Mega Man Creator Shakes Fist At Japanese Game Industry

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xPixelatedx

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TheKasp said:
xPixelatedx said:
Final fantasy is now a pretty corridor with battles and cinema. That's western game design, that's Call of Duty. And no, not quite every western game is Call of Duty, but when japanese developers talk about 'not selling as well as western games' they are looking at the greatest seller of all and they are wondering why their games aren't selling like this game.
That's half of all jRPGs and FF X for you. They were always just big, pretty corridors with battles and cinematics.
I am pretty sure with as bad as FFX was (and I agree it was bad) there was at least some room to move around. But you are right, it was no Chrono Trigger or FF7. Those type of spacious games with areas of exploration are rare now, as they are too complicated to reach the biggest audience possible.
 

AbstractStream

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I hate to admit it to myself, but I DO feel myself gravitating towards Western games as of late. Wouldn't say I'm "turning my back" on them though.
Still, Atlus will always be good in my eyes :D
 

Casual Shinji

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
Stealth games? Oh my, didn't we get this little game a few years ago called Metal Gear Solid 4? Funny how a supposedly stagnating industry managed to create arguably the best stealth game this generation.
Did you just call MGS4 the best stealth game this generation?

That... is... hysterical.

Whatever semblance of stealth the series might've had got tossed in the garbage in MGS4. Add to that that even with it's updated controls they still felt stogie as shit, and I would say MGS4 is a prime example of Japan's stagnated gaming industry.
 

I-Protest-I

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
I-Protest-I said:
It gladdens my heart to know Japanese games are going down the toilet, they allowed their own games to stagnate.
And quotes like this are why I hope Western gaming follows it down the pan.

Seriously, a stupid amount of the comments on this thread are barely disguised xenophobia. It's really quite disgusting. Japanese games have stagnated no more or less than Western games. You can look at any genre out there now, and the Japanese gaming industry is doing just as much interesting stuff as Western developers.

Third person shooters? While Western developers are all busy aping Gears Of War, Japan gave us Vanquish, without a doubt one of the most inventive TPS games to come out this generation.

Hack and Slash games? Oh please. Japan has owned this genre since forever. Us Westerners got one good stab in there with God Of War, but when they can respond with the likes of Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, Onimusha and Ninja Gaiden, there's no way you can contest the point. We may have cornered FPS games in the West, but Japan still continues to dominate the H&S genre.

Stealth games? Oh my, didn't we get this little game a few years ago called Metal Gear Solid 4? Funny how a supposedly stagnating industry managed to create arguably the best stealth game this generation.

In terms of racing games, Gran Turismo is still one of the leaders of the genre, arguably sharing pole position with FORZA.

In fact, if you look pretty much anywhere away from first-person shooters, you see that Japanese developers are doing just as much to move the medium forward as Western developers. Arguably more when you look at the utterly banal way developers are now simply copying each other wholesale.

And let's address that elephant in the room, the oft maligned JRPG. The fact is that if you can be bothered to acknowledge that there are JRPGS outside of Final Fantasy, Japanese developers are creating some of the absolute best RPGs of this generation. Xenoblade. Dark Souls. The Last Story. All absolutely fantastic games, and about as far as you can get from linear FF-type fare.

It seems to me like there are simply a load of butthurt fanboys who got burned over FFXIII, and are now using outmoded stereotypes to try and legitimise their own prejudices. I find it hilarious and oh so ironic that people try and claim xenophobia on Japan's part as an excuse for their own xenophobia. Sure, because Japan hates the rest of the world so much that it has become one of the commercial trade centres of the world, with Japanese companies now exporting goods all over the world and leading the field in automobiles, consumer electronics, musical instruments... wait!

The Japanese industry is just like any other. There is crap, there is good stuff, and there is amazing stuff. Just because they follow Sturgeon's Law like everyone else, that doesn't somehow make it alright to treat them like a gaming pariah.
If it makes you feel better western games ARE heading into troubled water too, I'm quite excited to see what happens within the next few years. Japan will be forced into taking risks and risks are where true gems shine through. Same for when it happens to the west, it's beginning to stagnate in the AAA industry already.

My post was a little lacking in depth and for that I apologise.
 

Towels

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Casual Shinji said:
Did you just call MGS4 the best stealth game this generation?

That... is... hysterical.
MSG4 sold how much? Lowest report I can find is 4M copies, still making it the highest selling game in PS3 history.
 

