than hurt it. We love the game, we love playing together and we are happy that it came when it did.
I don't think anything anyone could say could change our opinion of Diablo 3. To us, its worth every penny.
 

The Human Torch

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Well, seeing as (at the time of writing), Diablo 3 is unplayable because the servers are down, due to some kind of issue, I can safely say: fuck you Blizzard, for forcing this upon us.
I am not playing an MMO, I want to play my singleplayer campaign. This should not happen.

Hate how this is destroying any enjoyment I have of Diablo 3.
 

Therumancer

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Nautical Honors Society said:
I've never played Diablo I or II, but I picked up three out of general interest...

...it's awesome.

I have no idea what all the complaining is about, and I like always being online, it makes multiplayer a breeze. Also, there are like no loading screen, I am always fighting, always playing, and never waiting.

This game is constant mindless fun.

I feel as though a lot of the hate just comes from the DRM stuff and people's past perception of the Diablo series.

But when looked at as it's own game...Diablo III is quite impressive.

Agree? Disagree? General thoughts?

I played the Diablo III beta, but my Collector's Edition is lost in the mists of Amazon.com ordering sicne somehow they messed up my release day delivery. It should be here tomorrow (Monday) as a result I am lightyears behind everyone, but am fairly familiar with the game.

That said, my basic opinion is that Diablo III is a good game, it's just not a groundbreaking one. Blizzard went for accessibility as opposed to catering to the serious gamers that made the first two Diablo games an obsession. Their inspiration seems to be coming from games like Torchlight and the like.

On it's own merits, it does what it set out to do perfectly, and it's better than other casual dungeon looters out there. It however does not innovate much as anything, and doesn't improve on what other games rivaling them for the hardcore action-RPG title like Sacred 2 or to an extent Borderlands (despite it's differant view) were able to do. I was hoping for something like "Sacred 2" with a lot of the features I wished were there present, and Blizzard's high level of polish and bug squashing, and that is not what it was.

That said, Diablo 3 deserves the crown for the moment as it IS better than any game of the same type in recent memory, none of which were doing what the other "open world" action RPGs were doing either. It IS better than Torchlight, Dungeon Hunters, Dungeon Siege III, and other similar games on the market right now. Torchlight II is not out yet, but I honestly can't see it competing with Diablo III's polish and production values.

I utterly loathe always on DRM, and the cash auction house idea. When it comes to the latter I do confess to wanting to see it in action out of morbid curiousity however. The DRM is annoying, but they did pretty much the same thing with "Starcraft II" and in this case I suppose the multiplayer aspect of the game can justify it a bit more than games which are more of a dedicated single player experience like "Assasin's Creed".

I also look back at Blizzard's old "Blizzscore" plans which have yet to materialize (and might have been scrapped). The idea as I originally heard it was for Battlenet to track all of your acheivements from Blizzard games like WoW, Starcraft II, and Diablo III, and unlock content in their various games based on overall milestones in point accumulation, as opposed to the score being entirely for shaking your E-peen. If they still have any pretensions in this direction, linking this game so heavily into Battle.net and wanting to keep careful track of how that score is accumulated DOES make a degree of sense.

As far as the artwork goes, I have to admit it is differant, but as a fan of the old "Planescape" RPG setting, I kind of like the artwork as it reminds me of it (I am talking more about the PnP version, than the "Torment" video game). The atmosphere is grim, and the monsters are still nasty. I guess it's more cartoony and surreal than before, but if they are going for a more casual audience, I guess that's to be expected.

In short, I agree that it's a solid game, but I also have to say that it has a lot of problems. I think a lot of the criticisms are unfair, and sometimes misinformed (or at least not considering the big picture). Like "Fallout 3" I'd prefer if it did not have the Diablo name/lore attached to it because of the differances.

I imagine it will hold my attention when I get in the mood for this kind of thing, until someone comes up with a better version, growing from things like "Sacred" rather than Diablo. Diablo 3 is a good game, but I can't say it's the action-RPG to beat or emulate anymore. Diablo III's mos impressive accomplishment is that it managed to go casual, without totally sucking to real gamers, even if it's a shadow of what it should have been. Basically Blizzard can take what should objectively be crap when you look at the components (no open world, simplified characters, no more potions, changed art style) and still make it decent. Diablo III is not a game for the ages, but it will be top of the heap for a little while, until something better in the same genere comes along... which it will, because I don't think this is going to spark the same level of fanaticism that Diablo II did as it no longer has that kind of potential.
 

endnuen

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Its flippin' awesome. Been having so much fun playing with friends and doing so is easy.
A few serverside lagg spikes aside it works fine, Hardcore is super exciting!
 

