ME3: One hell of a retcon...

[mireko]

Two things:

1. Have they actually announced you can romance Kaidan? As far as I'm aware all they've said is that there are same-sex LI's for both male and female Shepard, and that they aren't necessarily the returning team mates.

2. Kaidan was straight? I couldn't tell through all the bland he was giving off.

This again? Really?

Christ, people sure do start acting funny when sexuality enters the picture.

Well, it's a really sensitive topic, unfortunately, and... let's face it, this is going to be a weird retcon; not because Kaidan is suddenly gay, oh no. Because Kaidan, Garrus, Thane, and any other previously romanceable male character will all suddenly be gay and bend over in the space of a wink. That's the thing that really bugs me about Bioware's approach with this sort of thing; none of the characters have any sexual preference to speak of. It's already really improbable that you'd end up making anybody of the opposite sex in your workplace feel attracted to you, much less everybody of both sexes.

Except they haven't said that is happening. Unless you have a source, don't just make stuff up.

Some game sites saying "previously straight chars now available for both m&f chars" not necessarily true. Will have some new LI's in #ME3

link

 

[Zhukov]

Int the context of the 'world' of ME3 gay men do not exist in any way, shape, or form. At all...they just do not exist. So how are they going to re-gear to story so that (supposidly) it's always been there.

Thats what I'm trying to say.

They originally planned to make Kaiden and Ashley bisexual in ME1. Same goes for Tali and Jack in ME2.

Hell, they even recorded dialogue for it. Some of the audio files are on the disc.

I'm not entirely sure why they cut it. There may have been an issue with time or resources. Perhaps they didn't think there was enough demand to bother. And of course they were would have been worried about controversy and sales. Judging by some of the reactions to DA2 ("Oh dear God! Anders hit on me, the horror!"), they may have been right to worry.

 

[Canadish]

It'll be interesting. They've lost their magic touch lately, so I'm not actually as confident as I would have been a year ago about whether they could integrate it tastefully.

I don't want another situation like with Anders. Forced you to either romance him or go all homophobic on his ass. How about a polite "No thanks, not my thing" Bioware?
Hell, Zevren was less offensive then that. But I suppose that's the dialogue wheel's problem, not Anders eh? *cough cough*

The problem I had with Anders was that he was the only competent healer in the game. I hated the character intensely in Awakenings, and I hated him even more in DA2.

I wonder whether a lot of flak Bioware got over that character was not merely because he was annoying and also a bit strong with his come-ons (and not really for the latter, but hey), but that he was necessary for any properly balanced party (well again not really, but it's damn hard without him).

Well I guess you should have done what Bioware wanted and played a mage eh!
Then you could have healed yourself!
Darn players and they're desire for "choice"!
Mr. Gaider (the lead writer) obviously had a very specific story in his head.
Hawke was supposed to be a mage.
Anders was the intended love interest.
And of course, he does what he does at the end of the game, regardless if you ignore his quest.

But this is off topic.

I do worry about Mass Effect 3 in the same regard though. Is there going to be another "true" path?

 

[Cavan]

You have no idea how disappointed I am in this thread and in people who insist on keeping the mass effect romance cliché burning.

Making the reapers secretly controlled by the muppets is a huge retcon, replacing everybodies arms and legs with lightsabers in a huge retcon, saying that Shep is actually a dog and that the first two dreams were some kind of drug and reaper induced hallucination from within the twisted mind of Saren while he went down the shops in a sleepy little village south of Yorkshire is a huge retcon.
Changing the sexuality of a character who doesn't openly denounce being homosexual just because Bioware didn't feel like it fit into their grand scheme of things at the time is not a huge retcon :/

 

[Alucard788]

Oh dear...I really do regret posting this now. I never meant it to go this way. I don't really know how I could have worded this any differently...to really bring home what I was trying to say.

I wanted a nice debate over story lines and how perhaps this could come about....but I guess it's just not going to happen.

I do not want to say this...but I have to...did some of you actually read what I wrote? or did you just skim the title?

This is just...worrying in a way I can't describe.

((Apologies to anyone that understood my post...really. I had no idea this would turn out to be so vile. ))

 

[Cavan]

Oh dear...I really do regret posting this now. I never meant it to go this way. I don't really know how I could have worded this any differently...to really bring home what I was trying to say.

I wanted a nice debate over story lines and how perhaps this could come about....but I guess it's just not going to happen.

