My Only Problem with Reach

[ShadowsofHope]

Does it really matter either way in said case, on second thought? It was a symbolic death to show to easily, quickly, and randomly anyone could have died on Reach, or the war in general. And how lucky anyone remaining alive actually is. That was the real purpose behind the scene.

It shouldn't matter. I know what the point of the scene is, and I applaud the effort.

Spoiler: More real spoilery stuff.

The problem for me is that the exact cause of death threw me out of the experience, because intimate knowledge with the guns, especially at that point in the game, caused me to get so caught up with the disconnect between game mechanics and that one singular cutscene that it was hard to get back into the experience for awhile. Especially since game mechanics kicked in for any other "action" cutscene, like the aforementioned "Emile and Six jump out of Pelican" scene.

The real problem, however, lies in the fact that we even have to argue about it in the first place. It doesn't matter if people can come up with rationalizations. If the player has to think about why a single Needle Rifle round was enough to kill Kat, the cutscene has failed to serve its purpose.

The solution, in my opinion, would've been to use a different weapon that is capable of one-hit-kills. Have the Elite use a stolen sniper rifle. Use a plasma launcher. Hell, have a fucking cameo of the beam rifle. No one would think about whether her shields were up, whether there was some EMP, or anything. They would see Kat getting abruptly killed by a weapon that can kill someone abruptly, and not question a damn thing. Then they could take in the actual scene for what it's supposed to be.

EDIT: Before anyone gives me the "Ooh, well if the Beam Rifle was in, then people would be wondering why you the player can't use it," I'd like to point out that the Elites, especially later in the game, have a tendency to dual-wield Plasma Rifles, and still use melee attacks. You can't dual-wield, but no one's questioning an Elite's ability to.

I know, yeah. Halo has never been a perfect game at everything, nonetheless. Heck, I didn't even notice something out of place my first playthrough, I was just enjoying the game for the game's sake. Only when I came onto the Escapist, did I have any idea people were noticing something out of place.

 

[RaZor921]

He was Hungarian, not British

Wait what? I clicked on Quote goddamnit

 

[RaZor921]

The only Halo character I gave a crap about was Jorge because he was british and had chain gun.

Spoiler

R.I.P. big guy

He was Hungarian, not British

NOW it works

 

[Fenolio]

Jun actually does die. if you beat the last mission on Legendary you can find his body on the "lone Wolf" mission.

Negative.
They are just sparten corpses that are randomised with different armor / color.
Because its rally point Omega, meaning that little hill is the place to go to when everything else has gone to hell. 6 didnt just end up there for no reason

Edit:
About Kats death....

Spoiler

I too agree that it was a disconnect from the drama, emp is disproved by the fact the goddamn elevator still works. It should have shown everyones shield being popped at the top of the building so that you were chanting in your head "ohshitnosheildsrunrunrunrun*shot*GODDAMMITYOUBAS****S"
Other than, "Hot damn the covenent started glassi-WTF?! WHAT HAPPENED TO HER SHEILDS? WAS THAT A GODDAMN NEEDLE RIFLE?! HOW IN ALL THAT IS HOLY, 5 SPARTENS COULDNT SEE / HEAR THE GODDAMN PHANTOM HOVERING 5 FEET ABOVE THEM IF THAT JACKEL COULD KILL KAT THAT EASILY WHY NOT 6?! HE'S STOOD RIGHT THERE!"
/Rant

Remember kids, Caps lock is cruise control for cool.

 

[joemegson94]

Why don't you just spoil theplot for people who haven't bought it yet?

 

[RaZor921]

Spoiler: Should probably start spoiler tagging these like everyone else has.

Just moments is incorrect. After the explosion, they had time to get to an elevator, ride said (still working despite the suggested EMP) elevator down from the top of the huge ONI building to ground level, put on her helmet, yell at Carter, and then get shot mid-sentence.

I'm pretty sure that's more than a few moments, and more than enough time for shields to regenerate fully.

Even without all that other stuff. They rode down an elevator from the top of a building that reached above the clouds, to ground level. That alone is plenty of time for shield regeneration. Besides, the elevator definitely would've been rendered non-functional if there was an EMP in the first place.

[/quote]
I remember reading in the novels (BEFORE the game came out) that standard UNSC tech is EMP-Resistant, this however, does NOT apply to the shielding technology used by the MJOLNIR armor, thus it makes perfect sense that the shields would be down, but not the elevator.

 

[LightspeedJack]

The only Halo character I gave a crap about was Jorge because he was british and had chain gun.

Spoiler

R.I.P. big guy

He was Hungarian, not British

NOW it works

Oh I never really paid much attention to the story but his voice did sound kind of English.

 

[Dogstile]

Well, Halo games have never been good at making you like their characters.

Lies, everyone loved johnson

Yeah...ten years ago.

first halo came out 9 years ago, insult fail.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

I don't see why the characters should have been developed further than the cursory backgrounds they were given. Look, I know story and plot is important in games nowadays, but the game we're talking about is Reach. We know before the game has even loaded that any and all characters we will encounter will die (brutally or heroically, take your pick) because the history of the Halo universe says that Reach gets glassed by the Covenant. The intro confirms this, and even as Carter is introducing Noble team to Six you've already tagged them all as dead men walking.

