New pose for Tracer #ButtGate

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Silentpony_v1legacy

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Eacaraxe said:
The first thing I really noticed about the pose, is that Tracer's calf clips into her thigh, that the mesh at her knee is a bit distorted, and the pose isn't rotated enough on the Y-axis to hide it well. That indicates a slight lack of polish, which tells me Blizzard likely didn't intend this to be the end product, but created and added it after seeing the backlash to the original pose's removal. Considering the timing, I'm guessing it was an eleventh-hour compromise pose.
Thank you. Well put, reasoned and with a more critical eye of detail than I have. Bravo.

At least some of us know what the words 'stopgap' and 'desperation' are. The pose is/was/always will be a direct reaction to the backlash, despite people thinking the best of Blizzard or that no gaming company has ever lied for good press.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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BloatedGuppy said:
Silentpony said:
At least some of us know what the words 'stopgap' and 'desperation' are. The pose is/was/always will be a direct reaction to the backlash, despite people thinking the best of Blizzard or that no gaming company has ever lied for good press.
Thank God we have you insightful worthies to show the light to us easily hoodwinked sheeple.
Happy to help. Let me know if you want my opinions on Pokemon Sun and Gears of War 4.
It'll be like every other Pokemon game. And there's a beefy dude in armor for cover based shooting
 

Revnak_v1legacy

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Eacaraxe said:
Revnak said:
Really? It cannot be that this was the design team's intention the whole time? Just can't?
Considering that,

A: Blizzard as a game studio is anal retentive about aesthetic and visual polish,

B: Blizzard as a game studio is a chief offender of the "beta as PR, not testing" phenomenon,

C: Overwatch is in release candidate status and has been for months, as it's been in version 1.x since February and its release date was announced a month ago,

no, it cannot be taken as given.
A: Which means they'd be more likely to change a pose they feel iffy about. Also, inflating butt Widowmaker, they've made mistakes before.

B: So what? A game like this is in constant flux anyway.

C: See B. Also, weren't these poses recently released?

Given that, must we assume that the devs scraped together something to appease your righteous fury rather than thinking that maybe they didn't like the original pose and thought they could do a better one? Must we always assume that which most justifies our outrage?

The pose looked seductive and deliberate, new one is dynamic, fun, and flirtatious. Guess which sounds like a better description of Tracer?
Other than the fact this is an a posteriori argument cut from whole cloth after the fact and merrily dances around the chief complaint as originally levied, sure. Again, what exactly was the chief complaint?
That the pose was didn't fit her character due to it being too sexual. Kaplan said nothing about the pose being sexual, just that they were replacing it and that they wanted people to feel heroic and comfortable. Then he stated that they had been planning to remove it for some time. Why must we assume the worst about every design decision?
 

Silvanus

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Eacaraxe said:
Other than the fact this is an a posteriori argument cut from whole cloth after the fact and merrily dances around the chief complaint as originally levied, sure. Again, what exactly was the chief complaint?
Depends what you mean by "chief complaint". There was one forum comment, but we'd surely not be quite so obsessive as to hold that up as a "chief complaint".
 

BrawlMan

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LaughingAtlas said:
I don't think it made much a difference, she still looks like she's about to go 'MEEP-MEEP' and charge off in no particular direction, leaving a very annoyed coyote and a failed ACME product in her wake.
That sounds about accurate. She wouldn't be out of place in Looney Tunes, Animaniacs, or The Mask (Animated Series).
 

Eacaraxe_v1legacy

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Revnak said:
That the pose was didn't fit her character due to it being too sexual. Kaplan said nothing about the pose being sexual, just that they were replacing it and that they wanted people to feel heroic and comfortable. Then he stated that they had been planning to remove it for some time. Why must we assume the worst about every design decision?
Kaplan's initial response, the later (polished) response, and the end product are in contradiction, especially in light of the initial complaint. My interest, at this point, lies with how Blizzard handled this controversy and the decision to change the pose internally, and I believe the lack of polish on the pose holds insight.

You'll notice in my commentary on other threads, my chief point of contention with the complaint is how in the very process of complaining about objectification, the complainant perpetuates a larger, more pervasive, gender stereotype that is harmful to women. That being, and I'll restate here, that sexuality and sexualization are reductive forces in the quality of a woman's character. And, depending on Blizzard's own response, managing to perpetuate that harmful stereotype as a triple-A gaming company.