I do not want to say this...but I have to...did some of you actually read what I wrote? or did you just skim the title?

This is just...worrying in a way I can't describe.

Funnily enough people generally do read the original post but miss that special something something that the OP has in his head when he sees the subject, after sitting and re-reading it a half dozen times. Trying to understand some secret epiphany that detracts from what I was trying to point out about this not generally being a big deal. It doesn't require an altered storyline or anything because it is never forbidden or denounced or as far as I know even mentioned in game, that's like saying that because there's nobody with only one hand we need to change the story to draw attention to the fact that everybody who lost a limb in combat is immediately killed mercifully.

I'm not trying to be offensive, however..everybody else on the forum has seen mass effect sexuality threads on the forums hundreds of times now and I don't really see this adding very much because there really is nothing to debate in my eyes.

 

[Zhukov]

I wanted a nice debate over story lines and how perhaps this could come about....but I guess it's just not going to happen.

"Nice debate"? On the internet? Ha!

In all seriousness, some nastiness is guaranteed when discussing Bioware games. They're in a bit of an awkward spot right now. They're changing as a developer, and change always bothers people. Adding sex to the mix is like pouring petrol on a hot coal. And homosexuality on top of that... yeah, you get the idea.

 

[Alucard788]

Ohh ok...I'm sorry then. I had no idea this had been debated to death. I did a search and only found a few news articles and such. I'm sorry if I brought up something that was tiered and old to you guys.

I was just musing personally, about the matter, and wanted to share it with you guys.

I'm sorry i wont do it again....I've learned...I guess.

 

[mireko]

I do worry about Mass Effect 3 in the same regard though. Is there going to be another "true" path?

Like the first two games? Yes, probably.

This isn't Shin Megami Tensei, you're going to end up defeating the reapers no matter how things play out.

Besides, BioWare hasn't been focusing on choice-driven RPGs this generation. That honor goes to

Spoiler

From Software. Yeah, that's right.

Oh dear...I really do regret posting this now. I never meant it to go this way. I don't really know how I could have worded this any differently...to really bring home what I was trying to say.

I wanted a nice debate over story lines and how perhaps this could come about....but I guess it's just not going to happen.

I do not want to say this...but I have to...did some of you actually read what I wrote? or did you just skim the title?

This is just...worrying in a way I can't describe.

I just don't think there was a problem to start with. Even if you can romance Kaidan (and I've seen no evidence of that), was his sexuality ever expressly made clear in the first game?

It is weird how we never ran into any gay people in previous Mass Effect games (save for monogendered aliens), but that can be attributed to a lot of things.

Most noticeably:

a) A small percentage of the population is gay (granted, we don't get to know the statistics for homosexuality among alien races), and people don't exactly wear their sexuality on their sleeves.

b) The universe is under the threat of annihilation by an ancient race of killer robots. Whether a random NPC is straight, gay, bi or something else, now is not necessarily the best time to ask.

 

[LiberalSquirrel]

Yeah, people coming out of the closet are basically retconning the hell out of their lives. I really need to tell them I can't stand for this!

The whole ME sexuality discussion is by far one of the silliest gaming topics presently. Why the hell does everyone care so much? As long as they don't fuck up existing characters (or make every single gay character the flamingly flamboyant type) they could add the village people as team mates for all I care.

...Now I really want the Village People as teammates. Thanks for ruining ME3 when I inevitably can't have a cowboy and a biker guy backing me up while singing catchy disco songs. Jeez.

OT: I think that the OP's idea of 'male homosexuality is outlawed' would actually be quite interesting. It'd add a new dynamic to why none of the guys came out during ME1 and 2, and actually be rather interesting. Add a bit of world-building and an interesting little character arc for someone who decided to screw the rules and get in a relationship with a male Shep.

 

[Alucard788]

OT: I think that the OP's idea of 'male homosexuality is outlawed' would actually be quite interesting. It'd add a new dynamic to why none of the guys came out during ME1 and 2, and actually be rather interesting. Add a bit of world-building and an interesting little character arc for someone who decided to screw the rules and get in a relationship with a male Shep.

Thank you. Yes it did come to mind as I thought about how this would all go down. Perhaps if Kaidain (or whoever they make Bi (or gay) showed an interest in Shep early on he would have been arrested, and thrown off the Normandy.

