Metroid represents everything wrong about our treatment of the enviornment.

[Internet Kraken]

Didn't moviebob also say that he was over analyzing halo and that he doesn't believe that bungie are trying to send out that message?

Well, I'm pretty sure he said that he doesn't think Bungie was sending this message intentionally. Rather, it was a byproduct of the resistance to diversity that is present in our culture. Movie Bob said the Halo was an example of this racism surfacing in our media without the creators even realizing it. However, this felt incredibly forced. Saying that Halo represents a much bigger problem with our culture seemed like a weak excuse to attach his ranting against the game to a bigger issue, thus claiming it has significance and is not fanboy drivel. Which isn't necessarily a bad idea, but the problem is that Halo is a terrible example of this "racism" since it has humans working with aliens. The fact that he overlooked this is what makes his video seem like just another fanboy rant, albeit with better vocabulary than most. But it doesn't matter how intelligent you make your argument sound if the foundation is still utterly wrong, as I tried to prove with this post.

 

[Quaidis]

Wait a second... I wasn't supposed to over-analyze your over-analysis of Metroid? I'm supposed to over-analyze my own game? Where's the fun in that?

(Read last post I wrote if you want.)

 

[Internet Kraken]

Wait a second... I wasn't supposed to over-analyze your over-analysis of Metroid? I'm supposed to over-analyze my own game? Where's the fun in that?

(Read last post I wrote if you want.)

Well, you can talk about my over-analysis and the point I was trying to make with it. That's one of the things I wanted with this thread. Though I also was hoping to see some other people over-analyze their favorite games. I had a lot of fun writing this, and figured other people might enjoy doing it as well. Could lead to some good humor.

 

[Quaidis]

Wait a second... I wasn't supposed to over-analyze your over-analysis of Metroid? I'm supposed to over-analyze my own game? Where's the fun in that?

(Read last post I wrote if you want.)

Well, you can talk about my over-analysis and the point I was trying to make with it. That's one of the things I wanted with this thread. Though I also was hoping to see some other people over-analyze their favorite games. I had a lot of fun writing this, and figured other people might enjoy doing it as well. Could lead to some good humor.

Oh man, I died of fun when I went on about Metroid being pro-anti-invasive earlier in this thread. I could have gone on for hours over it without even so much as looking at a Metroid game for facts.

I'll have to come back if I can come up with a perfect game to over-analyze.

 

[Delock]

Over-analyzation always ends up more of something completely different result, often due to the fact that you'll often arrive at some conclusion along the way, and all other things you look at will "support" this because you'll often start using Insane Troll Logic*.

While sometimes there are subtle messages specifically crafted into games (such as in Silent Hill where every enemy represented a part of the protagonist that he didn't really want to face), more often than not it's just your own thoughts rather than the developer's.

It takes me back to one of my English teachers who overanalyzed ever story we went through, on the principle that apparently writers only write because they have a central underlying message to tell rather than just a story (I cannot begin to describe how much I hated her at that moment).




* I'm sorry for this, but TvTropes time http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic

 

[AquaAscension]

The biggest problem is that cherry picking and stuff like that isn't considered over-analysis; it's called politics. Rhetoric if you will. If people are doing this to something (let's say "trivial") like video games, then of course they're going to do it with so many other mediums. For example, news stations that report on the president's speeches who also employ face readers and blah... people try to read into everything nowadays because... well, because. We've become very skeptical. There are a host of reasons for this, but I don't feel like stating them just now.

Anyhow, good show. You ought to get yourself an English degree and join my ranks as a professional bullshitter. Writing essays on works of art is pretty much all that you just did with slightly more quotes and strict adherence to MLA rules.

 

[DustyDrB]

Ha. You had me. I was reading and thinking: is this guy sincere about this?

You make a good point, though. I watched the MovieBob Halo video and was thinking something along the lines to that the whole time. I think we're going to be seeing more stuff like this from people within the gaming community for a reason.
We have this strong push to include games as an art form, something that I believe is true but is not a message I care enough to be to evangelical about. With this push we have people making games that try to be strongly thematic, among other attributes associated with great art. People who care about games being art will often expect all games to fall in line, and will be disappointed.

In TV, we have shows like The Wire and Mad Men. We also have Burn Notice and Chuck, shows that I love but don't exist to challenge viewers intellectually. They're just fun.

