Monkey and Bear race; Monkey wins, Bear eats Monkey

[Zhukov]

I'm with Nokturos on this one, the responses on this thread are shocking. Usually the Escapist user-base is fairly balanced and mature when horrible news stories like this come out. I don't understand how it's funny to see animals subjected to this kind of treatment... I see even less humour in those animals getting hurt/dying thanks to that human mistreatment.

How is training an animal to perform a trick cruel?

People do it with dogs all the time.

Sure, if you're using nasty training methods then that's bad, but we have no evidence of that here.

It wasn't people who hurt that monkey. It was the bear doing what bears have been doing for thousands of years.

 

[Andy Shandy]

I...have no idea what to say. The whole thing just seems so surreal.

 

[Evil Smurf]

I'm no vegan, I love eating meat but don't abuse animals. Also who the shit are you? Fucking with a bear?

 

[fletch_talon]

I'm with Nokturos on this one, the responses on this thread are shocking. Usually the Escapist user-base is fairly balanced and mature when horrible news stories like this come out. I don't understand how it's funny to see animals subjected to this kind of treatment... I see even less humour in those animals getting hurt/dying thanks to that human mistreatment.

How is training an animal to perform a trick cruel?

People do it with dogs all the time.

Sure, if you're using nasty training methods then that's bad, but we have no evidence of that here.

It wasn't people who hurt that monkey. It was the bear doing what bears have been doing for thousands of years.

Exactly.
And that's the same reason I'm sick of people getting all morally righteous about cock/dog fighting rings.
These animals want to fight and kill each other they've done it for thousands of years. Just because a few bad guys use inhumane training methods doesn't mean the sport as a whole should be demonised.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

I'm with Nokturos on this one, the responses on this thread are shocking. Usually the Escapist user-base is fairly balanced and mature when horrible news stories like this come out. I don't understand how it's funny to see animals subjected to this kind of treatment... I see even less humour in those animals getting hurt/dying thanks to that human mistreatment.

How is training an animal to perform a trick cruel?

People do it with dogs all the time.

Sure, if you're using nasty training methods then that's bad, but we have no evidence of that here.

It wasn't people who hurt that monkey. It was the bear doing what bears have been doing for thousands of years.

Exactly.
And that's the same reason I'm sick of people getting all morally righteous about cock/dog fighting rings.
These animals want to fight and kill each other they've done it for thousands of years. Just because a few bad guys use inhumane training methods doesn't mean the sport as a whole should be demonised.

The only reason the fighting WORKS is because of inhumane training methods. If you took those away the "sport" wouldn't be there because it's built on it.

I'm fine with teaching them how to ride bicycles, that the bear ate the monkey is just a fact of nature and shit happening.
However dog fighting etc, is a result of torturing the animals to make them more aggressive. Don't get on my side of the fence, I don't want you here.

 

[lacktheknack]

Call me a party pooper, but I didn't find that funny or entertaining, just depressing.

Now I'm beating myself up for entering this thread.

 

[fletch_talon]

The only reason the fighting WORKS is because of inhumane training methods. If you took those away the "sport" wouldn't be there because it's built on it.

I'm fine with teaching them how to ride bicycles, that the bear ate the monkey is just a fact of nature and shit happening.
However dog fighting etc, is a result of torturing the animals to make them more aggressive. Don't get on my side of the fence, I don't want you here.

So its not possible to train an animal to fight and attack without being inhumane?
Someone better call guard/attack/police dog training schools then cuz they've got a lot to answer for.

Dogs killing each other in a ring is just a fact of nature just like this. If you put aggressive animals in enclosed areas with other animals then shit will go down. The same stuff happens in nature all the time, at least in this case we get entertainment out of it.

 

[fletch_talon]

Those dogs are controlled you fool. They ARE trained in humane ways. They'll attack WHEN THEY'RE TOLD because they've been trained only to attack those their owners judge as bad and stop when the order is given.

No. In nature dogs can run away if they become injured or are hurt. Ina ring they're surrounded by people who treat them with hostility and cannot escape. Dogs like this are trained to attack anything that moves no matter who or what. The training usually involves things like starvation and physical torture and confinement.

