Marvels Jessica Jones is just extreme feminism and blaxploitation (Spoilers)

[BloatedGuppy]

Not sure how that's relevant, especially given how the thing that people got their panties in a bunch about was not only in the books, it was WORST in the books by virtue of having pedophilia on top of everything else people hated about that scene.

Relevant to what? The thread? Zontar. I think you know what's up with the thread.

I couldn't care less about the tone of GoT. The issue is the writing. It's horrendous. It's become an exceptionally bad show.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Sounds like you really want to hate the show, to be honest.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Brand new account, unbelievable Poe post.

Yeah I reported it. I'm going to report my post here, too, just in case any moderators are curious about WHY I reported it.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Man, I can't believe this guys take away from Jessica Jones was 'All the bad guys were white' not, 'Wow, that was a pretty good modern noir story'. Because that kinda informs a lot of the issues about it, like how everyone's a bit sketchy and has somewhat screwed up agendas. Just about every character fills a trope that'd fit a hard-boiled detective story.

But moving on: Jessica Jones is not extremist feminism. It's not even REGULAR feminism. Jessica's powers are even tweeked so it fits in very nicely with future stories, which only worked because Nuke turns up and you better believe that's going to be relevant to Cage's backstory. And probably Daredevil's second season.
If your biggest beef with Kilgrave is that he's white it's only because they couldn't afford enough PURPLE FUCKING BODYPAINT! Also, HOW IS THAT IN ANYWAY INDICATIVE OF WHITE MALES! Seriously though, you think those guys have SO MUCH White Privilege they can tell a dude to throw coffee in his face and he just does it?

I mean shit, they even gender-swapped Iron Fist's business buddy and made him (err, her) a complete c*nt, what part of that is sexist?
... also, that's going to be an interesting talk when Danny Rand finally gets back from K'un Lun and finds out Jeri's wife is dead and superheroes are a thing.

Wrapping it up now, OP's fulla bullhockey.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Your post is so full of wrong information that I really just don't want to get into it. Suffice to say, it's EXTREMELY clear that you went into this show wanting to find what you're now posting and then proceeded to find those things by ignoring contradictory information and misinterpreting other things.

I'm not going to put the effort into dismantling your post because you've only just joined and made this topic which makes me very suspicious.

Brand new account, unbelievable Poe post.

Yeah I reported it. I'm going to report my post here, too, just in case any moderators are curious about WHY I reported it.

The scary thing is, I think he might be serious. I mean, he wrote a damn essay and seemed to be legitimately trying to debate people (I use the term debate very loosely) until he realized that almost everyone was against him. Heck he's even posting elsewhere now. I hope you're right though.

 

[Zontar]

Not sure how that's relevant, especially given how the thing that people got their panties in a bunch about was not only in the books, it was WORST in the books by virtue of having pedophilia on top of everything else people hated about that scene.

Relevant to what? The thread? Zontar. I think you know what's up with the thread.

I couldn't care less about the tone of GoT. The issue is the writing. It's horrendous. It's become an exceptionally bad show.

I'd like to point out that due to Martin's inability to grasp proper grammar and his unwillingness to avoid clichés the same can be said for the books.

 

[DementedSheep]

How the hell is Kilgrave the epitome of white males? When is he every referred to as that?

Ruben's sister is full of shit, that's just how she talks. She breaks down and admits she needs him and he did better than she dose. Ruben's a little bit creepy but as far as characters in this show go he is a decent person and much nicer than the sister. She isn't some noble woman selflessly looking after her retarded (which I don't think he was) brother. She seems more controlling and abusive. In addition to general bitchiness and craziness she tries to get the support group to turn on Jessica.

Malcom is one of the more decent people in this show (despite the rocky start) and he is male, being black doesn't somehow make him or Luke not count so you can pretend this is some extreme feminist thing where all the main guys are villains. By the same token the white main characters being female doesn't cancel out them being white.