Same with any media...
Moves: Being There vs Tropic Thunder
Books: Atlas Shrugged vs Harry Potter

In the same way, some games are just striving to fun and don't ask you to think too deeply. This doesn't mean that one approach is necessarily better than the other, but we should be able to recognize if a game is trying to be more "high-minded" or not and judge it within it's intention. This, I believe ("I believe" because I haven't actually played a Halo game), is MovieBob's error in the video. I think we can expect to see this tension show itself more and more as the gaming medium strives to show it's value to the world.

 

[Internet Kraken]

In the same way, some games are just striving to fun and don't ask you to think too deeply. This doesn't mean that one approach is necessarily better than the other, but we should be able to recognize if a game is trying to be more "high-minded" or not and judge it within it's intention. This, I believe ("I believe" because I haven't actually played a Halo game), is MovieBob's error in the video. I think we can expect to see this tension show itself more and more as the gaming medium strives to show it's value to the world.

Yep. Just like any other form of media, not every game has some deep meaning behind it. Or even has any significant artistic value. Sometimes it really is just a game, just like a movie can just be a movie. In retrospect though, it is kind of unfair to use Metroid has an example of this since it gives the impression that I don't believe they have any significant artistic value. I would disagree with that, for I at least believe that the Metroid: Prime games show how you can still manage to tell a decent story with almost no interaction between characters, which is an impressive achievement.

While it's important that we realize that games can have value and may reflect the views of our society, it's equally important to remember that this does not always have to be the case. I think Movie Bob was just desperately trying to tie his hatred of the Halo franchise to a significant cultural issue, thus giving it more credibility than mere fanboy rage.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

Won't someone think of the childre--err, fictional enviorments!

 

[GoWithDAFro]

Brilliant post, Kraken. Dissapointingly few people seemed to get it though. I shall now attempt to do the same with Mario, which happens to support Naziism.
Mario's most iconic enemie is a goomba, a mushroom. But wait, aren't toads mushrooms, too? And isn't it called mushroom kingdom? But the goombas are not the perfect kind of mushroom, and so they must be destroyed. Turtles are not mushrooms, and so koopas must be destroyed, along with the fish and those guys in the clouds. Mario goes to these worlds and commits mass genocide on all in the area, eventually destroying the castles they live in, too. True, Mario isn't a mushroom, but Hitler himself was not an Aryan, either. The woman Mario loves so much, the one who rules the kingdom, is Aryan, though. So is the queen of the Lumas in Super Mario Galaxy.

Also consider this: Mario was a Japanese creation. He is an Italian. And what side of the war did Japan and Italy fight with? I thought so.

How'd I do?

 

[Grygor]

While it's important that we realize that games can have value and may reflect the views of our society, it's equally important to remember that this does not always have to be the case. I think Movie Bob was just desperately trying to tie his hatred of the Halo franchise to a significant cultural issue, thus giving it more credibility than mere fanboy rage.

He doesn't just hate the Halo series, he detests the entire FPS genre - to the point that, despite claiming to like Metroid games, he adamantly refuses to play the Metroid Prime games because they're "FPSes".

It made his defense of Other M almost impossible to take seriously - it felt more like someone desperately struggling to resolve cognitive dissonance than like a well-reasoned justification for its perceived flaws.

 

[archvile93]

I would say you're reading way to deeply into this if it wasn't for the fact that I read all the way through.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Before I even began, I knew this was an attack against Movie Bob.

Just based on the title...I knew it. Somehow.
Though the hilarious thing here is that I actually felt that way while playing Metroid Prime 2 (Awww...look at the harmless flyers. They're way up in the sky and aren't bothering anybody....*rapid fire Power Beam* DIE!!!).

 

[Internet Kraken]

Brilliant post, Kraken. Dissapointingly few people seemed to get it though. I shall now attempt to do the same with Mario, which happens to support Naziism.
Mario's most iconic enemie is a goomba, a mushroom. But wait, aren't toads mushrooms, too? And isn't it called mushroom kingdom? But the goombas are not the perfect kind of mushroom, and so they must be destroyed. Turtles are not mushrooms, and so koopas must be destroyed, along with the fish and those guys in the clouds. Mario goes to these worlds and commits mass genocide on all in the area, eventually destroying the castles they live in, too. True, Mario isn't a mushroom, but Hitler himself was not an Aryan, either. The woman Mario loves so much, the one who rules the kingdom, is Aryan, though. So is the queen of the Lumas in Super Mario Galaxy.

Also consider this: Mario was a Japanese creation. He is an Italian. And what side of the war did Japan and Italy fight with? I thought so.

How'd I do?

