Mass Effect 3 Gets An Ending

[l3o2828]

Let me summarize everyones reaction:
BWAAAA I'M OBVIOUSLY A MASS EFFECT FAN AND YOU MISSED THE WHOLE POINT BWWWAAAAAAA ;O;


Jesus christ guys...
And if you ask No I never even played a mass effect game and after seeing how much of entitled 5 year olds the fanbase is i am even less interested in being part of that group.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

As for how they'll know you don't like it? Expressing negative opinions about it. That's how they'll know. Returning the product so you can get your money back, and discouraging people from buying it. And if you haven't already bought it, don't. Tanking sales figures and large numbers of people selling it back. That's how they'll know.

This I agree with, along with generating bad press for EA. But they are much more passive than getting in their face and keeping the pressure up. Other than that I think we are just in disagreement over the rhetoric of specific words, and this is just going to keep bouncing back and forth going nowhere. So no hard feelings and all that.

 

[Taunta]

anc[is]

As for how they'll know you don't like it? Expressing negative opinions about it. That's how they'll know. Returning the product so you can get your money back, and discouraging people from buying it. And if you haven't already bought it, don't. Tanking sales figures and large numbers of people selling it back. That's how they'll know.

This I agree with, along with generating bad press for EA. But they are much more passive than getting in their face and keeping the pressure up. Other than that I think we are just in disagreement over the rhetoric of specific words, and this is just going to keep bouncing back and forth going nowhere. So no hard feelings and all that.

Of course. I think that might be one of the problems of people talking past each other about this entire issue. But oh well. Agreed to disagree.

Cheers all around.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Ugh, the noise. The droning noise.

Noise by the ending complainers, noise by the ending complainers complainers; All of it has lost any meaning at this point and only serves to slowly drive everyone in-fucking-sane.

This rubberband has no more stretch left in it. Please, let it end.

 

[GonzoGamer]

For what it's worth, here's how I would do the ending:
1) Remove synthesis and the Normandy fleeing, because they make no sense.
2) The mass relays are only destroyed if your war assets are too low.
3) With enough war assets, Shepard can survive the control option as well as the destroy option, but this would be really hard to get.
4) With enough war assets, destroy kills only the Reapers, while EDI, the Geth, and other synthetics survive.
5) A funeral scene for Shepard and Anderson if she dies, just Anderson if she lives.

I would have the Scooby Doo ending:
Reapers turn out to be one guy - Mr Smithers who owns the old abandoned amusement park on the edge of town.

 

[Diana Kingston-Gabai]

Really? I was not aware of this? Well, thing is, if the fans are asking Bioware to change the ending(s) then, by definition, they play a role in it.

Maybe so, but there is, IMO, a significant difference between saying "Dear BioWare, please change the ending of this game" and "Dear BioWare, please change the ending of this game so that Harbinger dies and Anderson lives and Joker and EDI stay together and Tali ends up with Garrus and etc. etc. etc." The majority seem to be asking for a better ending, not better endings containing specific content.

 

[ryukage_sama]

The ending only bothers me because it wasn't an ending. It was like a teaser for the next movie, the next season, the next book. The player thought, "It can't end like THIS!" and BioWare replies, "Oh, it isn't over yet. You can see the rest once you insert another 800 BioWare points."

I'm a subscriber to the Indoctrination Theory that states the endings we saw were just a delusion caused be the Reapers within Shepard's mind, which I think is genius. Unfortunately the requirement that we pay more money to see the rest makes it evil genius.

I just hope any altered ending isn't made in the mindset of Hideaki Anno. Did "End of Evangelion" teach fans nothing?

 

[DugMachine]

Yeah well like, that's just your opinion man.

OT: Ending was meh but whatever, I had fun with the trilogy and i'll continue to buy more Bioware games. All I got to say.

 

[FedericoV]

The original ending as envisioned by the original lead writer of the ME series was not the ending we got. For two games the series builded the themes that were meant to be explored in the ending. That ending would have even explained the meaning of the the franchise's name. It would not have been any happier, maybe it would have been even more tragic and depressing, but it would have made sense and would have taken in to account what has happened before during the entire series. Not only that: even the leaked script of November 2011 has in many ways a different ending. That alone contradicts anything Yathzee has to "offer" on the theme. The ending wasn't planned at all. They pulled it out on the fly, just like Lost authors, mixing sources that do not fit with ME themes at all, like the original Dues Ex or Matrix Revolution.

In my opinion, ME3 endings suck on any level: writing, art, gameplay, storytelling. You name it. Is it a tragedy? No, off course. And I agree that the rest of the game is mostly good (even if it has his problems too).

But when someone judges the loud reaction of Bioware's fanbase, he should take in to account that the company in question have done anything in the last years to break the relation of trust with their player base. I'm talking of the long list of lies that the devs has fed us during the last years. Like, you know, "you can have the better ending without playing MP". I'm talking of their crappy and rushed games of late, where recycling and cutting corners have become "innovation". Like, you know, DA2, defined by the free and illuminated critics of The Escapist as "the best RPG of the year". I'm talking of the business model they are trying to impose on their fanbase. Like, you know, day one DLC that were part of the damn original CD.