Let me sum it up for you.
Attack dogs are trained without harming the animal.
Dogs in a fighting ring are trained using torture starvation and confinement.
Dogs int he ring are not allowed to escape, they are confined until one kills the other while drunken gambling buffoons bet on them, so don't you dare compare it to something like nature.

And is there a reason why if dog fighting were legal that it couldn't be done with humanely trained, human controlled dogs?
Hell, it'd make it even better entertainment since a losing dog wouldn't always end up dead, you could have Rocky/Pro Wrestling style grudge matches (multiple puns involving "underdogs" come to mind too).

You're right about the dogs inability to run away, though considering your stance on the above video, I didn't realise that was an issue. Monkeys would normally run too, generally up a tree. Even though that video takes place in a more open space than most dog fights, I certainly don't see any trees.

Lets face it. You put a bear and a monkey in an environment like that, the monkey is gonna get hurt, but like you say, that's nature. Dog fights are no different... well they are but only because their illegal nature leads to only scumbags being involved in the sport atm. Its like drugs, legalise it, monitor and control it and you end up with a lucrative and entertaining past time with no moral implications. Its the law of the jungle right?

 

[JoJo]

I don't really see the funny part in animal cruelty. If you laughed at this, you're basically a ****.

Arguably, since non-human animals aren't people there's no more reason to feel empathy towards them than say a phone or a laptop that gets accidentally broken.

OT: Hilarious, seeing a bear ride a bicycle is pretty funny too. Shame the video couldn't have zoomed in further to get a better view when the monkey was being eaten but oh well, you can't have everything.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

1st paragraph: lol wut? XD

It'd be nice to dream about but I don't see how it could possibly be done. They're not gonna fight unless they're made aggressive in some way. Anyway fun to think about.

Well no one was expecting something like that to happen. Also it's a little difficult for a monkey to run anywhere if they're int he jaws of a bears.
When wild dogs fight however, they are equals. Retreating in the middle of a fight is an option. When a bear has it's jaws around your torso though... yeah.

If it was made legal an didn't involve torture and the dogs dying then maybe... But I don't see how that could be possible.
Edit: Also as far as I know dog's don't understand puns or what Rocky is.

 

[Nickolai77]

Grim stuff, i didn't find any of this funny. When they started beating the bear with sticks it only confirmed my suspicions with regards to how those animals are raised.

 

[Lilani]

This is pretty bad, and I'm surprised PETA hasn't shit a brick yet, or anybody really. Just your daily reminder that these are wild animals, and anything can happen with them

PETA hasn't shat a brick because what they want is headlines, and they get a lot more headlines complaining about stupid things than complaining about actual examples of horrific abuse.

And that is exactly how I see this. Horrible and disgusting abuse. Even ignoring the fact that they're on bicycles, just watch the guy whack the bear with the stick at the end. If they do that on stage, just imagine what they do to the animals backstage.

 

[Lilani]

Lets face it. You put a bear and a monkey in an environment like that, the monkey is gonna get hurt, but like you say, that's nature. Dog fights are no different... well they are but only because their illegal nature leads to only scumbags being involved in the sport atm. Its like drugs, legalise it, monitor and control it and you end up with a lucrative and entertaining past time with no moral implications. Its the law of the jungle right?

In dogfighting, what exactly would be the end of a fight if you aren't waiting for one of the animals to get killed?

And did you even watch the video? Did you see the "handlers" waling on the bear with a stick at the end? That isn't the law of the jungle, that's cruel people beating a cornered animal for sport. The bear probably lashed out because it was starving anyway. Just look at how thin it is while on the bike--it wasn't any bigger than any of the people around it.

 

[fletch_talon]

1st paragraph: lol wut? XD

It'd be nice to dream about but I don't see how it could possibly be done. They're not gonna fight unless they're made aggressive in some way. Anyway fun to think about.

Well no one was expecting something like that to happen. Also it's a little difficult for a monkey to run anywhere if they're int he jaws of a bears.
When wild dogs fight however, they are equals. Retreating in the middle of a fight is an option. When a bear has it's jaws around your torso though... yeah.

If it was made legal an didn't involve torture and the dogs dying then maybe... But I don't see how that could be possible.
Edit: Also as far as I know dog's don't understand puns or what Rocky is.

Ok, I think you've caught on to the fact that I was being insincere... either that or you have a very slight touch of sociopathy... either that or I made a much more convincing argument than I expected or had intended to.