You know, I was actually considering writing this about Mario originally. Mainly because I wanted to incorporate a scene from some old educational game into it. In this obscure game, Mario randomly decides to summon a giant typewriter (yeah, it's weird) to crush the fuck out of Bowser's castle, no doubt killing everyone inside. Bowser hadn't even done anything in that game. Mario was just being an asshole. Unfortunately, I couldn't find the right scene.

The idea of Mario being a Nazi seems ridiculous, but it really isn't any dumber than suggesting that Halo is racist.

He doesn't just hate the Halo series, he detests the entire FPS genre - to the point that, despite claiming to like Metroid games, he adamantly refuses to play the Metroid Prime games because they're "FPSes".

It made his defense of Other M almost impossible to take seriously - it felt more like someone desperately struggling to resolve cognitive dissonance than like a well-reasoned justification for its perceived flaws.

Yes, Movie Bob is heavily biased against any FPS game, even though there's a world of difference between Matroid: Prime and Halo. I found it amusing that he though Metroid: Other M converting into 2D sidescrlling was somehow innovative, when that's how the series started. What was innovating was Retro taking the series that up until then had never been in 3D, let alone as an FPS. Ye the conversion was pretty much flawless. But of course he wouldn't acknowledge that.

 

[Saltyk]

This is so very true. But sometimes people don't even just do this in stories, but in everyday life. Every have someone question your motives for doing something simple?
"Why do you want to [fill in the blank]?"
"Um... Because I do..?"

On topic, I do agree. You can look for the 'secret messages' in ANYTHING. That's why I hated all English classes in high school.

Ever read Watership Down? It's literally a book about rabbits. They leave their home before it gets destroyed and form a new one. Also encounter various other rabbit warrens during the book. After reading that over the summer for the lovely summer reading (which I always despised), I returned to class. As we start discussing the book in class, my teacher told us it was an allegory for various forms of government. Say what?

Don't get me wrong. I could see it. But as the OP said, if you over-analyze something, you can make up whole subplots in a story.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

Wait, there really wasn't any justification for killing the metroids in the second game? I kind of assumed there was. Weird. Still, thinking that this has any reflection upon our treatment of other species in real life is pretty silly.

There's the explanation that Metroids are dangerous and difficult to kill parasites that the Space Pirates intend to use as biological weapons (a concept more thoroughly explored in Metroid Prime). Of course, the Federation's desire to study Metroids allows the Space Pirates to revive the species from extinction and continue their plan of using them as biological weapons.

Similarly Samus destroys the research station in Metroid Fusion while causing massive environmental damage to SR388 (Metroid and X homeworld) to prevent the Federation from attempting to use X parasites as biological weapons. She reasons that X are far too powerful and adaptive for Federation scientists to control, thus the X will escape and begin their Tyranid/Zerg/Flood-esque campaign for universal proliferation. Essentially she's causing genocide to prevent a greater genocide.

On to Metroid Prime 2: Echoes: the Ing's ability to possess beings in the "Light World" would afford them the capability of interplanetary travel should they gain control of functional starships. This coupled with their extremely hostile nature and the incredible difficulty associated with fighting them is a credible reason for their destruction.

Same thing with the destruction of the lifeform Phazon, which was finally achieved in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. Phazon leviathans had been wreaking havoc on many worlds, and the Federation saw no option besides the destruction of Phaaze to stop it.

All of these things are comparable to wiping out small-pox. In all cases really these organisms are far more threatening to civilization than any possible Earth creature that we can conceive of save for highly communicable, highly lethal illness causing vectors.

As for Samus' wanton slaughter of local wildlife in her missions? Well, they're aggressive and/or in the way. If soldiers were attacked by wild wolves while on a mission would you say that they're supporting genocide by killing the wolves? Well now imagine that they're being attacked by massive snails with spiny shells than can cut through metal, or horse-sized grasshoppers that can launch spike projectiles at dangerous velocity.

EDIT: FYI, this isn't necessarily taking your OP seriously. Rather it's further over-analyzing the series to come up with the moral justifications for all the issues that the initial over-analysis raised. Interesting thought exercise.

 

[Tuken]

The Legend of Zelda : Majora's Mask

Spoilers ahoy.

Majora's Mask is one of the many highly acclaimed Zelda titles and while some have mixed opinions of it - especially following so soon after Ocarina of Time - it is still listed as one of the best games of all times user and editor lists.