ME3 endings are just the last drop. Only if you know what has happened before you can understand the dire situation of late. Btw, I do not want Bioware to rewrite the ending: I hope they stay the same so anyone can judge on his own what's happened to that incredible, creative and friendly company when EA has come in to the picture. It's important that nothing is touched so we, as simple gamers, can judge the credibility of the gaming press and their perfect scores on metacritic.

Having said all of that: anyone is entitled to his opinion. But it's strange to see a reviewer, one who lives thanks to his criticism, that questions the intelligence of fans who are simply expressing their criticism about a piece of art and asking for an alternative ending they are willing to pay for.

Especially from Yathzee, who has allways talked about the special nature of videogames as an interactive form of art, who has allways talked about the general stupidity of game storytelling. Now he questions the demand for more interactivity, more intelligence and more respect on any level. Now he plays the "it's art" card. Well, I guess that I should not come to The Escapist if I want to read/see something honest about EA/Bioware...

PS: Btw, corporate companies like Bioware use focus groups to test their games and they change their plans according to the result of those testing. If games were really art and could not be questioned, companies should not use such tools. But games are not art, at least not AAA games. So, tell me, what's the difference between focus group and the feedback of the fans?

 

[survivor686]

With all due respect to Yahtzee, I can't help but feel that he had missed the main points over the furor of the endings.

A. During the lead up to its release, the developers promised us (aka: their customers) that Mass Effect 3 would have multiple endings (at least 16 I believe). Instead we got 3 variations on the same one (Red, Blue and Green).

This is akin to Mercedes promising us the next evolution in car technology and then providing us a somewhat inferior product. While still charging us the same price.

B. The endings themselves are filled with plot-holes, bizarre logical fallacies and break some concrete rules of narrative. In just ten minutes we have transformed the "Cthulesque" horror of the Reapers into the more "well-intentioned extremist" trope. When combined with their bizarre methods of achieving their goals (seriously didn't anyone consider Asimov's three laws of robotics?) made the ending sequence akin to deflating a balloon.

C. By changing the endings, Bioware will not be succumbing to political correctness. Instead it would a company acknowledging the fact that a significant proportion of their customers are displeased with the product. This would be seen on the same level as test audiences rejecting ridiculous endings or publisher's telling novel authors to fix/remove awful plot points. Most forms of art have always had some form of interaction with the creator and the viewer. Perhaps the furor over the ending is the next evolution of that interaction?

PS: Anyone else confused as to how the damn "Starchild" looked exactly as that one kid?

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

Well, with all due respect... Yahtzee, you've missed the point. Aka the reason for outrage.
Ending is filled with plotholes and contradicts itself.
Imagine Tolkien writing about Gollum appearing in the Shire after the destruction of the ring - with no explanation. Someone would tell "Mr. Tolkien, you actually killed him in the lava a chapter ago... Erm?".
Same with Mass Effect 3 ending scene.

 

[Gigatoast]

I at no point said "majority." Unfortunately, there are people making unreasonable demands and the fact that their number is greater than 1 means there are too many.

But most people who take the movement seriously see those people the same way you do, whiney and entitled. They don't support or condone those who are making unreasonable demands because they're just giving them a bad name. For all intents and purposes they are not part of the movement

1. Do not use this position to file a lawsuit with the FTC as I can guarantee you will lose. That is not how the law works. I understand that is not a majority opinion, but the fact that some people are filing the lawsuit at all means that it needs to be said.

I... don't really get that guy, neither to most of the retakers. I'm guess he wasn't actually expecting to get very far, he just wanted to make a statement. The retakers don't want to do any irreverseable damage to Bioware anyway, we want them to work with us, that would be counter-productive.

2. Bioware is not actually obligated to respond. Sending ultimatums actually hurts a cause more often than not as the recipient will usually be very happy to call your bluff.

Us retakers fully respect Bioware's right not to respond to us, but they have to live with the consiquences if they don't. Consumer trust is a very important commodity that can be easily lost if a company doesn't handle their PR well.

That said, publishers don't generally take threats of boycott (and that is essentially what this shakes down to) seriously as gamers have repeatedly proven to have very little in the way of willpower. Consider the Steam groups who declared they were boycotting a title and then the majority of their members were found playing that title on launch day. It sent a message to publishers that our threats are hollow.

Oh hell yes, I hate boycott groups. But they're usually formed from a group of people who want the thing they're attempting to boycott, and are often driven to protest because of a business decision or something else they don't like. NOT because they simply don't want the product. Ask any retaker and they'll tell you the ending pretty much ruined their desire to play any further DLC and they don't really trust future Bioware games to deliver on the studio's promises.

So it's not activism, it's simple cause and effect consumer economics. Retakers want to like Bioware again, but if they just blow us off then we wont be enclined to purchase from them.

Also, if you want to be seen as reasonable, you need to vocally denounce the people who exploited Child's Play as emotional blackmail and then demanded their money back. You need to tell the people who make unreasonable statements and demands that they do not speak for you. If you do not wish to be generalized as being one of them, you need to give us a reason to see you as standing apart.

