Mentally Ill Teenage Girl Dies From Suffocation During Exorcism

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keinechance

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Mar 12, 2010
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HandsomeJack said:
Catholic exorcists, for example, have to recieve training in psychology and psychiatry in order to address the likelyhood that any given "possessed" person is simply mentally ill. The vast majority of exorcism requests to Catholic exorcists end up being turned over to mental health experts. To paint with a broad brush that anyone who 1) manages to learn 7 languages 2) must achieve a masters in theology and 3) at least a masters (if not doctorate) in psychology, must clearly be an idiot simply for being religious...? Cant we simply say "I dissagree with the conclusion you've come to" without being so flippant and rude about it?
I don't think that is possible,because although I know that you think all of this is real, it is not.

And any psychiatrist will tell you that you should never encourage delusions, no matter how pleasent they may seem for the afflicted.
 

evilneko

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Jun 16, 2011
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Kumamoto Prefectural Police said the teenager died of suffocation and that she had undergone the ritual a hundred times before.

Mr Maishigi reportedly claimed that his daughter was possessed and found the monk to perform the ritual to exorcise the demons so she could get better. But she resisted and became violent.
Not so sure she was "mentally ill" as this sounds like a perfectly reasonable reaction to such abuse!
 

Agayek

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Oct 23, 2008
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Cowabungaa said:
I actually thought Buddhism was more a more sensible religion, overall, than that. Apparently I was wrong.
If you actually look at Buddhist beliefs, some of them are patently ridiculous.

For the most part, the core principles of the religion are much more sensible than most Western religions, seeing as it's all about a focus on the self, but some of the fluff they dress those principles in are even more nonsensical than the Cosmic Jewish Zombie.
 

Agayek

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Oct 23, 2008
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Luykus said:
Yes, please, cue the flood of arrogant, self-righteous dribble bashing religion.

Am I religious, somewhat. Even if I was not, the obnoxious prattle that many people spew forth would sicken me. I grow weary of the constant assault that religion endures, it is being judged by many people not even remotely qualified to do so.
To be fair, everyone with a functional brain has the qualifications to judge whatever they like. You may not like their judgment, but that doesn't mean they're not able to make it. I'd agree that religion is used a scapegoat for various things more often than it should be, but sometimes it really is at fault, and should be held accountable, just like everything else in life.

I'm not really sure there can be enough scorn heaped on religion. The very premise of organized religion is that one should abandon logic, reason and proof in favor of some flowery language that makes one feel better about their own insignificance. It was a necessary and useful tool to keep people in line and to help keep them safe, but we've long since reached the point where it's become an active impediment.

Believing in some higher power is all well and good, but the rules that are imposed by the organizations that promote such belief has, and will continue to, hold back humanity from making some truly meaningful strides in the realm of social or technological progress. Slavish adherence to tradition, the refusal to question and the sheer weight of societal pressure it carries are all hallmarks of any religion (though the last will vary by culture), and all of them have done great damage to human evolution.

I'll close with an image I find fairly well encapsulates my point:

 

Killertje

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Dec 12, 2010
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SmegInThePants said:
I think it does make sense to examine the religion itself. We know in this story that this was a Monk who was acting off-script, according to the story, so we don't have to worry about buddhists in general following this practice. So that's a relief. But what if his entire temple is off-script and shares his belief and other monks from this temple are out there doing this same thing to other young girls. It makes sense to be concerned about the beliefs themselves when those beliefs are the basis of actions that kill little girls.

The monk in question was trying to help the girl. He was wrong to think he could, but he wasn't trying to kill the girl. According to his beliefs he was helping her. His beliefs were the basis for his actions which were the cause of the girl's death. So it makes sense to put some of the blame on the belief and to be worried there might be others out there who share it so that they can be educated as to the danger involved. Its not just that the monk was stupid. The monk held a dangerous belief that he acted upon resulting in an avoidable death.

The reason you don't see this a lot w/atheists (all atheists being blamed when a lone crazy atheist does something stupid) is that atheism is a lack of a belief. All christians, as an example, have in common that they believe in jesus, his divinity, god, the bible, etc... Their belief is what is common to them. Their rituals, their sacraments, often their charity, and some times their less savory actions are often conducted in name of these beliefs. Many of their actions in their lives stem from their beliefs. So we give them a name, christians, categorizing them by their common belief.

