Murders' of Goth have their sentences reduced, WTF!?

[Sylocat]

ok ok. All this thread is doing is making absolutely everyone hate me. ENOUGH!
I really think people can change. THe whole point of prsons i think should be to explain to these people why what they did is wrong, make them feel remorse, and make sure they don't do it again.
as for the laughing, many young people deal with awkward things by laughing at it. I'm just sayin'.

If they define having committed murder as "an awkward situation," they are WAY beyond rehabilitation.

So they might regret it later. IT'S. TOO. LATE. They made their bed, they have to lay in it.

There is a difference between being "young and foolish" and being "malicious." These people are malicious. There can be no mistake about this. "Young and foolish" people do a lot of stupid stuff, but murdering someone who had done nothing wrong just because they looked different is NOT one of them.

*sigh* Sorry to go on rants like this, guys, but I am just a LITTLE too pissed off right now to ignore this stuff.

 

[TheDean]

ok ok. All this thread is doing is making absolutely everyone hate me. ENOUGH!
I really think people can change. THe whole point of prsons i think should be to explain to these people why what they did is wrong, make them feel remorse, and make sure they don't do it again.
as for the laughing, many young people deal with awkward things by laughing at it. I'm just sayin'.

If they define having committed murder as "an awkward situation," they are WAY beyond rehabilitation.

So they might regret it later. IT'S. TOO. LATE. They made their bed, they have to lay in it.

There is a difference between being "young and foolish" and being "malicious." These people are malicious. There can be no mistake about this. "Young and foolish" people do a lot of stupid stuff, but murdering someone who had done nothing wrong just because they looked different is NOT one of them.

*sigh* Sorry to go on rants like this, guys, but I am just a LITTLE too pissed off right now to ignore this stuff.

ok. Murder is bad. WE know that.
They must be punished. We know that.
THey are bad. ok, i get it.
But i'm just saying- yes murder is more han an awkward situation, but laughing IS how some youg people deal with things. THey were probably scared after what they did.
I don't know- maybe i'm giving them too much credit.
Maybe i'm the only one here who thinks they can change and deserve a second chance.
they should be talked to, someone needs to explaibn to them why what they did is wrong, and don't let them out of prison until they understand. how's that?

 

[TheDean]

they'll be out when they're 30? How old are they now?If they are kids, then, despite killing goths being terribe (and i don't get why people would target goths anyway)they are kids-- when they are 30 they are different people, they should be allowed to have a life.

They took away one life and ruined another under the justification of 'they looked different' people like that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near anyone else let alone the privilege to breathe.

I hate the "you look different" mindset, but that doesn't mean they should not be allowed to live. THat is unfair. No matter what they did.

THEY KILLED SOMEONE FOR NO GOOD REASON WHAT SO GOD DAMNED EVER Sorry to put this in caps and bold but jesus christ.

Going by your logic i could kill someone just to see what the hell its like and to put me away for life would be 'unfair' sorry but no.

WOAH! SLow down. I never even suggested that. I'm just saying you can't say they're not allowed to breathe. So they did a bad thing. That doesn't make thwm bad people. It also doens't mean we should remove them from socirty.
No, you can't go around killing people. But imagine this: someone really really annoys you. They make you life hell--you get angry, lash out and kill them. oh noes. now you have to spend the rest of your life in jail. Think about how miserable you would be. They should be put in gaol, but not forever.

Murdering someone for no better reason than they look different and showing little to no remorse about doing so, does make them a bad person. There is no if's and no buts about that what so ever.

I can see where your coming from and I do agree I would be miserable. But on the other hand i killed someone because they annoyed me. I would expect to be put away for life.

And the way i see it if you capable of murdering someone in cold blood for an absolutely pathetic reason such as this then you've just lost your human rights by taking away someone elses.

Of course it makes them bad now, but they won't always be like that. And their reasons for what they did certainbly were pathetic. But they will have to live with that forever. And no, no one should EVER lsoe human rights- since they are human. No one should have the rght to take tour rights away. And i know that the victim had the right to live and it was taken away, and that's why the kilers should be punished for a few years. But i just don't think i would like to oive a miserable life in jail because of something i did that i regret 60 years ago.

Your putting it like they stole something of minor value and are suffering a draconian sentence for it. They took away someone's right to exist without a care in the world and your suggesting that people should care about their rights?

