...........Woodsey said:You're right, I'm sure the cover system makes you totally invisible *rolls eyes several times*.
:|
that wasn't my point..I'm just saying it's going to be as stealthy as any other GoW clone.
...........Woodsey said:You're right, I'm sure the cover system makes you totally invisible *rolls eyes several times*.
I fail to see how keeping that sort of mechanic would not work on a console though. It hasn't been dumbed down FOR CONSOLES it has just been dumbed down. The developer's could spend time programming the bio-energy recharge stations and balancing their frequency through the game and finding the right balance of energy points to health regen and other augmentations. Or they could just stick regenerating health in and make their job a tonne easier.incal11 said:Seriously though, the regenerative augmentation came late in the game, had to be turned on and off and consumed electrical energy which didn't regenerate alone either. Dumping all that for halo-like regeneration is still a dumbing down, sort of an insult to the players' intelligence.
Okay... *another lengthy ***** incoming*Dexter111 said:...Take Left4Dead for instance, it would take a HUGE element of that game if people would be able to auto-regenerate
Also, it's a fact that designing a game for consoles (also) leads to dumbing it down... see the stuff about Duke Nukem Forever for instance:
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/65442
Unfortunately, I was only able to carry two weapons at a time. I was hoping to carry Duke's full arsenal, but it looks like we're going to be dealing with weapon juggling. I'm not sure how this will play out. It could encourage using a variety of weapons, but it could fall flat, angering fans of classic PC FPS games. The other warning sign is that I was only fighting two to four enemies at a time, maximum. I hope this is based upon that level that I played and not a larger issue.Yeah, blame us for it if you want. It may change in the future and I don't know what will happen with it, but it was us. I stand by it too, as you cannot discount designing games for a modern world and part of that world is consoles where the bulk of the sales can be. And on those consoles you have a controller. We tried for a long time to support lots of guns but we simply could not find a nice way to map it to a controller, despite trying 4-5 designs. We gave it enough time and decided to stop swimming against the current and adopt what was basically the "standard".
It's not 1996 anymore.
I just checked and yes it shows a cutscene kill, no actual player involvement, which is something I've read from people who have had hands on experience with the game. I don't want to set something up, press a button and then have a camera change and watch the game take over. I want to participate in the game, do the actual hitting, stabbing whatever. I want to stay in first person damn it.Mrhappyface 2 said:Really? Didn't the main character land on two dudes and stab them Ezio-style in the trailer?octafish said:Why is everyone focused on the health system and electronic wack-a-mole? Revolutions won't let you make stealth kills. Sneak close to the enemy and get a stealth kill prompt and *bang* cinematic... Bullshit. A QTE by any other name would suck just as hard.
If you chose the cost-reducing augmentation as well, it was actually fairly cheap, in terms of energy use. Cheap enough that you could "run and gun" with it, if you wanted to.Cynical skeptic said:I'm saddened that people are agreeing with you.Woodsey said:[snip]
You had to sacrifice a very valuable augmentation slot to get "regenerating health." You had to use even more valuable energy to regenerate your health.
And that is exactly what the lead designer said he was trying to avoidThe fact health doesn't seem to matter anymore, that game design is all about leading people by the hand through a series of vicarious spectacles, designed mostly to make the player feel awesome despite the fact s/he doesn't really accomplish anything is an insult to everyone.
I absolutely agree with you. However, regenerating health is more of a symptom than a cause.The fact people lap up such design like its innovative or progressive is an insult to game design as a whole.
Easy has come to mean "fun." People just want to make effortless strides of progress. A game [http://www.progressquest.com] designed to mock this became more popular than the game it as originally mocking (everquest).
I, for one, am not particularly bothered by the inclusion of regenerating health, on principal; however, it's how it's used that matters. If it regenerates so fast that you literally can't die unless you stand still and do nothing, then I will have a problem. If it regenerates so slow (and only out of combat) that you have to sit in a corner for 5 minutes between battles, will you be happy?Cover systems and passive regenerating health (to hammer a point, deus ex's late game regenerating health augmentation was activated, and really, only similar in name) aren't designed to make the game more realistic, enriching, or whatever. They're designed to dance around the limitations of console controls by reducing the amount you, the player, actually needs to play. Regenerating health so you don't need to move, look, and explore to heal. Cover systems so you don't need to do... anything to avoid incoming fire. They were all about changing first person gaming from a series of tandem actions (strafing towards a health pack while shooting at the big thing that was also shooting at you) to a series of simple actions separated by audible clunks (run to cover, hit b, aim, hit a, take damage, release a until the blood falls off your face, lob nade, repeat). Yea, its somewhat more realistic than doom, but at least in doom making it through levels was a testament to you, not the placement of chest high walls by a benevolent and loving [dev].
Not to mention, if you're playing games hoping for realism, you're completely missing the point of video games and need to go join the fucking army or something, you gungho moron.
