May Daggerdale represents the peak of failure for Action RPGs

[Lazy Kitty]

Actually, Daggerdale looks like something I'd like to play.

 

[Pearwood]

The most unambitious genre is the action adventure game.

To be honest it seems that you'll only be happy with a style of game design that has long since gone out of fashion, it's nothing to do with games becoming more casual. I'm not sure what there is to say, you aren't going to convert anyone to your point of view and chances are you're not going to have your very specific tastes catered to by developers. I can think of a few good D&D games off the top of my head, Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, if you haven't played those then I recommend them otherwise I don't think there's anything to say. Things like Heavy Rain or Indigo Prophecy might suit you but you're really shutting yourself into a very small niche.

I think you should stop weighing reviews so heavily as well, I like plenty of games that have got bad reviews or are obscure enough not to have any reviews on Metacritic.

 

[Canadish]

Just watched AngryJoe's lets play myself.

It's not even worth debating about. The game is garbage. Just bland, brown and buggy.

 

[shrekfan246]

ITS BOTH THE PHYSICALITY AND CONTROLS THAT MAKE IT DIFFERENT, FUCK.

In ninja gaiden there are challenges that test movement skills, such as running along walls and other acrobatic feats, therefore the movements are not controlled by mouse-clicks and restricted to walking only. The same is with the combat, you are not restricted to an isometric-view and the combat requires different method of aiming your attacks than in Diablo. Ninja gaiden, however doesn't have any classes or the abundance of items/spells/abilities that Diablo has, as its not an RPG. Which means that the developers (team ninja) had different goals in mind when making the game, compared to Blizzard.

Now these two key differences (how player agency affects the character and the developers focus) are enough of a difference that comparing these two games is utterly fucking ridiculous. Can't believe i even have to explain something as simple as this to you.

Not to mention that he compared Diablo to Devil May Cry. I don't even have the words to describe how ignorant that is.

OT: I'm actually a bit endeared to this person who is so determined to stick by his D&D roots that he will despise anything that doesn't stick strictly to the classic set-up. I have a feeling that he would probably not even enjoy Neverwinter Nights because it simply uses a version of the D&D rules that weren't made back in the 70's.

 

[veloper]

Either do it right(4E ruleset) or don't bother with the license at all.

[HEADING=1]4...... E?????[/HEADING]

FFFFFFFFFFFFF.....Just kidding, you know how some old timey D&D DMs are...

On topic, this game looks very weak/derivative, doing little to leverage either the D&D license or the latent potential for fun in dungeon crawling.

I would figure the old timers might like 4e since its the love child of WoW and 1e. Its us 3.5 types that should take issue.

Any faithful implementation of 2E, 3.5E, pathfinder or 4E ruleset could win me over, but just think how well 4E could be adapted to a computer game.

I'd totally dig a turn-based, 100% accurate implementation of 4E in a CRPG. Even with dated visuals on par with say BG2, I'd pay full price for that.
Add 5 or more controllable NPC companions, excellent dungeon dungeon design, a bit of non-linearity and a mediocre story and I'd be sold.
Orgasm.

 

[Jandau]

I get the impression that the OP is really angry and really likes Shenmue, but most of the rest is somewhat incoherent, so could someone fill me in?

 

[Zay-el]

Rayman Raving Rabbids
Lucidity
Spider-Man 3
Bionic Commando Rearmed 2
Fatshark
The Legend of Spyro: Dawn of the Dragon
Sonic Unleashed
Crash: Mind Over Mutant
Ratatouille
Open Season
Where the Wild Things Are
Space Chimps
WALL-E
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Team/Sega, 2010 52.08%
Prince of Persia: Epilogue
Brave: A Warrior's Tale
Totems
Sonic Generations
Nomis: Legacy Islands
Plucky's 3D Adventure
The Maw: Speeder Lane
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
Ninja Blade
Too Human
Monsters vs. Aliens
Alone in the Dark
Arkadian Warriors
Hydrophobia
Saw
TRON: Evolution
Lost: Via Domus
Bionicle Heroes
Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
Tenchu Z
The Lord of the Rings: Conquest
Beowulf: The Game
Transformers: The Game
Saw II: Flesh & Blood
Eragon
Ghostbusters: Sanctum of Slime
Star Wars The Clone Wars: Republic Heroes
Clash of the Titans
The Golden Compass
Destroy All Humans! Path of the Furon
Vampire Rain


That is one platform same generation.

I rest my case.

So we have, let's see...several sequels(which you should know very well usually DON'T work out too well and most of these are pretty much X+1 sequels), a lot of movie licensed games(which EVERYONE knows are crap) and....

Rayman Raving Rabbids? Are you kidding me? So what, now Mario Party counts as action-adventure, too?

 

[RoBi3.0]

Wonder why they even bothered making it at all.