Jessica Jones biggest flaw is that she can't kill Kilgrave? She also a *****, a drunk and thuggish at times. She dangles someone who's crime is not signing divorce papers over train tracks while pissed and stalks a guy (including taking photos) whose wife she killed then fucks him without telling him this which is just wrong on so many levels. She even tries to get the evidence about his wifes death before him to hide her involvement. She is not a nice person.
Her not killing Kilgrave wasn't even a moral thing like with most superheroes, it was due to trying to get Hope out of prison. She is perfectly fine with torturing him (even I felt bad for him during that).

The lawyer is a sack shit in many ways. It would be quicker to list her good traits. You can't pretend her flaws are minor and I bet if they had kept her male you'd be complaining about them too.

Luke Cage upon thinking a drunk buss driver accidently killed his wife immediately attempts to murder him so he's not exactly sunshine and rainbows.

Damn near every character in this falls victim to Kilgrave because he's the main villain. The only one I can think of that didn't was the tie in nurse because she never meet him or anyone currently controlled by him. That they all fall victim to him just means they came in contact with him at some point. He has white male victims as well (quite a lot in fact and even though he's not a main character the guy who's wants to die was one of the more impactful ones), they are mostly just background characters.
EDIT: and there is Trish's mum who also never meet him and puts yet another whole in your argument that the woman are positive and follow the same pattern.

If the current lack of white guy heroes in this bothers you go watch almost any other show.

 

[Thyunda]

I actually thought Jessica Jones was an example of 'feminist' TV done right. Jessica, despite being a superhero oriented around super-strength managed to go through the day without coming across as an overly-hostile 'action girl' and was clearly just an alcoholic, which is perfectly normal for a PI. Luke Cage made me think of Terry Crews crossed with Kanye West and that can only be a good thing. What I really liked about this series was that it had a mostly female cast and they were all fairly compelling characters. Nobody felt forced in for the sake of it, and nobody had "I'M A FEMINIST ICON" branded on their foreheads. And, possibly the most praiseworthy aspect - Margaret Atwood didn't do any of the writing. Which ruins most things for me, if I even get a hint she was anywhere near the production of anything. Especially bread.

I think Kilgrave as a villain was a bit of a gamble - an actor without David Tennant's talent could've easily messed up the role and then the whole show, but he absolutely nailed it. He was fascinating. Even afterward, I still can't tell if I sympathise with him or not, because he wasn't wrong when he said that he was a child when he tortured his parents - you can't really expect a child to behave normally. Then, once you can get whatever you want simply by demanding it, why would you bother with the unreliability of other people?

I mean yeah, dude's a rapist but then there was also the "How am I supposed to know?!" part. It's a good question. And I probably need way more time and space to properly articulate my thoughts on the show - but since the OP didn't take five minutes to articulate his utterly bizarre thoughts on the show, don't see why I should either.

I just wanted to say it was great. And that Malcolm is apparently the first character in the MCU to say 'fuck,' and he's just the soundest character. Ever. His arc was one of the best I've ever seen. And I watch a lot of TV.

 

[SuperScrub]

Man this post is going to be a slobbernocker, I can tell anyway OP I liked Jessica Jones and I didn't feel like Luke Cage was blaxplotation so...yea that.

 

[Lucane]

Wow, your tenure here is going to be short, enjoy it while you're allowed.

What do you want from me? I did say I'm sorry you read it all. I truly am. The basics of criticizing things like TV series is that first you have to watch them. I can't stop you from doing things can I?

I'm also confused how JJ is full of blaxploitation? Because the black characters are not shallow easily identifiable charictures of what you think black people should be?

By saying Jessica Jones is blaxploitation is that the series has no good or even normal white male main characters. All the black male ones are the best possible ones, a superhero, a good cop, a good friend. That doesn't really mirror the reality. Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully the future brings somewhat normal white male characters to the series. Sadly I have already stopped watching at this point.

Hopes Dad, The victim who lost his coat and countless others in clubs, restaurants, private homes and the police station who were being mind controlled by Kilgrave all decent people or so far as to not having to mention general corruption in the local police or dangerous dance clubs with trouble every other night. And if I'm not mistaken the only time the show brings up a gay person as far as showing proof of interest or a couple was near the end not out of hatred but because of where they lived being so nice and fancy to Kilgraves high standards. Remember the earlier straight white couple with two kids? He took their home too among others off camera.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

The series has 3 white male main charaters that are all somewhat flawed or bad. The main antogonist Kilgrave is the "epithome of white male" a English man, a colonist, a person with no morality, who's victims are mostly women, homosexuals and colored.