However there is a much darker side to this game that no classification board spotted while rating this game - Not even the Australian Classification Board.
Quite simply this game deals with death in a more horrifying way than Grand Theft Auto or Manhunt. Throughout this title Link frequently encounters death in such a casual matter and save for the one act of burying the dead Zora ( Barely seconds of his grave being shown ) the game is completely devoid of any remorse for death.

As Link continues his adventures in this game, he gains the forms of 3 other races in the Zelda franchise - The Deku, the Zora and the Goron. All of these forms are acquired through the death of an individual from the named races and Link quite literally takes their essence and forcibly uses this to accomplish his own selfish ( Using the soul of a Goron to win a race - seriously? ) and misconstrued endeavours all under the pretense of saving the land from the moon falling onto it.

Remember that this game was and is sold to children, it was wonderful colourful graphics with an "E for Everyone" label right beside the Nintendo Seal of Quality logo. Is this really what we should be letting our kids play?
Sure, one may argue that our young can access games like the aforementioned Grand Theft Auto and Manhunt even though their age restrictions are in the 18+ region but what of the parents who are aware of these restrictions and monitor their child's play? They are being fooled into letting their kids play games that have this level of advanced content in them at an unprepared and sensitive age.

Now I am not against letting children understand the meaning of life and death - lest our newer generations grow up without any morality! But I do believe that every parent has a right to decide how their child should grow up and how they should learn these important life lessons. What gives game developers the right to include this content without letting the rating boards fully understand the themes that are dealt with. I do wish to point out that I focused the main body of this text on the sole aspect of death in this game but many other issues arise on further examination.

Majora's Mask is commonly compared to Groundhog Day and sure there are similarities with the whole repeating the same timeline and learning what,when and where things happen but let us further examination this comparison.
In Groundhog Day the protagonist experiences a period of depression following his repeats. This gets so bad as to warrant suicide as a solution to the insanity that accompanies every loop in which you are the only one aware of it and simultaneously unable to end it. In the movie the main character comes to see the worst of the world - Most amply demonstrated in the scene allotted to the old homeless man. This can be seen to be somewhat mirrored in what happens to the Romani Ranch owners.
Quick Version : If left unattended a little girl will be kidnapped for 2 days only to return traumatised and disorientated while the life of the elder sister is thrown into disarray.
There is a happy ending however, if Link safeguards the ranch for a time - But as with every loop this is undone and must be repeated.

Groundhog Day ends on a positive note - Phil Connors solves all the problems of the locals in one loop while avoiding temptation and greed and is awarded by the ending of the loops.
For Majora's mask this is not the case - It is physically impossible to complete all the quests and tasks in one single loop of Majora's Mask making the 'Happy Ending' completely implausible. Our protagonist has taken what he wants from the world and walks away more powerful than ever before while reaping the benefits of the combined loops without actually 'doing anything' in the end.

In closing, is this really the message we should be teaching our children? Is this how we should be molding their minds? I think not.
No one but a kid's parent should decide when they are the right age to learn some of life's biggest mysteries especially under the guise of a "Kid's Game".
This title - while rightfully critically acclaimed - does not deserve to be accessible by children, it just isn't right.
This represents a bigger problem than global warming or other related issues as if our children grow up with the wrong mindset from their early years, whos the say they won't make the wrong decisions when it comes to bigger issues - Most dominately around the life and death of fellow humans given the subject at hand here.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How'd I do OP?

I did enjoy reading your metroid/environment wall of text so naturally I only felt inclined to write my own in honour of yours.

I hope it meets the standard set by the eco-terrorist Samus Aran.

 

[Jumplion]

I always like giving the benefit of the doubt to game developers with their symbolism and whatnot, I really do think that most of them are smart enough to smartly, though maybe not cleverly, insert certain keypoints and stuff within their games.

I think there needs to be certain games that aren't afraid to be delved into with themes, symbolism, analysis, interpretation, etc... and while there are plenty of games that could be differently interpreted, most of them are really only basic symbolism and themes and whatnot.

And I don't care what anyone says, Shadow of the Collosus is ripe with serious symbolism and stuff. I'd post my (and most everyone else's) interpretation, I would, if I weren't so darn lazy at the moment, I'll post it tomorrow.

 

[yanipheonu]

So you're saying if I am attacked by a giant lava monster and have an arm laser I SHOULDN'T use it to save my life?

Besides, she wipes out Metroids because they will wipe out all life if left unchecked. It amounts to regulated hunts, where you need to allow the hunting of a certain creature or else the ecosystem will be adversely affected.

But seriously, I wouldn't think about it too hard. I'm pretty sure we can desern the difference between real animals and the countless creatures you defeat in many given games.