CAPTCHA

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I've got some issues with the game as it stands:

Item farming, the supposed heart an soul of the game, is pointless and dull. Every item is basiclly the same, just with a different set of randomised variables drawn from a very limited pool. This result in no items having any real personality, and by extension not giving me any satifaction in finding them. As it stand at the moment I find a 'rare', check if it has STR, VIT or DPS that's higher than what I already have. If it has I use it for a few levels. If not it gets sent to the vender. This is even true of Legendary items which are often not as good as items I already have except for a bit of flavor text in the discription.

This article explaines the design decision:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/tv6pr/a_psa_about_loot_and_you_why_youre_not_seeing_the/
 

Fidelias

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Well, I've never played Diablo 1 or 2. I've never even seen any gameplay videos for the games. I bought this game without any prior knowledge other than a few gameplay trailers (bad things happen to my credit card when I get bored...) So here's my take.

It's pretty good, but it could be a whole lot better.

Don't get me wrong, it's fun to play. I love my Demon Huntress and using dual crossbows to dodge around and obliterate the enemy. And the game brings back fond memmories of the Lord of the Rings Gameboy advance games (which I loved). It's cool watching for some awesomely named item to fall out of the skewered head of some monster... but...

One thing is the fact that you can't choose a higher difficulty until you beat the game on the previous difficulty. Meaning, you have to play Normal to get to Nightmare and Nightmare to get to Hell, and so on and so forth. Which is incredibly stupid given that this game emphasizes graphics and gameplay, rather than the story.
I LIKE my games easy, and normal is waaaay too easy even for me!

There really isn't much of a story, or characters. The whole world feels bland because of this. It would be one thing if there were some kind of story-telling excuse for this. Maybe throw us in in the MIDDLE of the demon apocalypse, rather than the start of it. But instead everything is supposed to be somewhat worn-down, yet mostly workable (in New Tristam anyways). Why don't we see more civilians fleeing for their lives? Why don't we encounter any random adventurers who supposedly make their living trying to find relics? It feels like the entire storyline is just an excuse to make us go from one town or shrine to the next, which, knowing Blizzard, is almost certainly true.

So, it's a fun game that I'll definitely be playing, but it's not going to be something that I'll be playing a year from now, or even continuously. Just a fun game to pop in and play without having to use your head too much. Wait for the price to come down, then decide whether it's worth a buy.
 

Turtleboy1017

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Elamdri said:
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Jmp_man said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible to turn off the "auto-distribute" for skills? Also, the auction house will soon be overrun with gold farmers and power levelers so that's true.
I don't think there is, and even if you could, it wouldn't matter. Theres no skill tree.
Correct. Your character has

2 Mouse skill slots bound to Mouse 1 and Mouse 2. These are your "Bread n' Butter"

4 Action bar skills bound to 1, 2, 3, and 4. These are your cooldown powers.

3 Passive ability slots.

now within each slots are a number of skill choices that you unlock as you level.

For example, for Mouse 1, the Barbarian has the choice of Bash, Cleave or Frenzy. He must pick one of those skills to be bound to Mouse 1.

Likewise for each action bar slot, you have a choice of between 3-4 powers that fit the theme of that action bar slot, but you must pick one of those 3-4 powers for that slot.

The passives give you a lot to chose from, but you only get to pick 3.

Ultimately, how you specialize your character is:

A: What skills you pick for each slot and

B: What runes you use for each skill.

It isn't like Diablo 2 where you could sink a BUNCH of points into one skill and make it better. Instead, all your abilities scale with your gear and instead it's up to your skill and rune decisions to diversify.
Incorrect, actually. There's an option in the gameplay tab when you're changing settings to make the hotbar completely customizable. You still only get 6 skills to use, but they can be from the same "category". So if I have a demon hunter with the summon ally skill, I could bind one key to summon a spider, and bind the key right next to it to summon a sentry instead, which is from the same power class as the summon companion skill.

And I love Diablo 3. It accurately captures the looting and hack and slash that made D2 so enjoyable for me, and I find the always on DRM is an almost nonexistent hassle. I know, I know, not everyone has great internet, but truth be told, in today's day and age, the number of people NOT connected is extremely small. It also helps keep out any modded single player items, which I vividly remember popping up in D2 quite frequently. I honestly feel like the hate for Diablo 3 is based on very shaky grounds. If you dismiss the DRM issue, it all comes down to preference, and too many people are thinking its okay to say that "colorful graphics" is an instant negative for a game.