Okay, first off; he's the main antagonist. Of course he's going to be a bad person.
Furthermore, I have no idea how he's a "colonist". He does have morals, they're just twisted; in WWJD he's fully in support of the idea of using his powers heroically, he just doesn't know how to be good. And finally, his victims are pretty diverse. No group seems to be disproportionately victimised over others. In fact, the cops he controls might be mainly white men, I'd have to rewatch those scenes to make sure.

Next is Reuben a silly, bit retarded white male who is in love with the female protagonist and is totally dependent of the care of his sister (Quote from the series "He coulnd't even tie his shoelaces without me!")

I can't remember a single scene which actually demonstrates his incompetence. It mostly seems to be stuff his (abusive) sister says about him. He's pretty awkward around Jessica, sure, but based on how Robyn seems to treat him, I'd say Reuben not being good with other people/other women makes sense.

Then there is the white male "hero" Simpson who is basically first a good but bit simple cop that falls victim to Kilgrave. After surviving that he has the most sane and logical solution to end Kilgrave, but after the female protagonist messes up Simpon turns out to be a shady ex-blacops dopehead and murdering psychopath, who thinks he's doing good deeds by killing innocents.

Simpson isn't a hero. He's a villain. Specifically, he's Nuke [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuke_(Marvel_Comics)].

This all for the female watchers to feel superior and enpowered when every white male charater in the series are flawed.

[citation needed]
Also, Kilgrave's father isn't really that flawed. He tried to save his son's life and then, after realising he fucked up, tried to make a vaccine to stop Kilgrave's powers working on anyone else.

Malcom is black a heroic ex-victim that helps female protagonist and other victims of Kilgrave after Jessica helps him. Malcom is trustworthy and good person.

He spies on Jessica for drugs, of his own free will (to some extent), and lies to Robyn about Reuben. Also, as pointed out in one of the later episodes, he doesn't actually help the other victims, just Jessica.

Luke Cage is the main black hero, a trustworthy, good person who has superpowers

He nearly murderers a bus driver who he thought killed his wife. Hardly heroic, especially when you consider the fact that said bus driver (claims to have) reformed after that bus crash.

and his black wife Reva was also victim of Kilgrave.

So is basically everyone in the show.

Clemons is a trustworthy and good black police officer that falls victim to first to Kilgrave and then to the white male "hero" Simpson.

Again, Simpson isn't a hero.

Jessica Jones is the supertrong protagonist, a "ex-hero" whos main "flaw" is that she can't bring herself to kill Kilgrave and that creates more and more victims.

That's a pretty big flaw, considering how many people get hurt because of it. Also, she's unnecessarily violent at some points, like when she holds Wendy in front of a train and drops her on the tracks. And, she kinda stalks Luke and nearly gets a bus driver killed.
And, she's not an ex-hero. She saved a grand total of two people before meeting Kilgrave.

Jessicas best friend is white female Trish who is famous, successful and rich radiohost. Trish is also heroic (learns krav maga), ex-victim of Kilgrave and she is trustworthy person with good moral compass.

For the record, Trish Walker is also a superheroine; Hellcat [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patsy_Walker].

lesbian Hogarth a successful lawyer who falls victim to Kilgrave.

She only becomes Kilgrave's victim because she tries to use him to force Wendy to sign the divorce papers. Also, she's an adulterer, doesn't treat her wife very well, and is ultimately responsible for everything Kilgrave does after Jessica captures him (since she freed him). Hogarth is not a good person.

Pam is female secterary who falls victim to Kilgrave.

I don't think she ever actually meets Kilgrave. She gets arrested for killing Wendy, but that was ultimately Hogarth's fault as well as Kilgrave's.

Wendy Hogarth a female doctor who is good samaritan that keeps a free hospital for poors. Wendy falls victim to Kilgrave, Do'h!.

She's more a victim of Hogarth than Kilgrave.

Robyn a female that takes care of his retarted brother and falls victim to Kilgrave.