Well where did you hear about them? Because all the offical statements from both the charity and the movement organizers have insisted they do not condone or support any of those people. But many articles have been trying to put a negative spin on everything we do, god knows why, maybe they just want us to shut up.

But the majority of the retaker protest stratagies have been positive and constructive. (though quite a bit of them come at great personal cost to us, but maybe that just puts a dent in the 'entitled' argument)

For example, check out this thread I posted if you haven't already: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.357872-Angry-ME3-fans-send-cupcakes-to-Bioware?page=1

So far you personally have done little to convince me, though this is a step in the right direction. I have repeatedly said that I'm okay with people not liking the ending and taking their business elsewhere. I just don't want them coming into every thread to go, "Cool story bro. Hey, did I mention that this totally relates to how much I think Bioware sucks?"

I can't really justify the actions of people who actually are friggen annoying, and you're well within your rights go tell them to STFU. But I don't want them to shine such a negative light on the entire movement. There's always people who take a cause too far, but that doesn't take away from the cause itself.

We're really a respectful bunch, though there's still lots of crazy speculation and joke threads on BSN anyone who tries to make us look like 'whining entitled children' is promptly slapped down when confronted by the core of the movement.

Just for the hell-of-it here's a thread from BSN that pretty much everyone who's part of the movement agrees with. It's basically our mission statement.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10662944

 

[moosek]

The way the games press handled this was in many ways a mistake. IGN's Colin Moriarty takes a platitude that the outcriers are a minority that is entitled and will compromise Bioware's artistic integrity. Destructoid's Max Scoville likens fans to a manbaby horde. The press is presenting the grass roots outrage to the creators regardless of how the message is actually presented. The rhetoric is currently, "Change the ending because we're pissed off," when in reality most of the things expressed are, "That ending was terrible and made no sense."

I don't care if they don't change it, but what else does Bioware have to offer with their DLC that they immediately proposed after the end of the game. What Yahtzee mentioned seems like an ideal solution, appease the fans with elaboration of alternation of the current ending with added content.

That being said here's what I'm fine with about the ending:
-Shepard's death: The fact that dying is inevitable is something I can accept.
-Shutting down the Mass Relays: This is something I actually saw coming.
-Confronting the Illusive Man: I wanted resolution.
-The credits song: It's a pretty chill song.

Here's what I hate about the ending:
-The space ghost: That kid's ghost showing up and basically introducing nonsense.
-The lack of agency: There's no effective player choice in the ending.
-The Normandy inexplicably appearing elsewhere: This scene sucked, and the first time I saw it I knew the ending was rushed.
-The ambiguous post credits where a child asks about 'The Shepard': This was totally unnecessary and was contrived for artistic merit.

 

[Jezzy54]

I think the indoctrination theory explains the plotholes enough to avoid an entire overhaul of the ending. Personally, I have a bad feeling BioWare deliberately left an opening for one of those DLC resolutions. Also, Squad characters don't all necessarily die like you seem to be saying, so there is room for closure with them. And I call bullshit on the "hopeless cycle" interpretation. Mass Effect is a friggin' RPG, it's supposed to be all about making choices with significantly different outcomes. During the development stage, BioWare specifically claimed there'd be much more depth to the endings, not just "A, B or C", the latter being pretty much what happens in the game. I think you might just be making excuses.

 

[shrekfan246]

I believe someone on this very website once said:
"Fans are clingy complaining dipshits who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices the happier you will be for it. Incidentally, why not buy a Zero Punctuation t-shirt?"

And I believe that statement holds true to this instance. It's really the only thing I have left to say in any Mass Effect related thread now. I might as well smash my head against a brick wall than try debating with anyone who dislikes the endings of the game. Oh, I know all of the arguments. But you see, the thing is? I just don't care. I have better things to do than get outraged over a video game ending. Which is saying something, because pretty much all I do with my free time is play video games.

 

[GloatingSwine]

The counterpoint to the "artistic integrity" argument is very simple.

Mass Effect is commercial art. The "artistic integrity" of the product is already beholden to its financial backers (For instance, Javik and his mission were removed to cut development time to meet a release date determined by the publisher).

As the old maxim goes, "he who pays the piper calls the tune", and ultimately we as gamers are the ones paying.

More, naturally, from Forbes [http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/27/mass-effect-3-and-corporate-influence-over-commercial-art/]

 

[anthony87]

Seriously.. I love bioware, I'll still buy there games, I'm not on the message boards much, but I feel the need to get in on this.. It was a superb ending to an even better series, and not trying to get in on this heated fire exchange that's been going over the internet, but I believe the ending did go over most people's heads.

SPOILER ALERT_____________________________________________



Shepherd was indoctrinated through the whole series, the end of the game was not truly inside the crucible, it was the battle of indoctrination is Shepherd's mind. I have more to back up this argument if anyone is interested.

*sigh*

Yes, and I'm sure you came up with all this indoctrination stuff yourself.

I'm not trying to attack your or anything but all this "indoctrination theory" nonsense just reeks of fanfiction to me and the fact that people are clinging to it so desperately just goes to show how much Bioware dropped the ball with the ending.