Mass Effect 3: Leviathan is about reaper origins

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ComradeJim270

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lumenadducere said:
I can't be the only one that wasn't thrilled with the "unknowable, beyond your comprehension" thing. To me that's just bad writing. Maybe I'm optimistic about the capability of the human mind to understand things, but anything unknown to me is just something that needs to be discovered and studied in order to be understood. Saying "we're so above you you could never comprehend us" just sounds like the Reapers are hipsters to me. And I find hipsters to be far less scary than robo space squid with a defined origin.

But then, I've never really found Cthulhu or any of the Lovecraftian mythos to be particularly scary, either. The whole "unknowable" thing has never done it for me and I don't get why others find it creepy at all. It's kinda like particle physics, in a way - you can explain it in layman's terms to someone who doesn't know anything about physics. Yes, it won't really be entirely accurate and it'll be extremely simplified, but it's still understandable. Everything has an origin, everything has a motivation, and if need be we can understand in the most basic, dumbed down terms...but it's still a form of understanding.

Plus, it wasn't ME3 that killed the notion of the Reapers as being Cthulhu-esque, it was the end of the first game. Sovereign's death immediately destroys the whole "we're so far beyond you" mystique and lets you know that they're mortal and can die just like anything else. Yes, it requires overwhelming firepower beyond what most civilizations can muster, but it's still doable. That end sequence immediately sets them on an understandable and conquerable level, regardless of how overwhelming the odds.
I agree. To me, Sovreign's "beyond your comprehension" line didn't do much for me the first time and had me rolling my eyes and going "sure, buddy, whatever you say" each time I heard it afterwards. The notion that the Reapers are designed to think this way so as not to question whether it's right to do what they do occurred to me after ME3 and I think it's fascinating in its own way. I don't think it diminishes how scary they are because what made them scary is not being unknowable, it's a being an ancient and innumerable horde of nigh-unstoppable abominations that can turn even the most strong-willed individuals into gibbering puppets or nightmarish monstrosities and that unfailingly and regularly commit genocide on a scale which is in and of itself barely fathomable to the human mind. Finding out more about them in ME2 made them more frightening to me, not less so.
 

Rack

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Gennadios said:
I could care less.
So how much do you care? Is it a lot?

I don't care at all, Bioware can still write interesting side stories but everything they have written concerning the Reapers since ME1 has been absolute tripe.
 

jurnag12

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It's not really a mystery, is it? It's a dead Reaper (Btw, if the Reapers wipe out all traces of the cycle when they finish with it and go back to dark space, why do they keep leaving behind their dead buddies just floating around for anyone to find and prematurely alert the galaxy of indoctrination and such?).
Specfically, it's a dead Reaper that got hit up by a gun so large that it took out half the planet that it was built on, and it was pretty much dead.
Until a Batarian team came in, started doing some research, and woke it up (as is usual when dead reapers are investigated), at which point it vamoosed out of there and used something in Batarian space to use as an alternative method of getting the Reapers into the galaxy.
 

johnnnny guitar

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I don't give a shit about the "Origins of the Reapers" because it's tied to the deus ex machina star child and if it's $15 for a 2 hour shooting gallery then the DLC is going to drop even further off my radar in fact it already has.
 

Still Life

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Looking forward to it. The SP DLC was mostly high quality with ME2, so this should be a real treat.

I really like that Bioware have supported the crap out of this game post-release.
 

Acton Hank

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Elmoth said:
These screenshots just confirm what I already agree with.

"Mass Effect is changing (Has changed by now) its target audience, and I'm not in it. What started out as a thoughtful sci-fi setting with music designed to carry the Blade Runner vibe and dialogue that Picard could've spoken now became a goddamn Power Rangers episode full of space ninjas, space marines, anime and cringeworthy oneliners.

Enjoy selling to the 12-18 year old male demographic, Bioware. You are doubtlessly shifting your focus to this easily exploitable market because of your boundless artistic integrity."
Shut... the fuck... up...

If I accidentally read one more montage of stupid moronic statements...
You know what, fuck this site...
I was stupid to think that the people here had anything remotely resembling intelligence and thought.

You guys are just the Youtube comment section without the 500 character limitations.
Fuck You, and good day.
 