I'd have been a bit annoyed if Bungie tried to spend time that I could have used blasting Elites in order to develop a character that they and I knew was gonna snuff it.

 

[similar.squirrel]

I didn't like the mangled Hungarian of the mustachioed fellow. Didn't help that he spoke in a broad British accent most of the time, either...

 

[RaZor921]

Well Reach is a easter european colony (Mostly Slovakian and Hungarian), and seeing as Jorge both is a Reach native and speaks Hungarian at several points in the game, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that he's Hungarian

 

[Naota_391]

Why don't you just spoil theplot for people who haven't bought it yet?

EVERYONE DIES

SOMEDAY

 

[HellbirdIV]

I liked how the Spartans had their deaths tied to their personalities, in different respects.

Spoiler

Jorge believed Halsey - the last person in his life who truly mattered to him - was dead, as shown in the cutscene after the first dogfight section of that mission. He gave his life believing he was saving Reach as a whole, thinking it a good enough way to go with nothing else left.

Carter's death was very Spartan like, already fatally injured and in a barely functional Pelican he gave his life for the mission just like Jorge. Emile and Six didn't have time to be slowed down by the Scarab, but fortunately, ramming always works.

Kat's death is both a very typical "oh fucksake I can't believe the writers just did that"-death, very thematic given the grim nature of the losing war they're depicting (just look at this thread to see the reactions they've successfully provoked), and befitting her character as depicted in other sources. It is speculated, at least, that the reason her shields were down were quite simple: She didn't activate them. She was too distracted trying to get everything else straightened out. Just a minute's distraction, but it was enough for the Phantom hunting survivors.

As for both Emile and Noble Six, they're just going down fighting, the Spartan way.

In my opinion, the strongest story the Halo franchise has done, character-wise. Though Cortana's journey through CE, 2 and 3 is a very close second.

 

[Jark212]

You cared about kats death?

It was pathetic.

Spoiler

I mean, where the fuck were her shields?

Spoiler

I believe the explosions and collapsing building they were trying to get out of disabled all their shields. It isn't explicitly said.

Spoiler

in which case, i'll just laugh about the fact that she had /just/ put on her helmet when that happened. Those things never do work do they? XD

Spoiler

That's a good point, for all we know, her suit hadn't powered up her shields because it was still re-sealing after putting the helmet back on

Pure speculation mind you.

From Halopedia:

Spoiler

"Kat's death can be attributed due to a fatal lack of situational awareness. Like the loss of her right arm in a previous operation, Kat underestimated the gravity of her situation and failed to initiate her armor's shielding system. However, another explanation could be that excess radiation from the nearby Covenant glassing shorted out her shields, as she was exposed to the radiation much longer than the others of Noble Team."

 

[SelectivelyEvil13]

I found Reach to be a very acomplished Halo title and stands next to only CE as any that I actually liked. I did find the story rather brief given the magnitude of the circumstances (dying repeatedly on a higher difficulty does not constitute as story lengthening) and all that would transpire. The characterization, limited as it was, really added to the game nicely when the past games are mentioned (I never played ODST though). However, some more insight as to what made each of the Noble Team members stand out would have helped, as the OP stated, to connect with them more.

Reach stands out for me as someone who is not really a "Halo fan" because it still had smooth gameplay and transitioning, enemies that were depicted with a more visceral and alien nature backed up with great AI, and the best gun balance to me of the other games. But I can't deny that the story was unfortunately not as deep or provoking as it could have been. Considering the supposedly general appeal Halo is supposed to offer, I don't think that outside books should have any sway on whether or not the average person can connect with the story.

One detail that did pester me often enough to prove downright annoying was the lack of intelligent ally AI, particularly for driving. How often they would just sit on their hands while I'm trying to fend off a horde of enemies as a wraith is ready to blow us to hell. Lesson: Spartan and USMC drivers ed FAILS miserably....

Nevertheless, great job Bungie and farewell Halo-before-MicroMilking!

Spoiler: click to reveal rest of quote/snip

Does it really matter either way in said case, on second thought? It was a symbolic death to show to easily, quickly, and randomly anyone could have died on Reach, or the war in general. And how lucky anyone remaining alive actually is. That was the real purpose behind the scene.

It shouldn't matter. I know what the point of the scene is, and I applaud the effort.

Spoiler: More real spoilery stuff.

The problem for me is that the exact cause of death threw me out of the experience, because intimate knowledge with the guns, especially at that point in the game, caused me to get so caught up with the disconnect between game mechanics and that one singular cutscene that it was hard to get back into the experience for awhile. Especially since game mechanics kicked in for any other "action" cutscene, like the aforementioned "Emile and Six jump out of Pelican" scene.

The real problem, however, lies in the fact that we even have to argue about it in the first place. It doesn't matter if people can come up with rationalizations. If the player has to think about why a single Needle Rifle round was enough to kill Kat, the cutscene has failed to serve its purpose.