DD is a piss poor diablo-clone that nobody will buy and a D&D licence won't come cheap.

Sure it has the D&D licence, but it has so little to do with the core mechanics, D&D players won't fall for it.
Either do it right(4E ruleset) or don't bother with the license at all.

I haven't played the game yet so I cant speak for its mechanic or game play.

I just wanted to point out that Atari owns the rights to DnD related games til 2016. I doubt it is really costing that much to slap DnD on a game and call it a day, in fact that sounds so very much like Atari.

 

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Nope, Dark Alliance I and II are the only forgotten realms I've ever played, though I did try Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows and wasn't too fond of it.

Aww brother. Play the real BG games on the PC. Download the free demo.

ITS BOTH THE PHYSICALITY AND CONTROLS THAT MAKE IT DIFFERENT, FUCK.

In ninja gaiden there are challenges that test movement skills, such as running along walls and other acrobatic feats, therefore the movements are not controlled by mouse-clicks and restricted to walking only. The same is with the combat, you are not restricted to an isometric-view and the combat requires different method of aiming your attacks than in Diablo. Ninja gaiden, however doesn't have any classes or the abundance of items/spells/abilities that Diablo has, as its not an RPG. Which means that the developers (team ninja) had different goals in mind when making the game, compared to Blizzard.

Now these two key differences (how player agency affects the character and the developers focus) are enough of a difference that comparing these two games is utterly fucking ridiculous. Can't believe i even have to explain something as simple as this to you.

In Ninja Gaiden you run on walls with a button in Diablo you knock walls with a button. Diablo doesnt have a Ninja class with agility. Put a Ninja class in Diablo and have them run on walls with a mouse button instead of a controller button and walaa same game. Also Gaiden has a lot of spells and items too.

http://ninjagaiden.wikia.com/wiki/Ryu_Hayabusa's_abilities,_equipment_and_titles

Not half as much as Diablo but still a lot. The only area I really agree with you is class. Ninja Gaiden has one and Diablo had 3 and now I think 6. That might change with the Ninja Gaiden co-op. They could make different kinds of Ninjas.

I have a feeling that he would probably not even enjoy Neverwinter Nights because it simply uses a version of the D&D rules that weren't made back in the 70's.

If you read my post you would see I prefer 3.5. NWN 2 was one of my fave games.

I can think of a few good D&D games off the top of my head, Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, if you haven't played those then I recommend them otherwise I don't think there's anything to say. Things like Heavy Rain or Indigo Prophecy might suit you but you're really shutting yourself into a very small niche.

Played them and loved them.

 

[Hyper-space]

In Ninja Gaiden you run on walls with a button in Diablo you knock walls with a button. Diablo doesnt have a Ninja class with agility. Put a Ninja class in Diablo and have them run on walls with a mouse button instead of a controller button and walaa same game. Also Gaiden has a lot of spells and items too.

"Just add a radically different control scheme and change in how player agency affects movement/combat and you have the same game!"

Player agency (the capacity of an agent, in this case the player, to interact with the game-world) in the two games are different. In Ninja Gaiden, your movements and combat is reactionary, in that you move the character to perform actions, contrasted with Diablo where you command the character. This is a fundamental difference in these games, which means that you can't compare them.

So get it through your thick-skull, YOU CANNOT COMPARE AN ACTION-ADVENTURE TITLE TO AN DUNGEON-CRAWLER. IT DOES NOT MAKE AN IOTA OF SENSE.

 

[Chibz]

Sure Daggerfall is a terrible game, but at least it's free now.

 

[Kaanyr Vhok]

"Just add a radically different control scheme and change in how player agency affects movement/combat and you have the same game!"

Player agency (the capacity of an agent, in this case the player, to interact with the game-world) in the two games are different. In Ninja Gaiden, your movements and combat is reactionary, in that you move the character to perform actions, contrasted with Diablo where you command the character. This is a fundamental difference in these games, which means that you can't compare them.

So get it through your thick-skull, YOU CANNOT COMPARE AN ACTION-ADVENTURE TITLE TO AN DUNGEON-CRAWLER. IT DOES NOT MAKE AN IOTA OF SENSE.

Yes you can and I did. Caps dont make a difference.

And what the hell is a dungeon-crawler? That isn't a mechanic that is just a location. The PS 1 version of Diablo had direct analog movement just like Ninja Gaiden. Its not a major difference at all. It still felt like Diablo on te PC. Let me explain something to you. I dont let common knowledge shape my opinion. I dont bow to tradition if it doesnt make sense. I'm a liberal. You cant just tell me a game is an RPG because it has stats and stores, you cant tell me an action adventure game is of a different genre because you spend 80% of your time underground, and you cant tell me that Diablo's melee fighting is anything but an inferior approach to the same destination which is kicking the ass of waves of enemies.

