Man Flips Off the Police Then Sues

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Wicky_42

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Sep 15, 2008
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Loki424 said:
I haven't ready every reply to this topic (since it's 5 pages long) but I keep seeing the same assumptions being made. So, I'm sorry if I'm bringing up points that were already discussed.

1) It never says in the video that the guy flipped off the cop completely out of the blue. The video starts mid-sentence as he's saying "...so I gave him the finger for it". This implies the officer did something to instigate the initial gesture. On the other hand, the man says he frequently flips off deputies as he drives, so the fact that the officer did something this time could be irrelevant.

2) The video doesn't say exactly what the tickets were for. In the shot of the affidavit mentioned a lack of probable cause. This implies that he got tickets for something unrelated to flipping off the cop, but they only found the infraction because they pulled him over for the gesture. It's also possible that one ticket is for the gesture, and the other is for an unrelated infraction.

3) The US constitution does protect free speech in a very broad manner. However, different states (down all the way to the *county* level) can have different ordinances that restrict it. For instance, in some areas it is illegal to swear. While these laws are clearly unconstitutional, they are so rarely enforced that it never becomes an issue. It's possible that this man's gesture was in direct violation of an obscure state law or county ordinance that was only enforced because he "poked the bear". If it's determined by a higher court to be unconstitutional, than the ordinance is likely to be repealed.

4) The man is not suing for any set amount of money. It's also possible to not sue for cash at all. For instance, he can sue to have the tickets voided, which is the most likely outcome if he actually wins.

I'm aware that many people on this site are not US citizens, so maybe this seems like an odd conflict to have...the guy disrespected a cop, so he should be punished for it. In America, however, every citizen has the right to say whatever crazy crap they want as long as it isn't slanderous, nor does it direct others to violate the law (you can't go on national TV and call some random person a child molester, then tell everyone to lynch them). There are also a very few phrases specifically forbidden by federal law.

My point is, flipping off a police officer *is* protected speech, as long as he wasn't following the cop around to do so (at which point it can be argued that it's harassment). The assertion that a hand gesture isn't technically speech is bogus. Free speech pertains to all forms of communication...otherwise the government would be able to block the internet the same as China does. If you want to argue that flipping the bird isn't communication, then what's the officer so angry about? If the man wasn't trying to communicate something, then it's simply an extended finger, and there's nothing offensive about fingers.
Man makes good points - better thought out than three quarters of the reactionary macho bullshit on here (you know - "two tickets is too good for him", "beat him up - he deserves it", "yay - fuck free speech", "death would be too good for him, people should just be executed for saying things I disagree with" etc etc).

Until details of this incident are revealed - real motivation for the tickets, previous transgressions on either side, the claim the guy's suing for - I'm reserving judgement. It's very easy to point fingers when you know next to nothing.
 

jad4400

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Jun 12, 2008
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Update* I found a small article on the KATU website and it looks like Ekas did flip off the officers out of the blue and he claims that the two tickets he was given was the officers retaliation. Ekas also says that a case in Pittsburgh, where a man did somting similar to this and won $50,000 inspired Ekas to file a similar lawsuit.

http://clackamas.katu.com/content/man-flips-police-bird-then-sues-when-he-gets-ticketed
 

Ghonzor

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Kuchinawa212 said:
Ghonzor said:
Kuchinawa212 said:
*faceplam*
I can't even believe this. I really can't. Maybe if I don't think it happened it'll go away
If only it worked that way...if only.
AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH

it was working! I just forgot all about it, but now that you quoted me I had to remember it again
Bwa ha ha, then my plan worked.
 

The3rdEye

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Mar 19, 2009
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If it were a just world:

"The Court awards Mr. Ekas... a boot to the head. The constitution allows you a freedom of speech and self expression, but does not protect you when those actions are of a disruptive or offensive nature, which were clearly your intentions."

What will likely happen:

"We found this unspent funding in the chief's drawer. I'm going to put this money on the table and turn away and when I turn back you will both be gone."

What kills me is; if this guy repeatedly flipped off some random person on the street and was laid out for it, he would probably still ***** and sue for infringements upon his rights. Of course, the court would probably fine or levy some other punishment against the physical assailant, but would throw out the lawsuit charge. This is just another desperate cash grab, because he knew it's in the station's best interests to have it swept under the table as quickly as possible. His claims fall apart after he makes the statement "I'm not labeling all cops bad, I'm saying the institution is bad" after saying that "... (in regards to the reason for the tickets) the real issue here is that I challenged his authority, that I had the audacity as a nobody, as a citizen swine, to challenge the police". And of course there's the obligatory reference to 'Oh, my brother's a cop so obviously I have no real problems with them'.