I just don't get that.
 

tautologico

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I wasn't a big fan of Diablo, but I'm enjoying D3 a lot. For me it's better than D2 in almost any way (except for the small hiccups you get because of the need to be constantly connected, but these are a minor problem now).

And though I do understand the criticism and what people don't like about it, I have a feeling most people criticizing D3 didn't really play it, or didn't play it much. It's always safe to hate and complain about what's popular.

I'll try Torchlight 2 but unless it's a major improvement over the first, I doubt I'll find it better than D3. Diablo 3 is much better than the first Torchlight, and I don't care if it's not cool to not side with the indies :)
 

Kungfu_Teddybear

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Nautical Honors Society said:
I've never played Diablo I or II, but I picked up three out of general interest...

...it's awesome.

I have no idea what all the complaining is about, and I like always being online, it makes multiplayer a breeze. Also, there are like no loading screen, I am always fighting, always playing, and never waiting.

This game is constant mindless fun.

I feel as though a lot of the hate just comes from the DRM stuff and people's past perception of the Diablo series.

But when looked at as it's own game...Diablo III is quite impressive.

Agree? Disagree? General thoughts?
I'm in the same boat as you, I have never played any of the Diablo games. Although I am loving Diablo III and I've spent the majority of my time playing it since it's release. I have nothing against it always being online, the only time I get annoyed at that is when the servers go down for maintenance and I can no longer play.
 

Abedeus

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Devoneaux said:
StriderShinryu said:
Nautical Honors Society said:
StriderShinryu said:
Tough to say because I can't look at it as it's own game. Besides it's other noted issues, the part that gets to me specifically is that it just really doesn't sound like it does anything to advance the gameplay of the genre at all from where it was in the time of Diablo 2. Diablo 3 may be all shiny and new, but I can get a similar (and in some ways better) experience in a number of other places for a fraction of the price and without any of the built in hassles.

Diablo 3 may look nice in a vacuum.. but so do many games. That's the point of there being competition.

Well then don't compare it to the prequels, compare it to other similar games...like Torchlight, which Diablo 3 is far superior to.
I actually have, and Diablo 3 still disappoints. I can buy Torchlight 1 for $15 and get a comparable single player experience without the Diablo 3 specific hassbles. I could also wait a couple months for Torchlight 2 and get a likely largely better experience for only $20 (and get Torchlight 1 free to play now if I didn't already have it). Diablo 3 isn't bad by any means, but it just doesn't seem to offer much when compared to either it's contemporary competition or even games from 10 years previous.
That's because they went the George Lucas route and tried to appeal to as wide an audience as possible. Let's face it, complex character building and dark fantasy are very niche in comparison to the colorful but bland experience we got. Then again, I suppose the way they responded to fans of the second one was probably for the worst.
Ah, the good old ignorant "Complex character building". Guess how complex D2 was.

1. Pick enough Str/Dex for items. Max Vitality. Ignore Energy, no class needs it late-game.
2. If you make a single mistake (prior to last patch), you are fucked. After new patch, you can redistribute skills 3 times at most.
3. Pick one Left Click Ability. For instance Sorceress: Fireball, Frozen Glacier, Lightening.
4. Pick one Right Click Ability: Meteor, Blizzard/Frozen Orb, Chain Lightening.
5. Pick the staple things. Teleport, Mana Shield (rarely), one of frost shields, Warmth, both shouts for Barbarian, one main aura for Paladin..
6. Max synergies.

There we go. And now, you have 6 skills to use at any time (and you WILL need 6 of them), runes (each skill has 5 runes to modify the skill to your needs), and you can either maximize damage by picking your class' chosen attribute, max Vitality/Str/Int to build more tanky, or mix a bit of this and that.

There is MORE customization than in D2. Frankly, on Hell difficulty there really was a handful of builds that could work. And now, a lot work. Some better, some worse, but there are very few cookie cutter builds that guarantee to work (the closest I've seen is Monk with Serenity, Blinding Flash, Mantra of Healing, Lightening Fists, Tempest Rush, Water Ally) and even on Inferno you have to try very hard. And you can't rely on your merc tanking for you everything you can't kill by yourself.
 

Lunar Templar

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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Shit dude, I totally forgot it contains spoilers. I added a spoiler tag now but sorry for spoiling the boss fight without warning, although you don't seem to mind that much :p
hehe, mind? good sir, you show my a boss 2 stories tall and i automatically wanna kill it >:3 call it, motivation to get there, which, i was apparently when i logged off last night


gmaverick019 said:
serious business is serious!
o.o so it seems, holy crap ...