So -- please exercise caution in generalizations about me, and whatever perception you hold about my "righteous fury" or "outrage" in the future.

Now, had that pose been in development since prior to Kaplan's post, there certainly would have been time to polish it. Change the leg positioning to avoid clipping and mesh distortion, rotating the pose on the Y-axis to hide mesh distortion, altering the mesh to work around the distortion. However, none of this is the case currently -- it was added as-is. In fact, this change is undocumented in the patch notes,

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20742886413

It strikes me, that considering how quickly this escalated, Blizzard would want attention drawn to the change, least of all by documenting the change. However, they didn't.
 

Angelblaze

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Silvanus said:
Eacaraxe said:
Other than the fact this is an a posteriori argument cut from whole cloth after the fact and merrily dances around the chief complaint as originally levied, sure. Again, what exactly was the chief complaint?
Depends what you mean by "chief complaint". There was one forum comment, but we'd surely not be quite so obsessive as to hold that up as a "chief complaint".
Exactly this. This is literally why I stopped caring about people crying censorship. It was one fucking comment. On their character feedback forums no less. No one but that forum poster and Blizzard cared. And to be completely honest -- with every pose showing off a more bright and peppy personality that showed: movement, speed, dexterity and/or cheerfulness YES the pose was out of place.

But no, now we have an overwhelming amount of idiots who somehow think they 'conquered the overwhelming tides of sjws'.
 

Bocaj2000

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This is perfect. They said they were going to change it anyway because the generic OTS was generic. Blizzard delivered.

Ignore controversy, do what you want, profit.

EDIT: Poses like these are only sexy if you perceive them as sexy. The previous one was so neutral it hurt. This one, however, emphasizes her limberness which and be easily be perceived as sexualization. Just relax and play your video game. This is blizzard we're talking about- kings of the undersized belly shirts and oversized shoulder pads.
 

kris40k

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Eacaraxe said:
Revnak said:
Really? It cannot be that this was the design team's intention the whole time? Just can't?
Considering that,

A: Blizzard as a game studio is anal retentive about aesthetic and visual polish,

B: Blizzard as a game studio is a chief offender of the "beta as PR, not testing" phenomenon,

C: Overwatch is in release candidate status and has been for months, as it's been in version 1.x since February and its release date was announced a month ago,

no, it cannot be taken as given.
Now, I think that you are on to something with the idea that the pose was a bit rushed, but...

[image height=320]http://i.imgur.com/PvYOQqq.png[/IMG][image height=320]http://i.imgur.com/2hyg5Yr.png[/IMG]

Lets not give Blizzard too much credit for polish, now.
 

Paragon Fury

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kris40k said:
Eacaraxe said:
Revnak said:
Really? It cannot be that this was the design team's intention the whole time? Just can't?
Considering that,

A: Blizzard as a game studio is anal retentive about aesthetic and visual polish,

B: Blizzard as a game studio is a chief offender of the "beta as PR, not testing" phenomenon,

C: Overwatch is in release candidate status and has been for months, as it's been in version 1.x since February and its release date was announced a month ago,

no, it cannot be taken as given.
Now, I think that you are on to something with the idea that the pose was a bit rushed, but...

[image height=320]http://i.imgur.com/PvYOQqq.png[/IMG][image height=320]http://i.imgur.com/2hyg5Yr.png[/IMG]

Lets not give Blizzard too much credit for polish, now.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those old? I think that is an old Paldain tier set and that is definitely TBC/Wraith-era hat. Blizzard said when they did the updated models in WoD that not everything from the past may work perfectly anymore.
 

Rastrelly

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Windknight said:
Is it a bit too much to hope the CENSORSHIP!!!! crowd are maybe feeling a bit foolish, and self reflective after this?

As I've said elsewhere, its a cute, fun pose that (top me at least) makes me wonder if she has a thing for history.
Not in a single bit. %PCName now thinks this all was a PR act from the beginning to the end, and it's shameful.
 

kris40k

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Paragon Fury said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those old? I think that is an old Paldain tier set and that is definitely TBC/Wraith-era hat. Blizzard said when they did the updated models in WoD that not everything from the past may work perfectly anymore.
To be honest, they are just a couple of random examples I googled real quick when looking up World of Warcraft helmet clipping. It is absolutely in no way the total sum of clipping issues in WoW. Its been going on for a decade. Even your mention about their statement about the new models and older armor shows not so much an obsession for polish as one of " *shrug* Eh, it may work, it may not..."
 