Casual Shinji

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Towels said:
Casual Shinji said:
Did you just call MGS4 the best stealth game this generation?

That... is... hysterical.
MSG4 sold how much? Lowest report I can find is 4M copies, still making it the highest selling game in PS3 history.
And that makes it the best stealth game, how exactly?
 

General BrEeZy

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Isn't that because Japan's effing nuts? Katamari is evidence to support that assertion.

Japan is awesome when it gives us games like Shadow of the Colossus. (Kow Otani IS Japanese, right???)

If we do get more...more..."normal" games, not like gray-and-brown-shooters-normal, but not bloody off-the-wall-batcrap-insane type stuff.....then I'll buy more of their stuff...

but what do I know? right?
 

RaikuFA

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
I-Protest-I said:
It gladdens my heart to know Japanese games are going down the toilet, they allowed their own games to stagnate.
And quotes like this are why I hope Western gaming follows it down the pan.

Seriously, a stupid amount of the comments on this thread are barely disguised xenophobia. It's really quite disgusting. Japanese games have stagnated no more or less than Western games. You can look at any genre out there now, and the Japanese gaming industry is doing just as much interesting stuff as Western developers.

Third person shooters? While Western developers are all busy aping Gears Of War, Japan gave us Vanquish, without a doubt one of the most inventive TPS games to come out this generation.

Hack and Slash games? Oh please. Japan has owned this genre since forever. Us Westerners got one good stab in there with God Of War, but when they can respond with the likes of Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, Onimusha and Ninja Gaiden, there's no way you can contest the point. We may have cornered FPS games in the West, but Japan still continues to dominate the H&S genre.

Stealth games? Oh my, didn't we get this little game a few years ago called Metal Gear Solid 4? Funny how a supposedly stagnating industry managed to create arguably the best stealth game this generation.

In terms of racing games, Gran Turismo is still one of the leaders of the genre, arguably sharing pole position with FORZA.

In fact, if you look pretty much anywhere away from first-person shooters, you see that Japanese developers are doing just as much to move the medium forward as Western developers. Arguably more when you look at the utterly banal way developers are now simply copying each other wholesale.

And let's address that elephant in the room, the oft maligned JRPG. The fact is that if you can be bothered to acknowledge that there are JRPGS outside of Final Fantasy, Japanese developers are creating some of the absolute best RPGs of this generation. Xenoblade. Dark Souls. The Last Story. All absolutely fantastic games, and about as far as you can get from linear FF-type fare.

It seems to me like there are simply a load of butthurt fanboys who got burned over FFXIII, and are now using outmoded stereotypes to try and legitimise their own prejudices. I find it hilarious and oh so ironic that people try and claim xenophobia on Japan's part as an excuse for their own xenophobia. Sure, because Japan hates the rest of the world so much that it has become one of the commercial trade centres of the world, with Japanese companies now exporting goods all over the world and leading the field in automobiles, consumer electronics, musical instruments... wait!

The Japanese industry is just like any other. There is crap, there is good stuff, and there is amazing stuff. Just because they follow Sturgeon's Law like everyone else, that doesn't somehow make it alright to treat them like a gaming pariah.
Well said sir. You are pure awesome.
 

Casual Shinji

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
Casual Shinji said:
Towels said:
Casual Shinji said:
Did you just call MGS4 the best stealth game this generation?

That... is... hysterical.
MSG4 sold how much? Lowest report I can find is 4M copies, still making it the highest selling game in PS3 history.
And that makes it the best stealth game, how exactly?
What else would you like to offer up? Splinter Cell jumped the fucking shark with Conviction, Tenchu did even worse... what would your choice for best stealth game this generation be?
I would offer up Assassin's Creed 2 and Batman: Arkham Asylum.

Two games that make me almost forget about Snake and his overly complicated antics.
 

RaikuFA

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General BrEeZy said:
Isn't that because Japan's effing nuts? Katamari is evidence to support that assertion.

Japan is awesome when it gives us games like Shadow of the Colossus. (Kow Otani IS Japanese, right???)

If we do get more...more..."normal" games, not like gray-and-brown-shooters-normal, but not bloody off-the-wall-batcrap-insane type stuff.....then I'll buy more of their stuff...

but what do I know? right?
Xenoblade, The World Ends with You, Shin Megami Tensei, Ace Attorney theres a lot.
 

SanguineSymphony

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Most of the time the games Japan does with the West are weaker efforts than their own. I feel in a lot of ways they try to listen too much.