No, dog fighting is never alright, to think its okay to deliberately put an animal in harms way for our amusement is disgusting.
Now whilst I understand that the situation in the video above does differ from dog fighting, my intent was to demonstrate that the incident occurred due to human fault and that it wasn't just "nature". Humans put those animals in an "unnatural" environment and situation, because of that the monkey was killed.
I'm not saying there's anything morally wrong with training an animal like a bear to do tricks (though personally I find it distasteful) but there is something wrong with making predator and prey preform together, especially in a situation where control over the animals is severely limited.

Oh and for the record, the whole "dog fighting always involves torture" argument is right, but it could also be claimed that if not all then most instances of preforming bears (and some other animals) involve mistreatment/poaching and other such things.

 

[fletch_talon]

Lets face it. You put a bear and a monkey in an environment like that, the monkey is gonna get hurt, but like you say, that's nature. Dog fights are no different... well they are but only because their illegal nature leads to only scumbags being involved in the sport atm. Its like drugs, legalise it, monitor and control it and you end up with a lucrative and entertaining past time with no moral implications. Its the law of the jungle right?

In dogfighting, what exactly would be the end of a fight if you aren't waiting for one of the animals to get killed?

And did you even watch the video? Did you see the "handlers" waling on the bear with a stick at the end? That isn't the law of the jungle, that's cruel people beating a cornered animal for sport. The bear probably lashed out because it was starving anyway. Just look at how thin it is while on the bike--it wasn't any bigger than any of the people around it.

In a boxing/martial arts match, how do you determine the winner?

No, wait, stop, not gonna keep this up.
Check the post below yours. I was trying to represent the arguments being made by some people here in a way that would maybe make them realise how wrong it is.
I won't deny I probably took it a bit far, and as stated in my last post, I'm not sure if I was successful or if rather I accidentally made someone legitimately think positively of legalised dog fighting.

I don't blame you for thinking I was serious, that was the whole point.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Horrifying treatment of animals.

Comedy value would have been greatly improved if the bear ate the audience.

 

[yamy]

I'm telling you all now: eventually the animals will go sentient and they'll take revenge on us:


So when the lion comes knocking at your door with an AK...don't say I didn't warn yer *hides in bunker*

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

1st paragraph: lol wut? XD

It'd be nice to dream about but I don't see how it could possibly be done. They're not gonna fight unless they're made aggressive in some way. Anyway fun to think about.

Well no one was expecting something like that to happen. Also it's a little difficult for a monkey to run anywhere if they're int he jaws of a bears.
When wild dogs fight however, they are equals. Retreating in the middle of a fight is an option. When a bear has it's jaws around your torso though... yeah.

If it was made legal an didn't involve torture and the dogs dying then maybe... But I don't see how that could be possible.
Edit: Also as far as I know dog's don't understand puns or what Rocky is.

Ok, I think you've caught on to the fact that I was being insincere... either that or you have a very slight touch of sociopathy... either that or I made a much more convincing argument than I expected or had intended to.

No, dog fighting is never alright, to think its okay to deliberately put an animal in harms way for our amusement is disgusting.
Now whilst I understand that the situation in the video above does differ from dog fighting, my intent was to demonstrate that the incident occurred due to human fault and that it wasn't just "nature". Humans put those animals in an "unnatural" environment and situation, because of that the monkey was killed.
I'm not saying there's anything morally wrong with training an animal like a bear to do tricks (though personally I find it distasteful) but there is something wrong with making predator and prey preform together, especially in a situation where control over the animals is severely limited.

Oh and for the record, the whole "dog fighting always involves torture" argument is right, but it could also be claimed that if not all then most instances of preforming bears (and some other animals) involve mistreatment/poaching and other such things.

I thought you were talking abut dogs as if they could act like humans. Thought there was no point in trying to push against something that bizarre.

And yes I suppose putting a predator and it's prey in an environment like that would be a bad idea although with training it works fine. Works with tigers and humans/other animals.

Also if that really was the point you were trying to get across it sure as hell didn't seem that way.

 

[Quaxar]

And here I thought bear cycling wouldn't still be happening in my lifetime. Thought it's probably bearly legal that they're still doing it is grizzly reality.

I think I'm all out of bear puns now. I shouldn't panda to my urges anyway.