 

[Wuffykins]

snip

Well, I'm guessing someone at the Codex is bored today.

And now for actual post content: You're really funny, yeah you are. "Diablo was a console game" gave me more than a giggle, as did the ensuing comparison to Ninja Gaiden. Really is amusing watching you compare a game that is pure twitch and based off of player skill to a mouse-click fest that "supersedes player skill" with it's stat based system and a (*gasp!*) To Hit % and say they're practically the same game.

Oh, wait. You were talking about the console port released 2 years later. How silly of me to forget that. Do me a favour and scratch 'mouse-click fest' with 'press-X fest' as I really can't be bothered to go back up there and change it. Broken backspace key and all.

 

[Saelune]

Actually the last d&d rpg to grace the consoles was Warriors of the Eternal Sun for the Sega Genesis. After this one is when i should of gotten into pc gaming. Little did i know that the consoles i owned would be swamped with damn jrpgs after that.

By bussinrounds [http://profile.imageshack.us/user/bussinrounds] at 2011-05-28

Wrong. There was a DnD game for the Xbox that is...well, its Daggerdale, but 3rd edition really.

 

[Wuffykins]

Wrong. There was a DnD game for the Xbox that is...well, its Daggerdale, but 3rd edition really.

I think they're talking about the last 'proper' RPG released on consoles under the D&D license, as apparently Dark Alliance & D&D Heroes don't count due to their more 'Action-y' status.

 

[Saelune]

Wrong. There was a DnD game for the Xbox that is...well, its Daggerdale, but 3rd edition really.

I think they're talking about the last 'proper' RPG released on consoles under the D&D license, as apparently Dark Alliance & D&D Heroes don't count due to their more 'Action-y' status.

They are proper DnD games. If you wanted to run a DnD campaign where you do not RP anything and just run though dungeons, collecting loot, and killing monsters, it doesnt make it not DnD.

Neverwinter Nights, an amazing DnD game for PC, had online servers. Some were great open world RP ones, and some servers were just like Daggerdale.

 

[Wuffykins]

They are proper DnD games. If you wanted to run a DnD campaign where you do not RP anything and just run though dungeons, collecting loot, and killing monsters, it doesnt make it not DnD.

Neverwinter Nights, an amazing DnD game for PC, had online servers. Some were great open world RP ones, and some servers were just like Daggerdale.

Honestly I do agree with you, as I do find them an enjoyable diversion when I'm not in story-heavy mode, especially the 4 player co-op on the Xbox. The reason for quotes around proper and action-y was the reflect the OP's statement that Dark Alliance didn't count as an RPG (figure the same applied to D&D Heroes) due to their heavy combat focused nature, which is a sentiment I'm guessing bussinrounds shared when he posted the info of the Genesis release.

 

[RootBrewski]

But... I liked playing Dark Alliance I and II...
Ofcourse, I wasn't going into it with the same mind as you guys where either, seeing as I barely knew what DnD was, let alone anything about it.

Did you play the real Baldur's Gate games?

I'm sorry but that just strikes of pretentiousness, The Dark Alliance series is a real Baldur's Gate game, since it has the Baldur's Gate in the title. The two genre's are very different without one have any objective way of proving it's better than the other. And before you ask me the same question yes, I've played BG I and II, Icewind Dale I and II, NVWN and NVWM 2. I've enjoyed them all and Dark Alliance and currently satisfied with DD.

snip.

Gigatost speaks nonsense. I'm a big Forgotten Realms fan. I think I have a right to be pissed when Atari takes my favorite setting and turns it into rushed Torchlight coattail ridding flop that plays like a Pixar cash-in and currently has a metric score in the 40s. http://www.gamerankings.com/xbox360/617222-dungeons-and-dragons-daggerdale/index.html

You know how bad a game has to be to get a metric score in the 40s? lol So he jumps to the conclusion that I am part of the "retro PC master race" (WTF is that). That is beyond good and ignorant. I'll call it like it is. If I was some snobby PC gamer do you think I would be crediting console exclusives like Shenmue, Beyond Good and Evil, and Way of the Samurai as examples of quality action RPGs while bashing Diablo? Thats why I didnt even bother responding to Gigatoast. He didnt read my post. Its one thing to butt heads with DA:O fans. At least that game has some redeeming value. Daggersmack has a metric rating in the 40s. Who defends a game with a metric rating in the 40s?

To be honest you don't have a right to be pissed, Atari doesn't owe you anything. And I'll defend a game with a metacritic score in the 40's. They have no problem giving it a such low rating because it's a small studio in Toronto and this is their first game. They're not IO Interactive. And I don't believe it deserves an amazing score, but its average and for 1200 points, I'm satisfied.

EDIT: Meant to add the way you're coming across makes it seem that just because there's Lord of the Rings, then we should hate all over Conan The Barbarian.