Man Flips Off the Police Then Sues

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ace_of_something

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Sep 19, 2008
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blalien said:
ace_of_something said:
Intentionally inflammatory gestures and statements are NOT covered by free speech.
While there are restrictions on free speech, more recent Supreme Court decisions have ruled that free speech includes other forms of expression, including inflammatory gestures. Read up on Texas v. Johnson and United States v. Eichman. The cases are about flag burning in particular, but the justices' statements set a precedent for these kinds of situations.

Like it or not, what the guy did was legal. Don't take my word for it. Find a lawyer friend and ask him yourself.
I am aware of those cases. Flag desecration is NOT the same as inflammatory speech or fighting words (which is what we're talking about here). Most lawmakers put protest speech in to a different category all together. This guy was not making a formal protest or even an informal protest. The two cases you mention are not relevant to this situation they do not mention inflammatory speech or fighting words.
I have seen people charged with fighting words as recently as a month ago. (the actual charge is disorderly conduct misdemeanor)

I talk to lawyers almost every single day, brah. I intend to show this to one of them this video for a topic of conversation if we have time. I am interested in a DA's opinion.
(I'm aware we're on the internets and me saying anything about my knowledge on the subject holds about as much weight as saying "i'm king of the moon" but nonetheless)
Also, speech that occurs during the commission of another crime is not protected. So we got that on this as well, I'm sure one of the two tickets was for reckless driving.
 

blalien

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Jul 3, 2009
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ace_of_something said:
I'm sure one of the two tickets was for reckless driving.
No argument there. It's not like he magically gets off for the crimes he did commit.
 

Robert0288

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Jun 10, 2008
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Depends, did he get the tickets for the finger, or did the officer then notices 2 things that where ticketable offences after he attracted attention to himself.
 

Loki424

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Dec 30, 2008
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I haven't ready every reply to this topic (since it's 5 pages long) but I keep seeing the same assumptions being made. So, I'm sorry if I'm bringing up points that were already discussed.

1) It never says in the video that the guy flipped off the cop completely out of the blue. The video starts mid-sentence as he's saying "...so I gave him the finger for it". This implies the officer did something to instigate the initial gesture. On the other hand, the man says he frequently flips off deputies as he drives, so the fact that the officer did something this time could be irrelevant.

2) The video doesn't say exactly what the tickets were for. In the shot of the affidavit mentioned a lack of probable cause. This implies that he got tickets for something unrelated to flipping off the cop, but they only found the infraction because they pulled him over for the gesture. It's also possible that one ticket is for the gesture, and the other is for an unrelated infraction.

3) The US constitution does protect free speech in a very broad manner. However, different states (down all the way to the *county* level) can have different ordinances that restrict it. For instance, in some areas it is illegal to swear. While these laws are clearly unconstitutional, they are so rarely enforced that it never becomes an issue. It's possible that this man's gesture was in direct violation of an obscure state law or county ordinance that was only enforced because he "poked the bear". If it's determined by a higher court to be unconstitutional, than the ordinance is likely to be repealed.

4) The man is not suing for any set amount of money. It's also possible to not sue for cash at all. For instance, he can sue to have the tickets voided, which is the most likely outcome if he actually wins.

I'm aware that many people on this site are not US citizens, so maybe this seems like an odd conflict to have...the guy disrespected a cop, so he should be punished for it. In America, however, every citizen has the right to say whatever crazy crap they want as long as it isn't slanderous, nor does it direct others to violate the law (you can't go on national TV and call some random person a child molester, then tell everyone to lynch them). There are also a very few phrases specifically forbidden by federal law.

My point is, flipping off a police officer *is* protected speech, as long as he wasn't following the cop around to do so (at which point it can be argued that it's harassment). The assertion that a hand gesture isn't technically speech is bogus. Free speech pertains to all forms of communication...otherwise the government would be able to block the internet the same as China does. If you want to argue that flipping the bird isn't communication, then what's the officer so angry about? If the man wasn't trying to communicate something, then it's simply an extended finger, and there's nothing offensive about fingers.
 

Carlston

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Apr 8, 2008
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Sorry freedom of speech is also regulated by a certain laws that monitor obsenity. So chuckles here needs to understand what his right is.

Honestly the cop should have ticketed him for not having control of the vehicle, or both hands on the wheel. Because that little law is in every state and chubs there deserves it.

BTW you always hear about suing, and awarding of millions. Never when in Arbitration the judge throws out the award because it doesn't suit the damage incurred. Best he can get is 50 bucks and his park validated. But not even enough to cover his lawyer.
 

Latinidiot

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Feb 19, 2009
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you can't offend a policeman in uniform, because you offend the police itself, and not the person.
 

JoshGod

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Aug 31, 2009
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so he fliped them off for no reason?
i miss sterilisation, if it wasnt for hitler it may have continued.
 

Tiny116

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May 6, 2009
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TheNumber1Zero said:
I could've swore that you could technically give a Policeman the Birdie and get no 'Official' punishment.
Of course that was something I heard off-hand...

Either way, I hope he loses.

Notice how he only got 2 Tickets for 3 Birds?
Perhaps they tolerate one and punish more?? XD

And he should pay the tickets.
 

W00T777

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Mar 7, 2010
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I think you would think before flipping the guy off, at least saying, "Hm, I think I could get in TROUBLE for flipping off these perfectly sensible police officers."
 

Chipperz

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Apr 27, 2009
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LordNue said:
I hope he wins. I just hate the idea that you're not allowed to look sideways at the police without them giving you a ticket or something when they constantly run red lights without being in a chase or doing anything important, turn on their sirens to get into the McDonalds drive through, damn near run people off the road just because they don't feel like driving in traffic like a normal fucking human being. Sure their job is dangerous, it means jack shit. If they're great people I'll respect them, if they're a dick I sure as hell don't want to be forced to respect them.
If anything like that happens, take a quick video on your phone and complain. Make sure you get their number plate.

For what it's worth, I still think if this guy somehow wins his case, he should have the crap beaten out of him by an off-duty cop and then be left with a phone with 911 already put on the screen, just so the cops know to let him bleed for a bit before they respond.
 

GLo Jones

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Feb 13, 2010
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I expect he would've complained just as much if the cop had responded by flipping him off rather than pulling him over.
 

Mcface

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Aug 30, 2009
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Demented Teddy said:
If he succesfully sues them then that will give me another reason to hate democracy.
He deserved those tickets.
So he shouldn't be allowed to show his dislike towards someone, just because they wear a uniform? Sure, it's silly. But it starts with this, then you are ticketed for talking down your government/leaders. it's a slippery slope.