Mass Effect - Is what the reapers have been doing really evil?

[Therumancer]

Okay so Mass Effect is amazing, no doubt about that. But lately I have been thinking about the plot and how the reapers have been set up as the big threat that the player has to overcome. And how we are clearly ment to despise and be disgusted by the reapers. But take a look at the greater picture here, is what they've been doing for who knows how long really evil?

Every empire in the history of the world has crumbled. No matter how great, how powerful, in the end it fell apart and another superpower replaced it. And not just human constructions either, I dont need to tell you that everything that exists grows, flourishes, then withers and dies. And shouldnt that be the way things are supposed to be? Life is supposed to be constantly changing, if it simply reached a peak and stayed there forever there would be no point to life would there?

Lets say that in the Mass Effect universe the reapers never existed, and the citadel was built by the council races. What if they lost the war with the Rachni, and the telepathic bug race wiped them from the face of the galaxy. They would keep growing, expanding, swallowing every form of life it would come across, killing diversity and stopping new forms of life from developing. It would be a pretty bleek universe wouldnt it? And there must have been plenty of times the reapers encountered one warmongering race that was dominating the galaxy, enslaving and killing all opposers.

Even if a peaceful race or council prospered into complete control of the universe, Advancing as far as a civilization could, how would that be a good thing? Life would cease to be unpredictable and everchanging. It would become a dull utopia.

If you think about it really, the main quest in mass effect is one in which the player needs to defeat TIME AND DEATH ITSELF. Because isnt thst what the reapers represent? The fact that we ultimately have no control over life and that everyone and everything we know will eventually be gone.

Let me know what you think fellow escapists, do you agree, or do you have a different viewpoint?

Well a Utopia by it's very nature is perfect, I don't think it could ever be achieved, but if it was, it wouldn't be "dull" it would have a way of making everyone satisfied. It would be like heaven on the mortal plane.

That said, I do not personally believe that a cycle of death and rebirth is nessicary or inherant in existance. What's more I personally think there will always be something new out there to experience.

That said, the idea of beings that destroy everything and start over has existed in mythology. The thing is that the Reapers are machines, not some kind of gods or universal force. Someone made them, and until we know why and for what purpose it's impossible to make any real judgements. I suppose I'm cynical enough where if the picture was big enough even what they are doing could be seen as a greater good so to speak. Say for example if they are operating pan dimensionally (which might be the case). Periodically exterminating one reality (with with tons of planets and galaxies and such) for the sake of billions of others might put a differant perspective on things, albiet nobody wants to be on the receiving end.

Truthfully though, I suspect the reapers are a transferred intelligence system given what was said. Probably begun by one species that put themselves into a giant Spaceship/Database. They periodically show up, choose the most worthy species, forcibly transfer it's minds into a database while constructing a ship around it that fits the nature of the species, and exterminating all other races of that time. A reproduction cycle that acts as a sort of cosmic lottery. That would be my guess at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point someone gets their mind sucked into a reaper and finds there is an entire Virtual Reality in which the entire species exists and makes desicians based on some kind of hyper-speed democratic process. Hence the whole situation where each is effectively "a nation".

We shall see where it goes though, the biggest test of the Mass Effect universe is to see if they can come up with answers worthy of the mysteries they have established so far.

 

[Denamic]

Genocide.
/thread

No really, I don't see why there's even any argument beyond this.
They're out to commit the absolutely most ultimate evil act possible from our point of view.
They're the evillest existence in the galaxy.

 

[webzu]

The reapers have done this before and they will do it again. Just like the Cylons in Battlestar Galactica. The major plotline was almost ripped straight from Battlestar.

Actually, this kind of storyline has been cycling through global culture for milennia: ancient, powerful, seemingly unbeatable threat rises from the shadows to kill us all.

Every civilization has tales of its ultimate doom. The best example of this is the Norse concept of Ragnorok, in which all of the gods, giants, monsters, and heroes of Norse myth would meet on Midgard (the in-between world... where humans live) and fight until no one was left standing and nothing of the world remained. So that a new one could emerge.

(by the way, the revived Battlestar Galactica took SEVERAL hints from Babylong 5)

not to be a total myth geek but the battle was supposed to be at "Vígríður"(Icelandic) or English "Vígríðr"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnar%C3%B6k

other than that, good post.
and OT: I think it's pretty evil from our viewpoint but from theirs it is neccecary(?) but ofc I wonder... Who made the reapers to begin with and why? was it like what the quarians did or was it on purpose?

 

[WorldCritic]

Yep, their evil, we have to stop them, I'm gonna kill them, and the cycle continues. Simple as that.

