May Daggerdale represents the peak of failure for Action RPGs

[Judgement101]

I though Too Human was the peak of failure in all catagories.

 

[Trolldor]

I though Too Human was the peak of failure in all catagories.

Clearly never played Dragon Age 2 then.

 

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Actually, there was an XBox game called D&D Heroes that came out 2003, though it didn't strictly abide by the D&D rules.
But from what I've seen of Daggerdale, which is not very much, it's a lot like Heroes, which wasn't so bad.

D&D Heroes, BGDA, and Daggerdale are action adventure games. Stats, stores, and D&D or Forgotten Realms on the cover does not make them RPGs. Way of the Samurai is a real action RPG. You could argue that Shenmue is more of an RPG and it doesnt have stats.

Action RPGs generally suck developers try to merge diametrically opposed gameplay styles. Action adventure is all about direct player input. Its less about strategy and tactics and more the players ability to react instantly and correctly. RPGs are built around systems that remove direct player influence through statistics. The intention is for the player to focus on the overarching flow of a fight by applying their characters correctly, rather than worrying about every individual sword swing. This is especially important when gameplay is built around group scenarios.

Now how do you merge genres that try to achieve opposite things? Its something developers still struggle with. To combat this scenario, many devs have tried to boil each genre to its simplest principles. The result however, is action gameplay where you never feel truly in control, and RPG elements that aren't anywhere near as fulfilling. I'm sure when we've played action RPGs we've died to a boss because even though you kicked its ass, its health bar wouldn't budge and it would maim your character in two hits? Simplistic or nonexistent combo systems? Threadbare skill trees? Yeah we've all seen that.

Its just an unfortunate trend that we've been seeing. Action RPGs are fun, but that turn based/RTwP systems are "outdated" because there isn't SICK NEXT GEN ACTION is ridiculous.

I don't even break it down that much. Statistical influence can carry a lot of weight and usually supersedes player skill by a much larger margain than it would in a strategy game. Try beating Zelda with 3 hearts. Same is true in sports games. A shitty QB and a shitty WR will result in a poor completion percentage no matter how skilled the player is. There are some exceptions where I would agree strongly with you namely Mass Effect 2. In ME 1 you had to boost your shooting or the targeting was sluggish. In ME 2 there was no shooting stats. Still I think the real problem is that developers use 'RPG' as a excuse to waylay us with terribly simple action combat. Like with Fable's one button shit. At least Fable was a real RPG outside of combat albeit flawed. These Dark Alliance type games are nothing but combat and there are only like two or three attacks a roll and a block. If thats the best they can do then stick with turnbased or RTwP.

 

[Hyper-space]

The only difference is the camera, multiplayer and the fact that Ninja Gaiden offers three times the attacks and combos so it doesn?t degenerate into a button masher (as easily). The actual RPG side to BGDA and Diablo is negligible in comparison to most action adventure games which usually feature their share of character development. BGDA is Ninja Gaiden without the gameplay and with co-op. I would rather have online multiplayer in a game like Ninja Gaiden then rinse and repeat another round in Castle Crasher. That format has shot its wad. Its old now.

I think the difference is a bit more than just the camera and multiplayer. There's things like how you control the character, in Diablo and such all of your actions are because of mouse-clicking (haven't played Dark alliance, so dunno bout that), whereas in Ninja Gaiden many actions come from movement (analog sticks and such).

So comparing a dungeon crawler to an action-adventure title (not action RPG) is kind of silly.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

I though Too Human was the peak of failure in all catagories.

Nah. That's fun enough when you actually learn what the silly weapon/armor bonuses mean. And if you co-op with a player of the same level. Or just play Defender, which is immune to bullshit knockdowns. If Too Human is the worst game you've ever played, I envy you.

 

[Kaanyr Vhok]

I though Too Human was the peak of failure in all catagories.

Nah. That's fun enough when you actually learn what the silly weapon/armor bonuses mean. And if you co-op with a player of the same level. Or just play Defender, which is immune to bullshit knockdowns. If Too Human is the worst game you've ever played, I envy you.

I give Silicon Knights some points for effort. The game was in development for the PS 1. Atari rushed Daggersmack out to ride Torchlight's coattails on Live Arcade. Thats what those monkeys have reduced the D&D license to. Torchlight's coattails. They are running adds on facebook right now talking about how if you liked Torchlight you will like Daggerdale. But hey 4th edition followed the MMO/WoW crowed so you cant expect Atari to be forward thinking.

