Marines posed with Nazi SS symbol in Afghanistan

[Thistlehart]

The men in this photograph are claiming that the "SS" on the flag means "Sniper Scout". Many have pointed out that it appears to (or NOT "APPEARS"! "IS" GLARBARBL!) be the flag for the Nazi SS.

Y'know, I think there might be something more to this. Now, I don't know much about the Marines beyond their stereotype; however, I would like to posit this possibility.

Perhaps the marines in this photo knew what this flag was and intended to use it to make a point. Snipers are some of the most fearsome and highly trained soldiers operating in the field today. I would not put it past these men to think of taking an old, fear-inspiring symbol from 70 years ago and turning into something to represent themselves.

They're not saying "we are like the SS, herp derp." They are trying to say, "This doesn't belong to them anymore. They're dead. We claim this symbol now. Fear us."

I wouldn't put it past marines to make loud "I've got a great-big tonker!" statement. And this looks like one of those.

Symbols can change their meaning over time. Maybe that's what they are trying to do.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

Eh, it's just a symbol, a pretty badass, wicked cool symbol at that. The Nazi Schutzstaffel were bad, the symbol is not. But people will get offended over any little trivial thing. I remember when using the Swastika was a cool and okay thing to do, then some asshole uses it, and suddenly it's not okay because it'll offend people.

It's not just a symbol. It's a hate symbol. Regardless of the way it's being used.

Because the Nazi Schutzstaffel used the double-s lightning bolts as their symbol, it's naive, short-sighted, and self-centered to say, "I just think it looks cool," or "I'm not a racist, and I'm not using it to promote racism, so people shouldn't be offended."

No person is an island. I don't believe that a person should be stopped from displaying whatever symbols they choose, for whatever reasons they choose, but it's silly to say "people shouldn't be offended and shouldn't assume that I'm racist because of the symbol I display" when you display the Schutzstaffel symbol, or the swastika, or even the Confederate Flag for that matter.

Symbols are socially-constructed. All of those things have been used as hate symbols. Therefore, they symbolize hate, regardless of what they mean to you personally.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I blame that goshdarned rock and roll music.

 

[Woodsey]

Hmm.

I wouldn't have recognised that - at all - and I wouldn't say its especially unlikely that none of them would recognise it. (Bear in mind, I've not been out of high school long, which means I'd have covered the Nazis approximately 50 billion times in the past few years.)

Although it does beg the question of where the hell they bought it.

 

[revjor]

Well, as has been stated, Kiss uses the exact same symbol in their band name, so they must have thought it was cool, I find it looks interesting.

But then again I generally liked the nazi uniforms, they looked rather badass, even if they were evil douchebags.

Ace Frehley didn't do it on purpose. Before one of their shows they decided to change their name to KISS so Frehley ran out and drew the new name over the poster with their old band name. He wanted S-es that looked like lightning bolts and ended up with the SS symbol without realizing the Nazi connection. When they toured Germany in 79-80 they caused a minor political controversy. Ever since then this is their German logo:

Apparently Germans also prefer lighter shades of purple.

 

[Orange12345]

Hard to say, I seriously doubt anyone could be stupid enough to not know what a ss symbol means and pose in front for a photo.

Out of 10-11 people (11 if there was a camera guy or 10 with a tripod) not ONE knew what that symbol meant, I find that hard to believe.

But then again if they knew why in the hell would they do it.

 

[Veylon]

They're not saying "we are like the SS, herp derp." They are trying to say, "This doesn't belong to them anymore. They're dead. We claim this symbol now. Fear us."

I wouldn't put it past marines to make loud "I've got a great-big tonker!" statement. And this looks like one of those.

Symbols can change their meaning over time. Maybe that's what they are trying to do.

This is the only valid reason I'd accept. I'm half of the mind that soldiers who go through a campaign to defeat an enemy country should get a medal with that country's ruling party's insignia on it.

However, is that what the Marines are saying? Afraid not...

From the article [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46329740/ns/us_news/t/marines-posed-nazi-ss-symbol-afghanistan/#.TzfEeMVSQdR]:

The Marines believed the SS symbol was meant to represent sniper scouts and never intended to be associated with a racist organization, said Maj. Gabrielle Chapin, a spokeswoman at Camp Pendleton, where the Marines were based.

"I don't believe that the Marines involved would have ever used any type of symbol associated the Nazi Germany military criminal organization that committed mass atrocities in WWII," Chapin said. "It's not within who we are as Marines."

The Corps has used the incident as a training tool to talk to troops about what symbols are acceptable after it became aware of the photograph last November, Chapin said.

Marines are going with the ignorance excuse. And, once again, that isn't a flag similar to an SS flag, that is an SS flag:

 

[BloodRed Pixel]

Simply as that:
If they knew what the symbol meant they should be prosecuted, and not allowed to serve anymore.
If they did not know what it meant, they are stupid and should NOT be allowed to handle deadly guns.

 

[Corporal Yakob]

Wow, the US Marines aren't very good at this public relations thing are they?