Blunderboy

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oconneki said:
No, No, No, No Bioware! When you have an Eldritch lovecraftian Character you DO NOT explain what they are or where they came from. You merely dance around it or give cryptic or unreliable hints as to their nature.



"Rudimentary creature of Blood and Flesh, you touch my mind, Fumbling in ignorance INCAPABLE of understanding." -Sovereign


To gaze upon the visage of Cthulhu is to court madness. If you gaze upon Cthulhu's tentacley awesomeness and understand it then Cthulhu's not that scary a character. The Reapers were terrifying because they were unknown (perhaps unknowable). If we learn too much about them or their motivations then they become normal, relatable, and mundane.



"The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown" -H.P. Lovecraft



I WANT THE CTHULHU-BORG TO REMAIN THE CTHULHU-BORG! I don't want them to just be those rouge octopus A.I.


...Rant done. I guess I shouldn't care very much any more since Bioware already screwed the pooch on the Reapers (among other things) with the ending, E.C. or not, but it's easier to head-canon one screw up than it is two.


EDIT: On an unrelated note, I'm almost out of Space on my Xbox and can't handle many more DLC's... so... uhh... Boo
So maybe don't buy the DLC. :)
I'm with you though. I mean I loved all of the ME games, but I'd prefer to keep the mystery of the Reapers a mystery.
 

crazyrabbits

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Reading the description of this DLC, I'm reminded of a line spoken towards Tugg Speedman in Tropic Thunder - "You never go full retard."

Considering the sorry state of affairs Bioware turned the Reapers into in 3, they may as well just go all the way and destroy them for good. Now, after learning in the first game that they were "each a nation, independent", yet allied for one cause because they believed the ends justified the means, we suddenly have a "good" Reaper.

If this was being released as part of ME2, I probably would have been gung-ho for it. Yet, considering how irrelevant ME2's DLC is to 3 (especially LotSB, which was shoved under the rug at the beginning of the third game when Traynor took over most of Liara's duties), and given how pointless the game because you get the same set of circumstances regardless of whether you played Paragon/Renegade, rushing or being a completionist, there's little point.

Apparently the DLC will give a couple extra lines of dialogue in the ending according to IGN - big whoop. I remember when the last game gave you alternate conversations/cutscenes or flavour text as a reward for trying new things, not making you pay $10 for the courtesy of slightly clarifying something that was broken beforehand.

Still Life said:
I really like that Bioware have supported the crap out of this game post-release.
Sure. With multiplayer content (mostly a ploy for microtransactions). I guess one good thing I can say is that at least they're not making you charge an arm and a nose for that SP weapon pack, considering most of the content is already in MP (and can even be unlocked without the pack by editing a file in the game folder).
 

Acton Hank

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Elmoth said:
ChrisRedfield92 said:
Elmoth said:
ChrisRedfield92 said:
Elmoth said:
These screenshots just confirm what I already agree with.

"Mass Effect is changing (Has changed by now) its target audience, and I'm not in it. What started out as a thoughtful sci-fi setting with music designed to carry the Blade Runner vibe and dialogue that Picard could've spoken now became a goddamn Power Rangers episode full of space ninjas, space marines, anime and cringeworthy oneliners.

Enjoy selling to the 12-18 year old male demographic, Bioware. You are doubtlessly shifting your focus to this easily exploitable market because of your boundless artistic integrity."
Shut... the fuck... up...

If I accidentally read one more montage of stupid moronic statements...
You know what, fuck this site...
I was stupid to think that the people here had anything remotely resembling intelligence and thought.

You guys are just the Youtube comment section without the 500 character limitations.
Fuck You, and good day.
Rage, strike one, no arguments, strike three, talking down to the forums, strike three and you're out!
Please learn how to count before you dish out moronic childishness...
You edit my post and accuse me of childishness? Pretending like I can't count, that's low.
You accuse me of editing your post? That's low.
 

Eddie the head

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Feb 22, 2012
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Elmoth said:
These screenshots just confirm what I already agree with.

"Mass Effect is changing (Has changed by now) its target audience, and I'm not in it. What started out as a thoughtful sci-fi setting with music designed to carry the Blade Runner vibe and dialogue that Picard could've spoken now became a goddamn Power Rangers episode full of space ninjas, space marines, anime and cringeworthy oneliners.

