Mass Effect - Is what the reapers have been doing really evil?
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So, by your logic: The holocaust was okay because Judaism, like many religions before it, will eventually fade away.
I think the general rule with genocide is that is wrong. And althoguht its clear that the reapers do this cycle to reproduce by finding the most dominant specices and turning them into reapers, like what they tryed to do in Mass Effect 2. What your looking at this from is a Reapers point of view, im sure if i looked thought a Nazi's point of view of the holocaust my opinoins would be much different. The Nazis believed that the Jews must be exterminated for the good of the German people, the Reapers think the same.
Excellent point, but lets not forget the purpose of their galactic culls isn't just for self-preservation, but for propagation. As a partially cybernetic race their breeding cycle involves essentially stealing the genetic blueprint of whatever race is dominant at the time of the cull, and using it to create [a] new reaperevilthecat said:
Some very good responses...definatly got me thinking. This one by evilthecat really changed my mind though.
evilthecat said:
really? i must have missed this and i've played both games multiple times. granted my memory of ME1 is a bit fuzzy at this point, but i never recall sovereign or harbinger ever saying they protect us from beyond the galaxy threats.Dreey said:
that said and back on topic, whether you feel what the reapers do is evil or not depends on how far you want to stretch the definitions of evolution and survival of the fittest. in one sense the reapers are no different than a virus that we have no defense for that subsequently wipes out all life in the galaxy (if such a virus were possible).
but the reapers don't destroy all life, they subjugate it. and they do it before that life has a chance to be a threat to them. that is intentional and is by most definitions evil.
in some ways they are no different than man on planet earth, such that we have the capacity to manipulate, control and destroy life on this planet and in some cases we do. i wobble on whether civilizations who either through ignorance or choice obliterate other species is a form of evolution and survival of the fittest.
Good and evil are only in the eye of the beholder. They don't think they are evil thus they aren't to themselves. They see you as evil this you are the evil one.
I agree with much you say, The Reapers do seem to behave in a parasitic manner towards the galaxy.evilthecat said:
But I've been thinking about the Rachni, As i see it sometimes there must be a race who develop on their own and not along the path that the Reapers have put down and i think the Rachni is one of them - this is pure speculation - I don't think the Rahni is using Mass Effect technology and as such they are a threat and an unknown factor that doesn't really fit into the Reapers plans, That's why Sovereign instigate the war with the council races to wipe out the Rachni.
Actually, this kind of storyline has been cycling through global culture for milennia: ancient, powerful, seemingly unbeatable threat rises from the shadows to kill us all.Ghostwise said:
Every civilization has tales of its ultimate doom. The best example of this is the Norse concept of Ragnorok, in which all of the gods, giants, monsters, and heroes of Norse myth would meet on Midgard (the in-between world... where humans live) and fight until no one was left standing and nothing of the world remained. So that a new one could emerge.
(by the way, the revived Battlestar Galactica took SEVERAL hints from Babylong 5)
To us, facing the utter annihilation of our collective races, it is the pinnacle of evil.
To they, who probably view us somewhere between tap water and a swarm of gnats, not so much.
The problem is that the two perspectives are so vastly different that I don't really see a common ground from which we could all agree on way to attribute their actions in a moral framework.
To they, who probably view us somewhere between tap water and a swarm of gnats, not so much.
The problem is that the two perspectives are so vastly different that I don't really see a common ground from which we could all agree on way to attribute their actions in a moral framework.
Your example is null and void, in Mass Effect 2 it's implied that the Rachni were corrupted by Reaper indoctrination, which means the Reapers were directly responsible for one of the bloodiest wars in the Galaxy, and indirectly for the genophage, as if they never indoctrinated the Rachni, the Krogans would've never been uplifted, adapted to their situation and calmed as a race before they got into space, averting the Krogan Rebellions and the genophage.
Also, mass-genocide is never alright. It's shown that the Reapers target the Galactic Community when they reach a certain level, you can talk all you want about empires crumbling, but those Empires usually peaked long ago, whilst the empires the Reapers destroyed probably had not reached their full potential yet.