See what I said about Reuben above.

Then there is the series main victim: Hope. She is innocent, beautiful, sporty country girl who ends up killing her parents, spending her time in the series at jail hell and in the end ends up hero killing herself so that the protagonist has strengt to finally kill the antogonist: A psychopath white male.

That's all true, but I don't actually see what point it makes.

Even when the creators have gone for more realistic New York look and feel, curse words like "fuck" don't show up even once. That isn't very realistic. Note that word "fuck" is often recarded as a mascular, male used, antifeminist and vulgar swearword.

Marvel didn't let them say fuck [http://www.webcitation.org/6cHchpv7S]. Presumably for ratings reasons.

Also in the sex scenes a white male is never on top. It's always the female who is on top or the black male (Luke Cage).

I can think of one sex scene with a white guy, so that's hardly a big sample size.

Even when the antogonist rapes women, none of these scenes are shown only talked about. The sexual intercourse scenes in the series that are shown the female are always in total control.

In one of Luke and Jessica's first sex scenes, Luke is obviously in control. He's physically holding himself back, because he doesn't know about Jessica's powers, and this is mentioned in that scene. Therefore, he's in control of the situation.

You can compare this to better written series like GoT.

You mean the show that had

Spoiler: possibly a spoiler within

a guy rape his sister next to their son's corpse for no reason?

Actually looking over his rant his issues from the comics can be summed up as "They wrote the characters faithfully toward their comic counterparts and I don't like that!"

TL;DR for my post; pretty much this.

 

[BadNewDingus]

It's just a show.

I bet you can warp any show to reveal how "terrible" it is for said gender or whatever.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Oh man, this is almost as funny as all those "Undertale is an SJW game" posts going around.

"How am I supposed to enjoy this tv show if there's not a rape scene?! I mean, people are so sensitive these days, producers feel like they have to hide all the graphic rape..."

 

[WolfThomas]

Can I say one thing about those sex scenes? They were refreshing. Luke and Jessica. These characters actually looked like they had some chemistry, like real people. All of the Marvel films have been PGish, but even then I cannot imagine Pepper Potts and Tony Stark, or Thor and Jane Foster boning, I can't, they're too stilted in their relationship.

Heh, anytime the writers of GoT stray from direct source material it's awful.

Book material isn't always optimal to work with, but even then GoT is hands down million times better than Jessica Jones. Plus GoT TV writing is George RR Martin approved.

Many of the changes actually add more crap and remove time for important things from the book (Jaime's WTF Dornish adventure). I disagree, each season I've because less and less interested in GoT. From addicted Season 1 to meh Season 5. No big event to piss me off/surprise me, just a gradual meh over time. GRRM approved in that he approved the series and now has little to no power over it, just can make suggestions.

 

[Parasondox]

*opens up a can of beer*

This thread is beautiful. I can feel the anger and hate for a fictional IP and that's been happening a lot lately.

You didn't like it. That's perfectly okay. Just don't class it as something it isn't.

 

[DrownedAmmet]

Oh man, this is almost as funny as all those "Undertale is an SJW game" posts going around.

"How am I supposed to enjoy this tv show if there's not a rape scene?! I mean, people are so sensitive these days, producers feel like they have to hide all the graphic rape..."

Well, GoT the show has been adding rapes, so it evens out

Can I say one thing about those sex scenes? They were refreshing. Luke and Jessica. These characters actually looked like they had some chemistry, like real people. All of the Marvel films have been PGish, but even then I cannot imagine Pepper Potts and Tony Stark, or Thor and Jane Foster boning, I can't, they're too stilted in their relationship.

Yeah, say it loud and say it proud, man! I too enjoyed the sex scenes, especially this moment:

Spoiler

As a male I've been on the opposite side of this position, and I never really thought about how the woman felt in it. It made me realize how weird it would be to be in Luke's position, because I've never been with someone who was physically stronger than me (also it was much more weirder for him because that is probably the first time in his life he was around someone who was physically stronger than him at all, much less in a sexual way.) It got me thinking how I would react in that situation, and made me realize how much trust is at play in doing that

So yeah, actual thought-provoking sex scenes