[sub][sub][sub]this last bit not directed at anyone in particular, you paranoid and overly zealous mod; that last bit in jest, you overly sensitive individual[/sub][/sub][/sub]
You just won at the internet.Woodsey said:Deus Ex had a regenerative health augment anyway, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.
My problem with regenerating health is that it is passive. No matter how it is tweaked, at the end of the day, I'm still sitting around waiting for the game to let me continue playing.aaron552 said:-snip-
Damn, wasn't expecting that deep of a post, but definitely QFTArec Balrin said:There are some people that just seem programmed to never 'get it'. But I'll try to explain.
As the example was given earlier: a shack you need to get into with a keypad that can be hacked or a number hidden somewhere nearby, a grate behind it leading into the door beneath it and a window that can be lock-picked. That is not Deus Ex. Hell even if you put this shack in a large area populated with lots of distractions and made the shack itself an obstacle to easy access, it wouldn't be Deus Ex.
Some people say Deus Ex is about choices. I disagree: Deus Ex is about freedom and choices are the antithesis of freedom. If you have a choice between A and B, that isn't freedom. If it's A, B and C, that isn't freedom. You can keep going adding choices but you could add thousands of them and at no point will you be giving someone any freedom; they must still decide from a pre-determined set of paths graciously offered to them by the designer. Deus Ex is when in Mario 64 you get a bob-omb to follow you and make it crash into another bob-omb. The bob-ombs are not designed to do that, a programmer simply thought that explosives should set off other explosives and didn't realise that this situation wouldn't apply to any designed experience at any part in the game. It manifested as a fun meta-game players discovered where their wits and skill was strongly tested by trying to get two bob-ombs to collide without touching them.
Deus Ex is where you lay down some simple rules and they populate the entire game and you let them do their work. Freedom is not choice, freedom is simply what enables choice otherwise a choice would be nothing more than a calculation you make for the best possible outcome, a decision on which you are wrong or right. The moment you realise there is no wrong and right in Deus Ex, only consequences, is when the game lives for you. Consequence is freedom. Not simply the consequence of doing one thing and changing a part of the story(something the designers intend to happen no matter which way it goes), but of how early choices affect your later choices. If you choose to use a lockpick over an explosive to get through a door, there could be a reinforced door later that requires a lockpick you don't have so you must search for one(uncovering things you never would have seen otherwise) or find another route(ditto). You could try alternating between your resources to make sure you never run out of any single type of them; you will always have one. But then you could come up to a door that requires five lockpicks, five multitools or three explosives and you only have one or two of each; where as if you specialised in lockpicking and stuck points in it to make good use of picks, you would find you have abundant explosives and multitools to use even though you have no skill invested in them; you can still use them.
In Pac-Man and Bomberman you can only go in four possible directions in total at any time and in many situations those directions are not available whilst in others the wrong turn will cause you to lose. You have few choices but huge freedom in those games. They are Deus Ex.
Deus Ex:HR won't be. Everything I've heard from the developers so far suggests their understanding of the original is painfully simplistic and not anywhere near sentimental enough.
Sounds good. The first game plays like crap these days compared to anything modern and when I first tried playing it early this year I found it painful trying to play past the first couple of levels.Logan Westbrook said:Dugas said that Eidos Montreal had looked at the first two games, and tried to preserve the essence of the Deus Ex series, while building a title that would appeal to a modern audience.
While I agree with you for the most part, FPSRPGs are better with normal health, or the CE system. Straight up FPS needs some form of regeneration or you will encounter points where it's impossible.Woodsey said:I feel so sorry for this man. The amount of *****-fitting that goes into them having a regenerative health system and cover-system is beyond ridiculous.
It's 10 years later.
I dare say that the amount of effort put into whining about such things shows how much supposed fans don't seem to understand; if you think the heart of Deus Ex lays within it's health-system you are sorely mistaken. Deus Ex had a regenerative health augment anyway, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.
I, for one, cannot wait for this.
I think this is WAY more relevant than anything anyone else has said, or cares to notice. Square used to have the Midas touch, but that touch now just turns everything to shit.dududf said:That's cute.
Isn't that what Gas powered said when they were making Supreme Commander 2? They changed publishers to Square Enix iirc.
Oh wait. Deus Ex is being published by Square Enix as well.
I'm not holding my breath here.
Just a few months ago is when I started playing it. I've only gotten as far as the generator on the second level, but I can see why people love the game so much. It really breaks your preconceptions on how to play a first person game. On the surface, it feels like a standard FPS, but if you play it as such, you are going to have a bad time. The game challenges you to find different ways to play the game, and once you get a feel for what they expect you to do, the game becomes AMAZING. I tried playing it years ago with the standard run-and-gun approach, but it felt really dry and boring as such. It turns out the game is much better played like an Elder Scrolls game, where you talk to everyone and get as much exploring and side quests done as you can before you head to your objective.Jonny49 said:I still really need to try out the first Dues Ex, it sounds very, very interesting.