Also, mass-genocide is never alright. It's shown that the Reapers target the Galactic Community when they reach a certain level, you can talk all you want about empires crumbling, but those Empires usually peaked long ago, whilst the empires the Reapers destroyed probably had not reached their full potential yet.
Also, you see what they use some of the races for when they do start their harvest: They MELT THEM DOWN to make an exoskeleton, while the people are completely conscious. The Reapers are UNDOUBTEDLY evil, or at least evil by our definition of evil.
At the risk of sounding like a Reaper:
Every organic has struggled against the inevitable. They're/We're always going to fight death even though we can't win.
Also, evil is a point of view, so no they aren't evil.
Every organic has struggled against the inevitable. They're/We're always going to fight death even though we can't win.
Also, evil is a point of view, so no they aren't evil.
Yeah well if you throw a net that broad then you might as well claim that Mass Effect is a rip-off of Babylon 5.Ghostwise said:Really?! Geth=Cylons, Quarians=Colonials. The Geth/Reapers are out to wipe out humanity like they have done so many times before to start civilization anew. The Cylons are out to wipe out humanity like they have done so many times before to start civilization anew. Sure Battlestar ened quite differently and epic in it's own right but the core fundamental plot concept is damned near identical. Just sayin.Cooperblack said:If i were to make a list of 20 sci-fi shows that i think Mass Effect took inspiration from, Battlestar Galactica wouldn't be on it.Ghostwise said:Is that a wow because you think I'm right or because you think I am dead wrong? I stand by my statement either way! I'm a dork!Cooperblack said:
In any case Bioware has confessed that the main inspiration for the Reapers comes from H.P Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos.
I never really thought of the Reapers as evil, (similar to my response to Movie Bobs Halo theory) I just thought they wanted to kill me and y'know that was kinda the opposite of my goals.
The key point for me was what they are/what the are doing is incomprehensible so they might have a good reason, they might not either way I'm(Shepard) sure as hell not going to go quietly into the night just on their say so.
The key point for me was what they are/what the are doing is incomprehensible so they might have a good reason, they might not either way I'm(Shepard) sure as hell not going to go quietly into the night just on their say so.
I don't know if Bioware have read Asimov's Foundation and Earth, but the ending is remarkably similar to this theory. For those of you who haven't read it;Dreey said:
Trevize (the main character) at the end of Foundation's Edge decides to allow the entire galaxy to be developed into an enormous collective consciousness; like a hive mind, but every person within retains their individuality. He then spends the better part of Foundation and Earth wondering why; there already existed a sceintifically proven 'optimum path' (called the Seldon plan) for humanity, and this decision did not agree with its predictions. Trevize, after much reflection, realises that the Plan had a flaw; it assumed that Humanity was the only intelligent species in the universe. Thus, it is in the context of an entire universe full of galaxies and potentially hostile species that his decision makes sense.
So, the Reapers' actions would make sense if;
They were attempting to prepare the milky way galaxy for an inevitable conflict with another galaxy; I'm fairly sure not even the reapers posess intergalactic travel.... Or they could be recruiting for a massive intergalactic invasion.
See... that's the problem... they don't allow to wither and die. Think about it like this, you have a neighbour lady, she's going to become an old grandma and die eventually. You wouldn't go into her house, kill her and steal all her technological advantages or something less advanced but still valuable she possesses. If it's not ok to do it to a single person, why would it be ok to do it to a whole galactic civilization?Shiftshaper said:
P.S: don't know about you, but my main beef with those bastards is the destruction of Normandy SR1. You can break into my galaxy, abduct people, destroy planets, replace council with muppets (oh, you've done that already? No wonder) BUT DO NOT F**K WITH A MAN'S PERSONAL TRANSPORTATION. SRSLY! XD
<quote= Sovereign>We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.
Yea....sounds pretty evil to me.
Yea....sounds pretty evil to me.