I think the difference is a bit more than just the camera and multiplayer. There's things like how you control the character, in Diablo and such all of your actions are because of mouse-clicking (haven't played Dark alliance, so dunno bout that), whereas in Ninja Gaiden many actions come from movement (analog sticks and such).

So comparing a dungeon crawler to an action-adventure title (not action RPG) is kind of silly.

Its still targeting the same experience (fight, collect, improve) with the only thing lacking being multiplayer. Diablo was also a console game so mouse clicking isn't a real difference.

 

[Hyper-space]

Its still targeting the same experience (fight, collect, improve) with the only thing lacking being multiplayer. Diablo was also a console game so mouse clicking isn't a real difference.

Fighting, Collecting and improving are too generic of an experience, theres tons of different games of different genres that embody that same experience. Hell, most RPGs are about fighting, collecting and improving, so comparing Diablo to Ninja Gaiden would be like comparing the Elder Scrolls to Digimon World because the experience is figthing, collecting and improving.

Compare Ninja Gaiden with an action-adventure title, not a dungeon crawler, as action-adventure titles incorporate much physical challenges than a game like Diablo.

 

[Keava]

On one hand it's a 15 dollars 'arcade' game, not really RPG or [prefix] RPG all that much. Now the problem with it, is that's just badly designed, in co-op the camera is wonky, only one player can use shop at time, the combat feels silly and the visuals are, well, let's say some indie games look better.

I don't know what the aim of this game was, either it was an intro to the D&D universe for the new gamers, something even 'cool bros' could enjoy between bottles of beer, or a whack-em-all braindead game to just mindlessly relax with - like Diablo always been for me (flame on!). One thing for sure, it's not RPG as would a table top roleplayer define the genre.

 

[veloper]

Wonder why they even bothered making it at all.

DD is a piss poor diablo-clone that nobody will buy and a D&D licence won't come cheap.

Sure it has the D&D licence, but it has so little to do with the core mechanics, D&D players won't fall for it.
Either do it right(4E ruleset) or don't bother with the license at all.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

you lost all credibility when you said "action adventure is the laziest genre"

obviously you're the "can't be pleased by anythign unless no one but me enjoys it" person and you should just stop trolling people who like video games to be FUN, not inaccessible and archaic.

 

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Fighting, Collecting and improving are too generic of an experience, theres tons of different games of different genres that embody that same experience. Hell, most RPGs are about fighting, collecting and improving, so comparing Diablo to Ninja Gaiden would be like comparing the Elder Scrolls to Digimon World because the experience is figthing, collecting and improving.

In BGDA and Diablo that is all you do. I?m not comparing it to RPGs that have choice and consequence, exploration or tactical combat. Those I would say are different games. BGDA is nothing but fighting, stores and stats. It has the exact same pace as Ninja Gaiden or DMC so I cant forgive the fact that the fighting sucks because it calls itself an RPG. The fighting sucked in Bloodlines but that was an RPG first an action/shooter 2nd. BGDA is no more RPG than Ninja Gaiden so I judge it for what it is being walking (adventure) and fighting (action) same with Daggerdale. Daggerdale is a shitty action adventure game with co-op in a setting that I personally love but wouldn?t enjoy in such a base game.

Compare Ninja Gaiden with an action-adventure title, not a dungeon crawler, as action-adventure titles incorporate much physical challenges than a game like Diablo.

Which is why games like Diablo need rich multiplayer to be viable as party games else they are cheap excuses for action adventure games.

you lost all credibility when you said "action adventure is the laziest genre"

obviously you're the "can't be pleased by anythign unless no one but me enjoys it" person and you should just stop trolling people who like video games to be FUN, not inaccessible and archaic.

I'm not alone. Most of these games got lousy reviews. Even Conan which I liked got a metric 70. We all know how generous the reviews are; anything under 75 is usally shit.

http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?site=xbox360&page=1&cat=163


http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?site=xbox360&cat=85&year=0&numrev=3&sort=0&letter=&search=

Action platformers are the worse. Ok if you want to get technical and separate platformer from adventure these games are by far the most unambitious.

http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?site=xbox360&page=1&cat=163

Look at the low bros in Action RPG. Take out Mass Effect and there are no 90s. Take out Fable and there is nothing above an 83.

I'm not just going by reviews. The worst reviews are the bad fps. But most of those games are just failures. They have a little bit more originality.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

Fighting, Collecting and improving are too generic of an experience, theres tons of different games of different genres that embody that same experience. Hell, most RPGs are about fighting, collecting and improving, so comparing Diablo to Ninja Gaiden would be like comparing the Elder Scrolls to Digimon World because the experience is figthing, collecting and improving.