Phasmal

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Honestly this thread makes me feel like I've been living in some parallel dimension.

Blizzard is picky about aesthetic and visual polish?
I'll just be sitting over here with my derphound worgen and trolls that didn't blink for years, trying to figure out which hairstyles will clip into me the least. Hey at least female tauren's tails no longer clip through the back of their knees.



Seriously, I feel like a lot of people have a very different experience with Blizz than I do.
 

The Raw Shark

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This looks almost exactly the fucking same as the last pose.

WHAT THE FUCK WAS ALL THE COMMOTION WORTH THEN?!
 

kris40k

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Phasmal said:
Honestly this thread makes me feel like I've been living in some parallel dimension.

Blizzard is picky about aesthetic and visual polish?
I'll just be sitting over here with my derphound worgen and trolls that didn't blink for years, trying to figure out which hairstyles will clip into me the least. Hey at least female tauren's tails no longer clip through the back of their knees.

Seriously, I feel like a lot of people have a very different experience with Blizz than I do.
I'm with you man. I mean, I like Blizzard's games, but like you mentioned, WoW has had rough spots that were never polished for years, or may even still be untouched. Also, it took them almost two years after release to make Diablo III a decent game? Successful game maker? Sure. Perfection or polish obsessed?

 

Paragon Fury

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Jan 23, 2009
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kris40k said:
Paragon Fury said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those old? I think that is an old Paldain tier set and that is definitely TBC/Wraith-era hat. Blizzard said when they did the updated models in WoD that not everything from the past may work perfectly anymore.
To be honest, they are just a couple of random examples I googled real quick when looking up World of Warcraft helmet clipping. It is absolutely in no way the total sum of clipping issues in WoW. Its been going on for a decade. Even your mention about their statement about the new models and older armor shows not so much an obsession for polish as one of " *shrug* Eh, it may work, it may not..."
Well to be fair...you can't exactly expect them to go back through 4 expansions worth of armor (Vanilla, TBC, Wraith, Cata) and update every single grey, green, blue, purple and gold armor piece to fit perfectly with the new models; that'd be madness even for them.
 

Phasmal

Sailor Jupiter Woman
Jun 10, 2011
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kris40k said:
Phasmal said:
Honestly this thread makes me feel like I've been living in some parallel dimension.

Blizzard is picky about aesthetic and visual polish?
I'll just be sitting over here with my derphound worgen and trolls that didn't blink for years, trying to figure out which hairstyles will clip into me the least. Hey at least female tauren's tails no longer clip through the back of their knees.

Seriously, I feel like a lot of people have a very different experience with Blizz than I do.
I'm with you man. I mean, I like Blizzard's games, but like you mentioned, WoW has had rough spots that were never polished for years, or may even still be untouched. Also, it took them almost two years after release to make Diablo III a decent game? Successful game maker? Sure. Perfection or polish obsessed?
Oh thank god it's not just me =P . I've been playing Blizzard games for 7+ yrs, met my boyfriend on one, lost countless hours on them, and I was still starting to doubt my own experience!
Blizzard makes mistakes. LOTS. And sometimes they fix it, and other times they act like they don't even see problems until they swoop in and declare how great they are for fixing them.

I mean, Diablo III launch? That was a bit of a pig's ear. Real money auction house went right down the toilet too.
And as you say, it took 'em a while to make D3 that interesting. Me and the boyfriend occasionally pop in for Seasons when we feel like proving we can level faster than our friends (last time we had the wrong time and the cheeky bastards started 20 minutes before us without telling us- we still beat 'em though).

I have a great deal of affection for Blizzard, but I'm not gonna pretend they're a company that is either perfect or never changes their mind when it comes to visual stuff.
 

wulf3n

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Zhukov said:
folks who choose to die on the hill of "buttgate".
What is with the prevalence of this saying all of a sudden? I saw it for the first time ever on this forum several days ago, since then I've seen someone say it in every other forum I've looked at?

OT:

I prefer the old pose TBH.
 

Eacaraxe_v1legacy

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kris40k said:
Even your mention about their statement about the new models and older armor shows not so much an obsession for polish as one of " *shrug* Eh, it may work, it may not..."
We're talking about hundreds of models that would have to be individually redesigned for...what? twenty-six distinct race/gender combinations? some, in many cases, for content that has been live over a decade.