No. You are wrong. I know its your opinion but your still wrong.

yes they took away someone's right to exist, but that dioesn't mean we should take away theirs. what gives us the right?
And i know what they did is really really bad, and i hate them for it believe me, but they WILL feel remore oen day. And they should still have rights. always.
Yes they took away soemone's right to exist, but by imprisoning them for 60 years we are essentially doing the same thing to them. Does that bring the victim back? no. (And i'm sure that right now she doesn't want to be back--because she's dead. i'm just sayin').
i feel sorry for the victim, but doing the same to these people who kiled her won't solve anything. It's like the old two wrongs don't make a right thing.
And i think we really should put more time into preventing rime and les into deling with things that have already happened and s we can do nothing about.

After this point unless you actually come up with a different argument and stop going in circles with what you are saying i'm not going to be replying.

No it doesnt bring the person back but its a thing called Justice.

No it wont do anything apart from let the family's and friends of the victims know that the offenders are paying for what they have done.

All that's been done is that they have been given a slap on the wrist and thats just a joke.

Putting them away for 60 years is saying 'You've fucked up big time and this is your punishment' which is god damned fair. They were 16, they were old enough to know the difference between right and wrong.

They didn't feel remorse when they did it, they didn't hand themselves in after what they'd done and said 'i've killed someone' So why should anyone give a fuck about if they feel remorse a few years down the line? Too little too god damned late. You reap what you sew.

And this is the end of the argument whether you like it to be or not cause I'm sick of this already -.-

wow. even if you disagree with me i at least thought you had the intelligence to see where i'm coming from.
You said yourself they are 16. So am i. I don't want to be punished for things i do now in 60 years time. Yes they know the difference between right and wrong- but doesn't everyone make mistakes and do smoething they regret when they're young? I'm not saying they ahould get a slap on thr wrist. They must be punsihed indeed. But not for 60 years. Jail 'em for a few years until they learn their lesson. THat wikll give them enough time to realise what they did was wrong, and if they do it again they'll have to suffer jail again. Keeping them in ther for all their lives doesn't give them the chance to prove they have changed.

Good gods, man. This isn't larceny, vandalism, or auto theft.

This is murder. Quite frankly, a few years isn't enough to either punish them or rehabilitate them. While life in prison isn't a good option, giving them the same sentence that you might get for car theft, or serious vandalism, simply isn't just. What if somebody killed you, or one of your friends or family? Would you want them walking away in 6 years, as if it had never happened, quite possibly to repeat their crimes? You sympathize far too much with the criminal, or far too less with the victim.

Sympathy never was my strong point. I jsut think if in [prison we make thm understand what they did was wrong- then we can let them out when they do

 

[LewsTherin]

I am angered.

I extend my condolences to the next of kin, friends, etc. of the victim.

I also extend my pity to the shameless murders for having squandered their existence in such a way.

 

[SaintDuskfall]

Typical twats.They should get life.

I feel sorry the chap who lost his girlfriend, must be very hard for him.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Sadly I feel that the common chav culture now is 'if you don't look like us, you're weird and we have every right to abuse, attack you, and steal anything you own'.

Now I'm not tarring anyone who owns a baseball cap and a gold chain with the same brush, but the majority of them that I've experienced do seem to constantly radiate an aura of 'hostile', a 'look at me wrong and I'll beat you' instinct, and there does seem to be a dislike of anyone not dressed like them.

Goths ,emos, skate kids, etc, all have their own cliques, but I never feel threatened by them, its only the chav culture that seems to revolve around agression and crime. If I drove into a car park and saw a bunch of goths, or a bunch of chavs, in the second instance I'd consider looking for a different parking space, because I like my windows.

I'm sure it's happened but I've never heard of a chav being beaten up by a group of goths for not wearing enough black.

Also the facts are, if it had been one chav on his own, he'd not have had the courage to fight the girl, never mind the guy who was originally attacked, they only attack when they outnumber or are sure they can win. Look at the reports in the papers, you never read 'A lone chav beat up some people' its always 'Daz,Baz, and Gaz Chavley all jumped a goth 5 years younger than them and beat him into hospital then filmed it on their stolen phones and laughed.'

I'm not surprised to see such anti chav vitriol here, as I feel the escapist has a more intelligent readership than some forums, and chavs also seem to revel in knowing nothing, ignorance being a bigger badge of honour than an ASBO.