In BGDA and Diablo that is all you do. I?m not comparing it to RPGs that have choice and consequence, exploration or tactical combat. Those I would say are different games. BGDA is nothing but fighting, stores and stats. It has the exact same pace as Ninja Gaiden or DMC so I cant forgive the fact that the fighting sucks because it calls itself an RPG. The fighting sucked in Bloodlines but that was an RPG first an action/shooter 2nd. BGDA is no more RPG than Ninja Gaiden so I judge it for what it is being walking (adventure) and fighting (action) same with Daggerdale. Daggerdale is a shitty action adventure game with co-op in a setting that I personally love but wouldn?t enjoy in such a base game.

Compare Ninja Gaiden with an action-adventure title, not a dungeon crawler, as action-adventure titles incorporate much physical challenges than a game like Diablo.

Which is why games like Diablo need rich multiplayer to be viable as party games else they are cheap excuses for action adventure games.

you lost all credibility when you said "action adventure is the laziest genre"

obviously you're the "can't be pleased by anythign unless no one but me enjoys it" person and you should just stop trolling people who like video games to be FUN, not inaccessible and archaic.

I'm not alone. Most of these games got lousy reviews. Even Conan which I liked got a metric 70. We all know how generous the reviews are; anything under 75 is usally shit.

http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?site=xbox360&page=1&cat=163


http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?site=xbox360&cat=85&year=0&numrev=3&sort=0&letter=&search=

Action platformers are the worse. Ok if you want to get technical and separate platformer from adventure these games are by far the most unambitious.

http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?site=xbox360&page=1&cat=163

Look at the low bros in Action RPG. Take out Mass Effect and there are no 90s. Take out Fable and there is nothing above an 83.

I'm not just going by reviews. The worst reviews are the bad fps. But most of those games are just failures. They have a little bit more originality.

maybe you haven't heard of a little game called "Zelda: Ocarina of Time"?
or Grand Theft Auto?
or Saints Row?
or Red Dead Redemption?
or Enslaved: Odyssey to the West?
or Dead Rising?
or Crackdown?
or InFamous?
or Uncharted?
or Brutal Legend?
or Psychonauts?
(just goes to show... this can go on forever, you logic is just false. not even a fallacy, just false)

and you're using METACRITIC to decide a game's worth? wow, yeah, you're not worth listening to at all. Or even arguing with.

all the above are considered Action/Adventure titles

 

[Kaanyr Vhok]

maybe you haven't heard of a little game called "Zelda: Ocarina of Time"?
or Grand Theft Auto?
or Saints Row?
or Red Dead Redemption?
or Enslaved: Odyssey to the West?
or Dead Rising?
or Crackdown?
or InFamous?
or Uncharted?
or Brutal Legend?
or Psychonauts?
(just goes to show... this can go on forever, you logic is just false. not even a fallacy, just false)

and you're using METACRITIC to decide a game's worth? wow, yeah, you're not worth listening to at all. Or even arguing with.

all the above are considered Action/Adventure titles

You couldnt even stick with one platform or this generation yet your list still has at least one turd in Enslaved.


How bout this?


Rayman Raving Rabbids
Lucidity
Spider-Man 3
Bionic Commando Rearmed 2
Fatshark
The Legend of Spyro: Dawn of the Dragon
Sonic Unleashed
Crash: Mind Over Mutant
Ratatouille
Open Season
Where the Wild Things Are
Space Chimps
WALL-E
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Team/Sega, 2010 52.08%
Prince of Persia: Epilogue
Brave: A Warrior's Tale
Totems
Sonic Generations
Nomis: Legacy Islands
Plucky's 3D Adventure
The Maw: Speeder Lane
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
Ninja Blade
Too Human
Monsters vs. Aliens
Alone in the Dark
Arkadian Warriors
Hydrophobia
Saw
TRON: Evolution
Lost: Via Domus
Bionicle Heroes
Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
Tenchu Z
The Lord of the Rings: Conquest
Beowulf: The Game
Transformers: The Game
Saw II: Flesh & Blood
Eragon
Ghostbusters: Sanctum of Slime
Star Wars The Clone Wars: Republic Heroes
Clash of the Titans
The Golden Compass
Destroy All Humans! Path of the Furon
Vampire Rain


That is one platform same generation.

I rest my case.

 

[Trolldor]

I though Too Human was the peak of failure in all catagories.