Dead Rising 2 for example was not nearly as robust as Dead Rising 1. And the new DMC reboot looks like complete fail.

The Gaming market has expanded tremendously since Japan's heyday. There is no doubt about that. But I would caution Japanese developers into thinking that market is one they would ever be able to crack. I think a lot of their pandering is transparent and ill advised.
 

General BrEeZy

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RaikuFA said:
General BrEeZy said:
Isn't that because Japan's effing nuts? Katamari is evidence to support that assertion.

Japan is awesome when it gives us games like Shadow of the Colossus. (Kow Otani IS Japanese, right???)

If we do get more...more..."normal" games, not like gray-and-brown-shooters-normal, but not bloody off-the-wall-batcrap-insane type stuff.....then I'll buy more of their stuff...

but what do I know? right?
Xenoblade, The World Ends with You, Shin Megami Tensei, Ace Attorney theres a lot.
I've heard a couple of those, but I trust your word that they're good stuff! I might not get to any of them for years, but thanks.
 

Towels

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
Stealth games? Oh my, didn't we get this little game a few years ago called Metal Gear Solid 4? Funny how a supposedly stagnating industry managed to create arguably the best stealth game this generation.
Casual Shinji said:
Towels said:
Casual Shinji said:
Did you just call MGS4 the best stealth game this generation?
That... is... hysterical.
MSG4 sold how much? Lowest report I can find is 4M copies, still making it the highest selling game in PS3 history.
And that makes it the best stealth game, how exactly?
The original author you quoted was pointing out only the most recent example of a critically acclaimed stealth game to assert that Japan is still quite good at making innovative games.

And I argue that MGS4 is one of the best stealth game by consensus of having one of the highest record sales for the entire Action genre, let alone the stealth sub-genre. Although I was wrong about MOST GROSSING GAME FOR PS3, It is still damn near close. But that's trivial compared to the fact that it is also one of the highest grossing ACTION games for ALL consoles, not just PS3, or even the Stealth sub-genre. In fact the ONLY other stealth games that have surpassed it in sales are OTHER MGS games.

I'm not saying it is THE BEST stealth game. I'm saying its popularity cannot be ignored.
 

Jumendez-sama

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hazabaza1 said:
So long as we can keep Atlus...
Yeah, about that...
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/641695-persona-4-the-golden/62533117
Hopefully Persona 4: The Golden can be released by then, it could probably give them a bit of a boost even if P3P only sold about half as well globally as Persona 4.
 

hazabaza1

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Jumendez-sama said:
hazabaza1 said:
So long as we can keep Atlus...
Yeah, about that...
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/641695-persona-4-the-golden/62533117
Hopefully Persona 4: The Golden can be released by then, it could probably give them a bit of a boost even if P3P only sold about half as well globally as Persona 4.
WHAT
NO
PERSONA 5
NO
WHAT IS EVEN GOING ON MY WORLD HAS BEEN FUCKED UPSIDE DOWN
WHAT
 

Jumendez-sama

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hazabaza1 said:
Jumendez-sama said:
hazabaza1 said:
So long as we can keep Atlus...
Yeah, about that...
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/641695-persona-4-the-golden/62533117
Hopefully Persona 4: The Golden can be released by then, it could probably give them a bit of a boost even if P3P only sold about half as well globally as Persona 4.
WHAT
NO
PERSONA 5
NO
WHAT IS EVEN GOING ON MY WORLD HAS BEEN FUCKED UPSIDE DOWN
WHAT
I'm hoping that if Index does go down, Atlus (who sound like they're doing really well based on what the original poster of that thread said) can pick themselves up and buy the copyright and get back to work, with the only problem being a delay if anything. However, I'd like to hear from the OP himself since he seems to know a lot more about gaming finance than I do (which I know squat about).

EDIT: Atlus could be scooped by another parent company and resume all projects if they were cancelled by Index before Index goes down, so we could still have p4g and Persona 5 even if Index goes down.

This doesn't change, however, that even a critically acclaimed series in places outside Japan is still facing some form of trouble. If a strong series like Persona could be in trouble, then what can we say about the series in Japan that aren't as well received globally?
 

OldNewNewOld

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Funny how people say that Japanese game designers don't take risk, jet hate Nintendo for not being Sony and MS.
 

Atmos Duality

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
What else would you like to offer up? Splinter Cell jumped the fucking shark with Conviction, Tenchu did even worse... what would your choice for best stealth game this generation be?
Deus Ex: Human Revolution? I dunno. There aren't many good stealth games out there.