Only at the end of the world when all hope is lost 'you' as male Shep, and him find the true love that they had been missing all this time...that they had to hide due to society pressures and laws.

Yea it's corny as heck but it would work. ^_^

 

[Laser Priest]

They're kind of showing off the "You can do it now", not the "you couldn't before".

They're going to enable it now and ignore that it wasn't there before.

 

[Lullabye]

How do you know they weren't gay?
Maybe its just they were not flaymboyant or stereotypical. For all you know, ALL your crew could have had a crush on you.

 

[Sunrider]

I think they're just gonna shove it in and ignore that little plot hole.

No offense, but while I adore Bioware games, character development is their weakest forte. Not once do I ever care about the actual characters. Unfortunately.

Really?

I'm the exact opposite here. I love their games as well, and for me, the characters are often the best part.
Pretty cool when you think about it.

 

[LiquidGrape]

Just because a man doesn't explicitly say he's into other men doesn't mean he can't be into other men.

There. Problem solved. Shep can be as straight, gay or bi as he likes, and it's not a retcon by any reasonable estimation.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I don't know how they will do this, but as people have mentioned, not everyone knows they are gay right off the bat.

Spoiler

I think a fair compromise would be in the options a gay "On-off" switch under the subtitles options. Before you call me a homophobe, let me explain.

Some people liked the characters as "just mah bro". The fact that romance would enter the picture between the two of them could be alkward for some people. Besides, for those who want it, it is still there. For those who don't, they get what they want as well. Everyone wins!

And for gay players or those who want to play a gay character, there should be a "Heterosexuality on-off" swtich as well. Or for those who want to play the game without worring about sex, they could just turn both off. Or people who want to play Shepard as Bi could have both of them on. Again, people get the game they want

That's just my take on the issue, which I think is a fair compromise

Again, let me state that I am not a bigot. I just want people to be able to play the game the way the want to play it.

 

[Alucard788]

How do you know they weren't gay?
Maybe its just they were not flaymboyant or stereotypical. For all you know, ALL your crew could have had a crush on you.

*sigh* No they don't have to be flaymboyant or stereotypical.Thats not what I'm getting at.

However when you walk around the Citadel you don't see any men holding hands or talking close.You never meet an NPC that has a 'partner' or such that they my mention in passing....but you do see plenty of Asari snuggles...and yes they are 'aliens' but they also look like blue women...but no male/male snuggles.

What I'm trying to say here is that there is no starting point for this in the story. I'm not angry that Bio is doing this...I'm glad....but I'm confused because a fellow like myself just doesn't exist in the entire Mass Effect Universe.

As others have said I do have a bad feeling it's just going to get shoe horned in and treated as if it was always there....which is stupid. >_<

 

[Alchemist08]

I'm sort of confused by this. Nowhere in the news i have seen so far has it been hinted that kaiden is chasing the dudes now. From what i understood, the new character James Vega was going to be the male/male love interest for ME3. I highly doubt Bioware would change up any of the characters in the series at this point. Move them forward in character development sure, but majorly revamp? Doubtful.

 

[Sejs Cube]

So how in in the Maker are they going to pull this off? Is it just going to be "Oh hey gay men exist now!" or just...I dunno.

Ooooor they've existed the whole time and it just hasn't come up in the story until now.

Then I had another thought...why don't thy make it illegal. The love of two women is legal but the love between two men is not and is considered extremely taboo. A kind of sad commentary on how some things never change...even in the future.

That would be a big mistake, as it would single out and serve to alienate the gay male gamer population. Why would Bioware want to do that? Oh, hey, everybody else - man/woman, woman/woman, human/alien, all that's cool but man/man YOU ARE CRIMINALS. Sends an extremely bad message. That's the thing about making your own universe, if you want to make a sad commentary about something you get to pick how it manifests.

There's no need to twist an already emplaced knife. It would be unkind.

Why do you guys think? How should they handle this?

The best way to handle it would be by putting the gay option in, but making as little a deal of it as possible. It doesn't need to be featured with fanfare, there doesn't need to be a quest you need to do in order to unlock being gay, there doesn't need to be some big to-do about ONLY NOW can you be gay because only in the face of the Reaper threat are space-gays finally able to gain acceptance. None of that.

In this situation the less emphasis the better. In the space future being gay isn't a big deal, so people don't need to make a big fuss over it. It's just another way of being. Let gays be treated the same as everybody else.

You know. Like they want to be.