I also like how some people don't know what the SS symbol means or, even better, they do know but for some insane reason don't care-"We are proud to claim the title of United States Marines-nah to hell with that, we're Totenkopfverbande now!"

 

[cthulhumythos]

Looks more like the Kiss logo to me...!

And they didn't say they thought it meant that... they said their SS meant sniper scout... Sounds like you have right and truely jumpend on the media over exaggeration already...!

Oh, and my me sticking my middle finger at them I'm not saying Fuck you. No no no.

No, to me it means "Good job boys". Yeah, that's it...

Because symbols have universal meaning, right? I doubt the Marines weren't somehow cognizant of what it may have been tied to, but that is a horrible counter-argument.

Yes, a lot of symbols have universal meaning. Especially ones originating in a WORLD WAR where MARINES fought and DIED. If that symbol isn't known in America, then that's just kinda sad.

Maybe if we stopped funding the military and starting funding education...

So everyone in the world understands the middle finger as "Fuck you"? There is no culture that would look at that and think "Wtf is he doing?" The middle finger is a bad example.

The American culture should. That's my point. The SS symbol isn't some sort of unknown thing that you know, wasn't common knowledge in America say 60 years ago. Something that isn't part of AMERICAN history. Something that isn't im the AMERICAN collective conscious.

but, it isn't. hell, i didn't know the ss even had a particular symbol. the only symbol of the nazis that i recognize is the swastika. and also the one they had on their airplanes.

but, yeah, if they made it precisely like the ss symbol (which, after a google image search, i think they did) i find it pretty hard to discount this as unfortunate coincidence.

 

[wintercoat]

I would just like to point out that this:

has been in use for a bit now.

 

[Psychedelic Spartan]

They thought it meant sniper scout... is that even a thing? How do you even go through life without learning about this kind of thing, especially if you're in the military? I suppose one could argue the symbol of the SS is nowhere near as recognizable as the Swastika which is how it might be possible to make this kind of mistake, but even that is a freaking long shot.

Facepalm is a bit of an understatement for this one, facedesk seems more appropriate.

No, I'm gonna say facegun seems more appropriate in this situation. I think its time to whip out the old I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

 

[Thistlehart]

snipperoo

However, is that what the Marines are saying? Afraid not...

From the article [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46329740/ns/us_news/t/marines-posed-nazi-ss-symbol-afghanistan/#.TzfEeMVSQdR]:

The Marines believed the SS symbol was meant to represent sniper scouts and never intended to be associated with a racist organization, said Maj. Gabrielle Chapin, a spokeswoman at Camp Pendleton, where the Marines were based.

"I don't believe that the Marines involved would have ever used any type of symbol associated the Nazi Germany military criminal organization that committed mass atrocities in WWII," Chapin said. "It's not within who we are as Marines."

The Corps has used the incident as a training tool to talk to troops about what symbols are acceptable after it became aware of the photograph last November, Chapin said.

snipperoosommore

Sorry, that is what the Marine Corps. PR department is saying after the media got hold of the image and starting throwing unflattering accusations and assumptions into the public eye. Of course they're trying to re-spin this whole fiasco and make denials.

I'm talking about what may have actually happened; what thoughts and ideas may have caused the picture to be taken, and that flag to be used, in the first place. Not what the talking heads are saying now. Pay no attention to the big shouty green head fight in front of you.

Also, if we're going to talk specifics, let's talk specifics. That's not an actual SS flag, it's a replica SS flag.

 

[thatguy105]

Spoiler

That's wrong though. The Buddhist swastika is called Swastika in German, the Nazi "swastika" Hakenkreuz.
Hakenkreuz is not German for swastika as German clearly differentiates between the 2 symbols. Both also have a completely different historical background.
I'll never get why English language speakers and others group the NSDAP symbol together with dozens of other, similar symbols.

"That which we call a rose By any other name..."
I dare you to go anywhere in publc wearing a prominent Buddhist swastika and see if they listen to you explain how it differs from a Hakenkreuz.

 

[Iwata]

They are professional soldiers. They knew damn well what the symbol stood for when they took it, and expecting us to believe they didn't is adding even more insult to this whole fiasco. People can defend these guys all they want, but I come from a military family, and this is a slap in the face and just shows disrespect to everyone, from WWII veterans who fought against the SS to the millions of jews who now see the U.S. military using one of the most despised symbols in human history.

The SS were fanatics. Even the regular Wehrmacht soldiers despised and feared them. If you were caught with an SS uniform, chances were you'd be shot on the spot. They were the concentration camp guards, and responsible for thousands of atrocites all over Europe. To see their symbol ressurected in this fashion is disgusting. There is no other word for it.

 

[Loonyyy]

"Naive mistake". One of them likely owned the flag the article also mentions. Surely at least HE knew what it meant, and should be severely disciplined?

 

[Sirron Kcuch]

In dubio pro reo

 

[Major_Tom]

Shouldn't the background be black? I think only Luftwaffe flags were blue.