I'm sure I've mentioned it a few times before, but I've been verbally abused in the street before, for the crime of walking along while..reading a book. Of course, the best insult they could manage was 'haa, look at him, he's reading..a book! hahaa!'.

I'm looking up now and realising the number of posts that have said 'I'll stop here or it'll end up a rant' and..oops, sorry!

Honestly, tho, dress how you like, listen to whatever music you like, I don't care, but the moment you start breaking the law, abusing people for no reason, attacking people because difference confuses or scares you, you've stepped over a line.

I'll sum up with perhaps my favourite line 'Baseball caps are like pubic hair, you can remove it, but there's still a c*** underneath'

 

[SenseOfTumour]

i do dress in mainly black and am a goth (just not to the point of make up and jewlery...yet)

they laugh at me because i am different
i laugh at them because they are all the same

You laugh? you're not a goth then!

Kidding, and apologies for using the phrase chav culture, I only meant culture in the way mould grows on otherwise good things and makes them all over worse.

and as for the above, yeah, joyriding is idiocy and not thinking about the consequences, and should carry a stiff term, but its not murder. Repeatedly kicking someone to death because you don't like how their hair looks, its beyond murder, and they need to be removed from society. Some chavs seem to have fully embraced the mentality of the serial killer, where there's no humanity, and attacking people or stealing from them has no guilt, as they are not like the chav, they have no value except for what they can offer the chav.

I like the idea of a chav prison where there's only BBC4 and the History channel on TV, only Classic FM on the radio, and the only magazines to enter the prison are New Scientiest etc, and they're forced to attend daily classes in Latin and other such subjects.

Damn I almost hate it when the word chav even appears in a forum as I end up typing half an internet on the subject.

I'm with the Patrician of Discworld on justice in this case, just lock up anyone looking chavvy, you might not get all the criminals , but overall, it balances out, and it'll save a lot of time.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Sorry for a third in a row, but its a different subject, and it breaks up the wall'o'text.

I'm wondering how in hell a lawyer can stand there and plead for a reduced sentence while his clients are slumped in the dock, knuckles dragging on the floor going 'hur hur hur I hit a goff'. How, when these scum show NO remorse and actually find murdering innocent people funny, are they getting reduced sentences?

Hell, I couldn't be a lawyer, I'd be going 'Screw that, I just don't NEED money enough to try to defend that. Defend a case if its possible they're not guilty, sure but when they've been convicted, to try to beg for mercy for them when they won't even do it themselves...damn.

 

[axia777]

Like I said before. I am a father and if this was my daughter I would kill these fools by my self. Death to anyone the fucks with my family.

 

[Melaisis]

The entire thing has been in need of reform for years. Unfortunately, sorting out how we charge murderers is never high on the list of priorities that voters decide on.

 

[Sylocat]

ok. Murder is bad. WE know that.
They must be punished. We know that.
THey are bad. ok, i get it.
But i'm just saying- yes murder is more han an awkward situation, but laughing IS how some youg people deal with things. THey were probably scared after what they did.
I don't know- maybe i'm giving them too much credit.
Maybe i'm the only one here who thinks they can change and deserve a second chance.
they should be talked to, someone needs to explaibn to them why what they did is wrong, and don't let them out of prison until they understand. how's that?

"Don't let them out until they understand?" I'm sure it sounds all peachy and candy-colored in theory, but the problem is, at any time they can SAY they understand, and PRETEND to understand, but they do not.
When I was 16, I knew that killing people was wrong. I knew that killing people based on how they looked was REALLY wrong. If I had the sense to know that at 16, I don't see why it's unreasonable to expect that other people at that age will know it too.

 

[Molikroth]

Justice is what people with power say it is. It's just exercising power. This wouldn't upset me if the people with power would come out and admit that, rather than saying justice is one thing, and that it's "right", then acting differently. I don't like hypocrisy.

 

[AgentNein]

I don't know if anybody else mentioned this (I'm too lazy to read through four or five whole pages), but this reminds me of a murder that happened about ten or more years ago to this 19 year old kid Brian Deneke, punk rocker from Texas.

His murderer ran him over, and subsequently got ten years probation and a ten thousand dollar fine. The guy subsequently broke his terms of probation and got eight years in prison.