 

[Wutaiflea]

Since the Reapers are looking to survive via genocide (reproducing a new reaper etc) and the rest of the galaxy (humans, turians, asari etc) are looking to survive by going un-genocide-d, good and evil will more or less come down to which side you're on.

That's the way I view it, and since I'm playing a human commander in this rigmarole, I'm on the side of "Reapers Suck" by default.

 

[thenoblitt]

yes raising creatures just to "harvest" them is evil regardless of reason, you can use the argument that people do that with cows and pigs and other creatures but then you would just be assuming that i dont think people are evil (which i do)

 

[DustyDrB]

The reapers have done this before and they will do it again. Just like the Cylons in Battlestar Galactica. The major plotline was almost ripped straight from Battlestar.

Prediction: Mass Effect 3 opens with a version of "All Along the Watchtower"

 

[ExaltedK9]

The reapers are most definitely evil. Theres not much more for me to add here because its most already been said.

Reapers R bad.

 

[Something Amyss]

Repeated genocide = bad

Especially when you're doing it to effectively harvest them.

 

[Jfswift]

The reapers definitely are evil since they follow their own selfish ends, at the expense of all the other races. They also trick and use the geth, and resort to methods like mind control over others. They are not death and time as they are subject to the same forces just like any other living being (just over a longer span than normal).

 

[spartan231490]

Of course they're evil. It's not like they are pruning civilization and tech, they are destroying all sentient life in the galaxy for thier own ends, by what definition can this not be evil?

 

[Savagezion]

Even if a peaceful race or council prospered into complete control of the universe, Advancing as far as a civilization could, how would that be a good thing? Life would cease to be unpredictable and everchanging. It would become a dull utopia.

Yes, that would indeed be a good thing. Dull utopia does not compute. Life is unpredictable because of free will not because of death. It would also still change to some degree. You sound like a guy looking to buy a volcano for his secret base where he will create a death ray. Hehe.

If you think about it really, the main quest in mass effect is one in which the player needs to defeat TIME AND DEATH ITSELF. Because isnt thst what the reapers represent? The fact that we ultimately have no control over life and that everyone and everything we know will eventually be gone.

I think that the reapers represent the fear of death for sure but not time neccesarily so much as the uncertainty in why and how the universe came to be. It is the very question of "why are we here?" And the most horrifying speculations and fears of it. Just how much do we matter I guess.

 

[Abedeus]

Pretty sure destroying all sentient life in the universe might be considered bad. Those... googleplexes of beings being eradicated? Definitely a bad thing.

 

[Kimarous]

<quote= Sovereign>We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

Yea....sounds pretty evil to me.

That quote cannot be stressed enough. Nobody can say that and be considered "good."

 

[LarenzoAOG]

Even if a peaceful race or council prospered into complete control of the universe, Advancing as far as a civilization could, how would that be a good thing? Life would cease to be unpredictable and everchanging. It would become a dull utopia.

Life would be unpredictable and everchanging, thats life baby. You can't change that life will change, that's what makes it life, if the U.N. declared world peace forever and poverty, violence, crime, and hatred were eradicated we'd still be in for a wild ride. Also, while evertything does end that doesn't mean that ending it prematurley is good, Polar Bears will be gone one day, right? So hunting them to extinction is OK? The Reapers are far worse beacuse they are hunting down all intelligent life to extinction, so the answer is no, it's not good what the Reapers are doing.

 

[MetroidNut]

You could argue that a Reaper-less galaxy would stagnate, I suppose. But then again, don't the Reapers also stop civilizations from achieving greatness? Spoilers ahead. By influencing the development of each civilization (largely through the mass relays and the Citadel) the Reapers deliberately prevent civilizations from innovating, and finding their own solutions to problems. They make sure no alternative faster-than-light travel will ever be devised, and galactic government will always be seated on the Citadel. The Reapers then destroy civilization before it can really create anything that isn't indirectly based off Reaper technology.

Short version? I think Reapers cause the galaxy to stagnate, rather than preventing it.

 

[Amethyst Wind]

The entire plot's a metaphor for free will vs determinism decreed by a higher power. It's even lampshaded in ME2 when a video log refers to a Reaper as a god.

So the good vs evil debate stems from whether you believe we should have free will or not.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Is it evil in the strictest sense? Not really, but only if you frame the question properly. With most philosophical models, you would probably find that their action would qualify as evil however. Indeed, it is only if you start by assuming that the Reapers are, for all intents and purposes gods, that you find there being a basis for their actions to be seen as anything other than evil.

 

[Good morning blues]

You're right. A foreign entity coming and committing genocide against every sentient creature is exactly the same as the decline of the British Empire.