But atheists are a group who only have in common 1 thing that they disbelieve. We don't categorize them by what they believe, like we do w/every religion out there, but rather by 1 of the many things they disbelieve. How many of you do not believe in Shiva? How many of you non-Shiva-ists tailor your actions based on this disbelief? How often have you performed a ritual or given charity in the name of your disbelief in Shiva? A non-shiva-ist might give a can of soup to a homeless man, but its likely to be for a reason other than his lack of belief in shiva.

Anyhow, i can see why religious people might feel like their religion is being unfairly painted w/a broad brush due to a lone crazy person who happens to belong to the religion. But when the behavior in question was based upon a religious belief, it makes sense to investigate, to find out how many others share this belief and might also act upon it w/similar results, so as to avoid such an outcome being repeated. This first incident would have been hard for anyone to predict or prevent. But if it were to happen again because we were scared of angering people by questioning their religions beliefs, then the fault would be borne by all of us.

I think it was saint Augustine who said something to the effect that: (paraphrasing because its been over a decade since i read it) -> The christian who stands on the corner preaching that which every learned person knows to be wrong hurts the entire religion by preventing those who would otherwise join the religion from doing so for they will believe the entire religion to be made up of fools. The church should therefore accept new ideas (such as scientific discoveries) or risk alienating the very people the church needs.
You deserve an unsnipped/unspoilered quote!

I still think only idiots would consider blaming a religion for something an idiot does, but then again, there are a lot of idiots on this planet.
 

The_Emperor

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Mar 18, 2010
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Sneaky-Pie said:
1. Slams against religion.
2. Rebuttals for religion.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2.
4. Continuously repeat step 3.
5. Realize no one is going to change their opinion.
6. Remove yourself from the situation and thread.

Good talk, everyone.
this^
 

FernandoV

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Dec 12, 2010
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Project_Omega said:
Exorcism is real, but it can be hard from distincting a demonic possession from mental illness sometimes. We are only human after all.
Almost had me there.
 

Twilight_guy

Sight, Sound, and Mind
Nov 24, 2008
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Sounds like A. they were preforming the ceremony wrong and B. they weren't supposed to bind her limbs. In other words, they acted like idiots and killed someone as a result. As much as I love to hear stories about stupid people winding up ruining other people's life, this is still depressing. Even more so since now its going to be linked to exorcism and religion and thus all the flaming militant atheists who have nothing better to do will blame religion for two guy's stupidity. I wish there were less stupid people so these stories wouldn't exist.
 

McMullen

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Mar 9, 2010
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Luykus said:
Yes, please, cue the flood of arrogant, self-righteous dribble bashing religion.

Am I religious, somewhat. Even if I was not, the obnoxious prattle that many people spew forth would sicken me. I grow weary of the constant assault that religion endures, it is being judged by many people not even remotely qualified to do so.
Oh relax. You guys are still the majority, and admitting to atheism is still, for the most part, political suicide in the higher elected offices (at least in the US). Listening to a dominant social group act like they're being oppressed because they're becoming slightly less dominant is just nauseating.
 

Darius Brogan

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Apr 28, 2010
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Sneaky-Pie said:
1. Slams against religion.
2. Rebuttals for religion.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2.
4. Continuously repeat step 3.
5. Realize no one is going to change their opinion.
6. Remove yourself from the situation and thread.

Good talk, everyone.
^The entire thread in a nutshell, right there^

Though I'm not entirely sure step 5 is going to apply to most of the people here.
 

Sewer Rat

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Sep 14, 2008
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I just find it a little amusing that they tried to justify their action because she was becoming "violent and uncooperative." Oh my god! She is trying to fight back against people essentially drowning her! SHE MUST BE POSSESSED!
 

Gareth Eckley

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Mar 21, 2010
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Project_Omega said:
Exorcism is real, but it can be hard from distincting a demonic possession from mental illness sometimes. We are only human after all.
Apart from the fact the above sentence doesn't actually make any sense and you probably meant to say "Demonic posession is real", it was a really well thought out post.