The solution, in my opinion, would've been to use a different weapon that is capable of one-hit-kills. Have the Elite use a stolen sniper rifle. Use a plasma launcher. Hell, have a fucking cameo of the beam rifle. No one would think about whether her shields were up, whether there was some EMP, or anything. They would see Kat getting abruptly killed by a weapon that can kill someone abruptly, and not question a damn thing. Then they could take in the actual scene for what it's supposed to be.

EDIT: Before anyone gives me the "Ooh, well if the Beam Rifle was in, then people would be wondering why you the player can't use it," I'd like to point out that the Elites, especially later in the game, have a tendency to dual-wield Plasma Rifles, and still use melee attacks. You can't dual-wield, but no one's questioning an Elite's ability to.

That is a fine way to explain that account and pertains to how I felt during that scene. It was rather bathetic to watch another of six Spartans drop like a fly from a weapon that gave me the impression that it was not that powerful. Just playing through the game and up to that cutscene, it is an easy enough "huh?" moment as there is no definitive explanation.

Spoiler: again, click to reveal spoiler/space-saver/snip

I agree with you there. I wondered why my needle rifle shots took 5 or 6 shots to kill from that point on.
there's actually a weak rationalization I heard about this: maybe she used the battery that powered her shield to boost the radio signal enough to pick up the transmission.
a needle rifle can one hit you if your shield is down
Hearing that didn't make me happy.


but still the reason her death pissed me off is that she was my favorite one who was left.

it wouldn't have been so bad if Emile got shot.
I didn't give a fuck about him. I gave even less of a fuck about him after he did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help me finish the last mission on legendary.

I was not really upset by the death, so much as disappointed. It was quite inconvenient that Emile is the least explored character, and yet he only proves himself in one bloody scene, and that's when

Spoiler

he dies for crying out loud! Sure it was an awesome fight to the last breath, slaying the sword-wielding elites

. I must also concur on his helpfulness; I was laughing at the imbecile trying to fight covenant forces at moderately long enough range with a shotgun...

 

[Nieroshai]

....was that none of the characters were developed.

True, I was sad when Kat and the others died, but I couldn't really connect to the characters because the single player was short, and they weren't even around all that often.

I find this to be a problem with FPS, and shooters in general. Often these characters don't say much that isn't a taunt or something to advance the plot, and as a result you find it hard to sympathize with them.

Most other game series don;t have this problem, as you are often given points in the story to interact and just TALK with these characters.

Look at Mass Effect 2, we all love it (just a figure of speech folks), and 90% of the game is dialogue. Granted, its Bioware, but still, it would be nice to have some down time and be given some time to explore these other characters.

Exceptions to this case are people who appear throughout sequels and are given more chances to shine. Cortana, Soap, Wesker, all examples of characters who have developed somewhat over their game series. But this is because they live throughout. The whole of Noble team dies (well mostly) and none of them appear in any of the books, shorts, or comics, and they never will. I rally wanted to see Jorge interact with that Hungarian scientist more, I wanted to know more about Emile's history, but now I never will.

What are your thoughts on these topics?

EDIT:
This was not only a problem with Reach, just FPSs in general.
No, I miss Jorge too.
No, I was not expecting some deep characters, I'm just sad that they couldn't have been more developed.
How in anyway was Kat's death stupid? A sniper took her out from a place impossible to predict.
There were some other Spartans besides Master Chief who survived Reach, so it's too bad that none of the team besides Jun make it.
Kinda want a non-cannon Halo RPG like Mass Effect 2 where you assemble a team to destroy some grave Covenant threat.
Also want to know what happens to all these random A.I. like Dot, Serina, and the Superintendent.

Your idea for a Mass Effect-style RPG Halo? If we petition hard enough, maybe Microsoft will make that the format of a new Halo sequel. I think that would be cool, and a good excuse to flesh out the Spartans more.

 

[Nieroshai]

Spoiler: For the sake of anyone who has actually not managed to be spoiled at this point.

I agree with you there. I wondered why my needle rifle shots took 5 or 6 shots to kill from that point on.
there's actually a weak rationalization I heard about this: maybe she used the battery that powered her shield to boost the radio signal enough to pick up the transmission.
a needle rifle can one hit you if your shield is down

Hearing that didn't make me happy.

Wow, that's just... what?

Spoiler

If that's the case, wouldn't there be a fucking wire connecting the communicator to her armor? I seriously doubt those suits have induction coils to power external devices.

That's the worst rationalization I've ever heard for this. I can at least understand some of the others, like the EMP one, as much as I fight it.

When's the last time you were sniped in the head in a multiplayer match and didn't drop like a stone? The sniper weapons in the game are MADE to kill in one hit if you aim for the sweet spot. And so in cutscenes this will still work that way. As for the connector: the Spartans have REACTORS on their backs, how is having induction coils any more implausible? That and MAN-PORTABLE INTEGRATED FORCE FIELDS when even UNSC ships don't have shields yet.