Enjoy selling to the 12-18 year old male demographic, Bioware. You are doubtlessly shifting your focus to this easily exploitable market because of your boundless artistic integrity."
Because the 12-18 year old male demographic is somehow lesser than you? Because the demographic that you sit under is just so much better then those lesser ones. Maybe that's not what you meant by that, maybe you think it's ok to infer that you are better then the "unwashed masses." Regardless I don't much care you sounded arrogant, and I don't like arrogance.
 

Acton Hank

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Nov 19, 2009
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Elmoth said:
ChrisRedfield92 said:
Elmoth said:
ChrisRedfield92 said:
Elmoth said:
ChrisRedfield92 said:
Elmoth said:
These screenshots just confirm what I already agree with.

"Mass Effect is changing (Has changed by now) its target audience, and I'm not in it. What started out as a thoughtful sci-fi setting with music designed to carry the Blade Runner vibe and dialogue that Picard could've spoken now became a goddamn Power Rangers episode full of space ninjas, space marines, anime and cringeworthy oneliners.

Enjoy selling to the 12-18 year old male demographic, Bioware. You are doubtlessly shifting your focus to this easily exploitable market because of your boundless artistic integrity."
Shut... the fuck... up...

If I accidentally read one more montage of stupid moronic statements...
You know what, fuck this site...
I was stupid to think that the people here had anything remotely resembling intelligence and thought.

You guys are just the Youtube comment section without the 500 character limitations.
Fuck You, and good day.
Rage, strike one, no arguments, strike three, talking down to the forums, strike three and you're out!
Please learn how to count before you dish out moronic childishness...
You edit my post and accuse me of childishness? Pretending like I can't count, that's low.
You accuse me of editing your post? That's low.
Ah duuuur no youuu. Yeah I'd like to continue this but I've had my fun (what little I could) now are you going or not?
Not quite, I'd like to see what more stupidity I can extract, I've extracted plenty and there's plenty more to come I'm sure.
I can see you are already starting to speak the increasingly popular tongue of stupid people,
"Ah duuuur no youuu" what exactly does it translate to in the now fading obsolete language of plain English?
Please respond, I eagerly await the idiocy that your feeble little mind will order your fingers to write.
 

crazyrabbits

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Jul 10, 2012
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Eddie the head said:
Because the 12-18 year old male demographic is somehow lesser than you? Because the demographic that you sit under is just so much better then those lesser ones. Maybe that's not what you meant by that, maybe you think it's ok to infer that you are better then the "unwashed masses." Regardless I don't much care you sounded arrogant, and I don't like arrogance.
Changing a game's target demographic is not a bad thing in and of itself, but EA makes it a habit, to the point of it being their defining characteristic.

Running down the list, we had:

Ultima (changed from an isometric RPG - one of the "founding fathers", so to speak - into a third-person hack-and-slash tailored for fans new to the series, losing its continuity in the process)

Command & Conquer (despite a couple good installments, EA tried to turn it into an FPS franchise, which was critically/commercially panned)

Nox (a multiplayer fantasy battle game turned into a single-player RPG over the objections of its developers)

The Sims (kept adding toilet humor to later installments and expansion, dulling down the material in the process)

Dragon Age (similar to Ultima; went from a traditional-style RPG heralded as one of the best franchises in recent years to a middling hack-and-slash that disregarded large chunks of story and character development)

Mass Effect (became a glorified third-person shooter with some RPG elements that was intended for new players - the difference between the first and third games are quite surprising)

It's a theme with EA. They take franchises that start out as mature, deep or thoughtful and gradually convert them into something else entirely, usually at the cost of the hardcore fanbase.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Aug 22, 2010
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crazyrabbits said:
Eddie the head said:
Mass Effect (became a glorified third-person shooter with some RPG elements that was intended for new players - the difference between the first and third games are quite surprising)
I don't care how 'RPG' it is, it seems retarded that a member of an elite special forces unit like Shepard is somehow incapable of holding or aiming a gun properly for about a third of the game.

I really liked ME1, it was a great game. Still is, but the combat is often frustrating because its cover and shoot mechanic was wonky. Perhaps what they need to do is stop calling it an RPG, and just call it what so many people seem to think it is: a Sci-fi action, 3rd Person Shooter. Nothing wrong with that, and I wish more games would emulate the formula of great characters, thrilling set pieces, wonderful romance and interesting universe design.