Clearly never played Dragon Age 2 then.

trolling much?
why yes you are as it is in your name.
the world will thank you to stop talking out of your ass.

I lol'd.

I can translate your post in to English if you'd like:

"How dare he have an opinion contrary to my own! The scurvy dog!"

 

[Kahunaburger]

maybe you haven't heard of a little game called "Zelda: Ocarina of Time"?
or Grand Theft Auto?
or Saints Row?
or Red Dead Redemption?
or Enslaved: Odyssey to the West?
or Dead Rising?
or Crackdown?
or InFamous?
or Uncharted?
or Brutal Legend?
or Psychonauts?
(just goes to show... this can go on forever, you logic is just false. not even a fallacy, just false)

and you're using METACRITIC to decide a game's worth? wow, yeah, you're not worth listening to at all. Or even arguing with.

all the above are considered Action/Adventure titles

You couldnt even stick with one platform or this generation yet your list still has at least one turd in Enslaved.


How bout this?


Rayman Raving Rabbids
Lucidity
Spider-Man 3
Bionic Commando Rearmed 2
Fatshark
The Legend of Spyro: Dawn of the Dragon
Sonic Unleashed
Crash: Mind Over Mutant
Ratatouille
Open Season
Where the Wild Things Are
Space Chimps
WALL-E
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Team/Sega, 2010 52.08%
Prince of Persia: Epilogue
Brave: A Warrior's Tale
Totems
Sonic Generations
Nomis: Legacy Islands
Plucky's 3D Adventure
The Maw: Speeder Lane
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
Ninja Blade
Too Human
Monsters vs. Aliens
Alone in the Dark
Arkadian Warriors
Hydrophobia
Saw
TRON: Evolution
Lost: Via Domus
Bionicle Heroes
Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
Tenchu Z
The Lord of the Rings: Conquest
Beowulf: The Game
Transformers: The Game
Saw II: Flesh & Blood
Eragon
Ghostbusters: Sanctum of Slime
Star Wars The Clone Wars: Republic Heroes
Clash of the Titans
The Golden Compass
Destroy All Humans! Path of the Furon
Vampire Rain


That is one platform same generation.

I rest my case.

Sturgeon's law.

"Action-adventere," as Yahtzee put it, is what the invisible pigeonholing council decides games that don't easily fit into a genre is called. Compare "drama" and "literary fiction." They don't have enough things in common for it to be possible to make blanket judgments on them.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

maybe you haven't heard of a little game called "Zelda: Ocarina of Time"?
or Grand Theft Auto?
or Saints Row?
or Red Dead Redemption?
or Enslaved: Odyssey to the West?
or Dead Rising?
or Crackdown?
or InFamous?
or Uncharted?
or Brutal Legend?
or Psychonauts?
(just goes to show... this can go on forever, you logic is just false. not even a fallacy, just false)

and you're using METACRITIC to decide a game's worth? wow, yeah, you're not worth listening to at all. Or even arguing with.

all the above are considered Action/Adventure titles

You couldnt even stick with one platform or this generation yet your list still has at least one turd in Enslaved.


How bout this?


Rayman Raving Rabbids
Lucidity
Spider-Man 3
Bionic Commando Rearmed 2
Fatshark
The Legend of Spyro: Dawn of the Dragon
Sonic Unleashed
Crash: Mind Over Mutant
Ratatouille
Open Season
Where the Wild Things Are
Space Chimps
WALL-E
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Team/Sega, 2010 52.08%
Prince of Persia: Epilogue
Brave: A Warrior's Tale
Totems
Sonic Generations
Nomis: Legacy Islands
Plucky's 3D Adventure
The Maw: Speeder Lane
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
Ninja Blade
Too Human
Monsters vs. Aliens
Alone in the Dark
Arkadian Warriors
Hydrophobia
Saw
TRON: Evolution
Lost: Via Domus
Bionicle Heroes
Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
Tenchu Z
The Lord of the Rings: Conquest
Beowulf: The Game
Transformers: The Game
Saw II: Flesh & Blood
Eragon
Ghostbusters: Sanctum of Slime
Star Wars The Clone Wars: Republic Heroes
Clash of the Titans
The Golden Compass
Destroy All Humans! Path of the Furon
Vampire Rain


That is one platform same generation.

I rest my case.

most of what you listed is just crappy licensed titles. again, stop trolling.

 

[Gigatoast]

So another member of the "Retro PC Master Race" has their panties in a twist, seems like a common theme on these forums. I like all sorts of games on all sorts of platforms and you don't see me raging up a storm when a bad game that I'm never going to play comes out.