It times like this when it's really hard not to wish ill on other people.
 

JackyJack

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Mar 7, 2010
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It's the movement of a hand into a certain shape...How on Earth is that suppose to be offensive? And SO offensive that you get a ticket for it?

Someone gives me the finger. Ooooooooo...That somehow makes me angry.
 

Loki424

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Dec 30, 2008
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If you flip off a random person repeatedly, and they physically assault you, then they are in the wrong. It's wrong in civilized society to respond to words or "obscene gestures" with violence. That's how children settle disputes.

Likewise, someone in an earlier post mentioned that free speech doesn't protect someone shouting racial slurs...in actuality, it does. The KKK is still allowed to march despite being universally reviled, ditto for Neo-Nazis and other manners of douchebag. As much as I despise those sorts of groups, I'm honestly glad that even they are allowed to speak.

If we were to outlaw such speech, then the obvious question is "Who decides what's vulgar?". For instance, most people would agree that "Fuck" is a swear word, but what about "Jesus Christ!", or "AHHH!"? If I bash my shin on a piece of furniture, I'm equally likely to shout any one of those things. The context and intent is the same, so why would one be acceptable and another not?


@Wicky_42: Thanks, whenever I type out long message board replies, I tend to get drowned in 'tl:dr', so it's nice to know someone read one for a change.
 

Datalord

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Oct 9, 2008
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I think this even tops "Diet Water" in the level of human insanity involved.
Not the guy, the attention
Sure the guy flipped off a cop, big deal, he has his rights, the cop has his duties, life goes on

Where's Wonko the Sane when you need him?
 

Sir_Tor

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Nov 29, 2009
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So he wants total fucking anarchy?
And some wonder why the world belive that all americans are stupid...
 

Arcane Azmadi

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jad4400 said:
Update* I found a small article on the KATU website and it looks like Ekas did flip off the officers out of the blue and he claims that the two tickets he was given was the officers retaliation. Ekas also says that a case in Pittsburgh, where a man did somting similar to this and won $50,000 inspired Ekas to file a similar lawsuit.
In other words, he's just admitted publically that this entire action is a fraud scheme. He should be jailed.

Loki424 said:
Likewise, someone in an earlier post mentioned that free speech doesn't protect someone shouting racial slurs...in actuality, it does. The KKK is still allowed to march despite being universally reviled, ditto for Neo-Nazis and other manners of douchebag. As much as I despise those sorts of groups, I'm honestly glad that even they are allowed to speak.
Here's your fucking problem. Free speech is overrated.
 

AngloDoom

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Aug 2, 2008
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If the police-officer raised his finger back at him, he'd have sued him for that too. No, this guy is clearly after money or attention. Probably both.

I don't the man was given two tickets for three birds. I'd imagine something else happened to warrant them. While I agree that it is an incredibly minor thing to do, I also believe some people need to have consequences for their actions. If he did this repeatedly solely to antagonise the officer, then he should receive a warning. He is not expression himself, he is antagonising the officer. If after that warning he continues, then he should receive a ticket. He is not exercising some power, he is not protesting against the power of the police, he's annoyed that he didn't get away with something he does on a regular basis.

If you repeatedly raise you middle-finger at someone besides an officer, you'd probably end up in a fight. This man knows the police can not and should not respond with violence and now he's throwing a tantrum because a consequence occurred that he didn't suss-out before he went about throwing insults.
 

Yopaz

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Jun 3, 2009
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Demented Teddy said:
If he succesfully sues them then that will give me another reason to hate democracy.
He deserved those tickets.
Uhm... if you had a dictator he would have been executed on the spot, is that better?

All the reasons to sue someone in USA makes me proud of being European. Well, here it's almost impossible to win a lawsuit against a doctor if he accidentally performed an operation you weren't supposed to have or give you the wrong medications for years almost killing you. If there were some middle ground we could make it work I think...
 

gigastrike

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Jul 13, 2008
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Not sure if this is ticket-worthy. The guy definatly has to drop his attitude regarding police, but I'm not sure if he actually did anything illegal.
 

Yopaz

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Jun 3, 2009
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Demented Teddy said:
Yopaz said:
Demented Teddy said:
If he succesfully sues them then that will give me another reason to hate democracy.
He deserved those tickets.
Uhm... if you had a dictator he would have been executed on the spot, is that better?
That is bull!
Authoritarianism is not the stereoptype it is represented as in movies and video games!
He would just have no chance of sueing succesfully and would have still gotten tickets for flipping the cop off.
Yeah, I might have exaggerated that a bit, but then again, have you heard about Dawit Isaak from Eritrea who's been in jail for 9 years because he was fighting for freedom of speech? Not executed, but the chances are good that he will be, and North Korea is almost as bad.