 

[AwesomeHat]

I get similar shit. I've been attacked in the street and get abuse shouted a fair bit - I'm no goth, I wear jeans and a camo jacket, lol. It's just due to the fact that I have a ponytail, thus, by some abortion of logic, I must be a "fckin goff" or whatever. Good thing I learned to fight.

Attempting to walk away and ignore them does NOT work on these brainless scum; they're more likely to attack. Gotta make them convinced that you are gonna put up a fight, and if it does come to blows, you've really gotta hurt one of them, and fast. If you manage to get one down, stamp them. They may be confident in a group but if they see their friend lying on the floor they'll think twice.

I'd never been in a fight before I came to England. I realise this post makes me sound like a seriously violent asshole, but this is defensive. I've never started a fight, but I will finish them, if I'm able.

"Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six."

 

[TheDean]

ok. Murder is bad. WE know that.
They must be punished. We know that.
THey are bad. ok, i get it.
But i'm just saying- yes murder is more han an awkward situation, but laughing IS how some youg people deal with things. THey were probably scared after what they did.
I don't know- maybe i'm giving them too much credit.
Maybe i'm the only one here who thinks they can change and deserve a second chance.
they should be talked to, someone needs to explaibn to them why what they did is wrong, and don't let them out of prison until they understand. how's that?

"Don't let them out until they understand?" I'm sure it sounds all peachy and candy-colored in theory, but the problem is, at any time they can SAY they understand, and PRETEND to understand, but they do not.
When I was 16, I knew that killing people was wrong. I knew that killing people based on how they looked was REALLY wrong. If I had the sense to know that at 16, I don't see why it's unreasonable to expect that other people at that age will know it too.

i guess you are right, but i do think people should be given a second chance.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I would agree with PEOPLE getting a second chance, but all my experience of chavs makes me feel that they barely qualify as PEOPLE... They are hardly able of acting civilised in any way other than going to the post office to collect their benefit check and buy fags and cheap cider and anyone not like them is given nothing but abuse or violence.

Why should we forgive them? They are violent thugs and should we let them back on the streets I fully expect them to do exactly the same thing. To start preventing crime we need to first have stricter punishments and make sure we ENFORCE them, We should make sure that it is understood that if you commit murder you get a bullet to the head and that there is NO COMPROMISE, man-slaughter is a tougher one as it's accidental, but should still carry a hefty punishment so go for the "life" sentence of 25 years asa the guilt of the criminal would also be a punishment.

If you commit a crime you are punished, no parole, no appeal, no hope.
This would perhaps breed a culture of fear yes, but if you obey the rules why would you need to be scared? All that needs to be done is ensuring that there is ample evidence in less clear cases, so I say use systems like in the film Demolition Man, chip everyone and track the chips at ALL times and have high-definition, high-quality camera's everywhere in public areas, if your not breaking the law why should you be worried?

 

[AwesomeHat]

This would perhaps breed a culture of fear yes, but if you obey the rules why would you need to be scared? All that needs to be done is ensuring that there is ample evidence in less clear cases, so I say use systems like in the film Demolition Man, chip everyone and track the chips at ALL times and have high-definition, high-quality camera's everywhere in public areas, if your not breaking the law why should you be worried?

Because the chipping system doesn't work. If you didn't notice the UK government tried something like this (although I think it was some sort of ankle bracelet) and the "tagged" people broke their curfews, and still broke the law. I think one or two even murdered. I remember one that killed a girl about a week after his ankle thingy was taken off. - I say ankle thingy as I can't remember the details; I believe it was on the ankle, but I think they may have given up on it about a year back.

 

[Spleeni]

I think that the best solution would be to attack the problem at the source. More cops!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Because the chipping system doesn't work. If you didn't notice the UK government tried something like this (although I think it was some sort of ankle bracelet) and the "tagged" people broke their curfews, and still broke the law. I think one or two even murdered. I remember one that killed a girl about a week after his ankle thingy was taken off. - I say ankle thingy as I can't remember the details; I believe it was on the ankle, but I think they may have given up on it about a year back.

I meant tag everyone, criminals and normals alike with an internal chip, perhaps in the brain and put the money into ensuring that its a secure system (I know that is a tough thing to achieve) then have a very stiff punishment for interfering with the tags in any way.