Nintendo Belittles Achievements As "Mythical Rewards"

[AzrealMaximillion]

There was an "achievement system" back with games that came out on cartridges. Hardcore gamers would scratch their high score into the side of the game when they were done with it. My buddy has a copy of Mega Man 2 with 3 high scores etched into the side.

Didn't Nintendo Power used to run a NES Achievers / Power Player's Challenge / Arena?
Yeah they did. And this was back when Nintendo of America published it.

Nintendo gave out "real" prizes for people doing 3 heart runs in LoZ.

They also gave out pins to people who sent pictures of their high scores to them.

And NOW they don't like Achievements? How hypocritical. They essentially popularize achievements in the 80s, drop them and then belittle them. Nice Nintendo.

 

[Baldry]

I like them...They make me do stuff I wouldn't normally do.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

I like achievements. A little more than is healthy most likely. I spend a lot of time torturing myself trying to get points that mean next to nothing.

 

[Jaded Scribe]

I actually find this disappointing. I love achievements (as I talk about here [http://jadedscribe.blogspot.com/2011/01/achievements-and-gaming.html]) and I think they are important to gaming.

If Nintendo wants to keep the openendedness of their games, they only have to make the achievements "hidden" where the player doesn't know what it is unless they earn it (or make the conscious decision to find out online).

...at which point they are no different than 360 Achievements.

Exactly my point. I like the 360 and PS3 achievement/trophy system. A lot of games (Heavy Rain for example) keep all their trophies hidden so players don't know what they are until they get them. But, you have something to work for if that's your thing.

Really? How would you know what to work towards with a secret achievement?

I don't chase Achievements but the secret ones would force me to go look online to find out how to achieve them (so as not to waste time going down the wrong path).

It's like those secrets in games that you could never figure out without a guide. Most people find that stuff unacceptable (like the stupid treasure chests you shouldn't open in FF 12 to get ultimate weapons later on) but secret achievements are good??

No, you stumble upon them in-game. Completing a task a certain way, or taking a certain story branch unlocks the achievements. Without looking anything up, I got probably close to half (and many are mutually exclusive, requiring multiple playthroughs).

A lot of the hidden trophies work that way (similar to how certain Nintendo games give stamps, as they said in the article).

But, if you really want to find them all, then you don't have to go read through extensive guides, you just find a list of what achievements are offered. You can find them in the same kind of setup as the non-hidden achievements are, and so you have a quick reference.

And again, if they aren't your thing, then just don't do them. Unlike other in-game things (like your FF12 example), there is no missing out on awesome items or other in-game rewards if you don't do them.

 

[Jaded Scribe]

*looks at 20 platinum trophies*

I rather enjoy getting them. I'll admit that they feel a bit arbitrary now-a-days, but it definitely adds to the replay value. There's been several games that I feel I would not have kept playing if I wasn't so close to getting a platinum trophy for it. It's not just for bragging either, because I got 121 stars twice on SMG1 just for the fun of it.

Also, this guy would like to disagree as well:

http://www.yourgamercards.net/profile/duck360

So really it seems that the only replay value alot of games have is in the Achievements/Trophies. This is artificial length and eventually people will tire of it.

But, they aren't a huge deal. A bad game, or one that you don't like, isn't going to get you to keep playing just to get achievements. But, it does keep a game interesting after you initially beat it. You can only play through a game so many times before it gets old. This helps keep it fresh just a little bit longer.

And, if you don't have an interest in them, they really don't take away from the gaming experience, and you don't lose anything by not doing them.

I have already explained the cost of Achievements. The loss of cheating devices, like them or not, they are lost.

So just cheat and don't get the achievement?

No one takes Gamerscore seriously. No one takes the amount of trophies you have seriously. It's a fun way to compare with friends, or to challenge yourself in a single game.

They don't cost as much as you think they do. It's a simple choice: Use the cheats (or in games like Halo 3, play only on "Easy"), or get achievements. They take nothing away from the players in choosing how to play.

 

[The Random One]

Ah yes, achievements are mythical and artificial, as opposed to the games themselves, which are real things that completely affect reality in every day. I remember when I ran over some guy in GTA and went to prison.

I love this kind of inter-big-three banter, it's so childish.

 

[proctorninja2]

im not a huge fan of achievements but i admit i get a feeling of joy every time i hear and see achievement unlocked

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

*looks at 20 platinum trophies*

I rather enjoy getting them. I'll admit that they feel a bit arbitrary now-a-days, but it definitely adds to the replay value. There's been several games that I feel I would not have kept playing if I wasn't so close to getting a platinum trophy for it. It's not just for bragging either, because I got 121 stars twice on SMG1 just for the fun of it.

Also, this guy would like to disagree as well:

http://www.yourgamercards.net/profile/duck360

So really it seems that the only replay value alot of games have is in the Achievements/Trophies. This is artificial length and eventually people will tire of it.

But, they aren't a huge deal. A bad game, or one that you don't like, isn't going to get you to keep playing just to get achievements. But, it does keep a game interesting after you initially beat it. You can only play through a game so many times before it gets old. This helps keep it fresh just a little bit longer.

And, if you don't have an interest in them, they really don't take away from the gaming experience, and you don't lose anything by not doing them.

I have already explained the cost of Achievements. The loss of cheating devices, like them or not, they are lost.

I honestly think gamers have gone past cheating at video games to play them. You can still cheat in GTA4 and gain acheivements, as well as Saint's Row 2. There are games where you can cheat and gain acheivements. You really think playing the game with cheats is that much more fun? Then cheat away? Acheivements take nothing away from that. When you cheat you just don't get acheivements in certain games. I honestly didn't think people still cared about cheating a video games these days. I though that went out with GTA San Andreas.

 

[Ghengis John]

Your Gamerscore can't be "Not Participating".

Why can't it be "Doesn't Care"?

That's not me trying to be a smart ass, that's me asking if you really don't want to participate then don't stress out about them. Why care what your gamer score is?

 

[Sean Strife]

...is Shigeru Miyamoto flogging himself in the comfort of his own home to win back gamers everywhere? Seriously, first the Haus of Mario tells Bieber to shove it, now this?

 

[Jaded Scribe]

I actually find this disappointing. I love achievements (as I talk about here [http://jadedscribe.blogspot.com/2011/01/achievements-and-gaming.html]) and I think they are important to gaming.

If Nintendo wants to keep the openendedness of their games, they only have to make the achievements "hidden" where the player doesn't know what it is unless they earn it (or make the conscious decision to find out online).

...at which point they are no different than 360 Achievements.

Exactly my point. I like the 360 and PS3 achievement/trophy system. A lot of games (Heavy Rain for example) keep all their trophies hidden so players don't know what they are until they get them. But, you have something to work for if that's your thing.

Really? How would you know what to work towards with a secret achievement?

I don't chase Achievements but the secret ones would force me to go look online to find out how to achieve them (so as not to waste time going down the wrong path).

It's like those secrets in games that you could never figure out without a guide. Most people find that stuff unacceptable (like the stupid treasure chests you shouldn't open in FF 12 to get ultimate weapons later on) but secret achievements are good??

No, you stumble upon them in-game. Completing a task a certain way, or taking a certain story branch unlocks the achievements. Without looking anything up, I got probably close to half (and many are mutually exclusive, requiring multiple playthroughs).

A lot of the hidden trophies work that way (similar to how certain Nintendo games give stamps, as they said in the article).

But, if you really want to find them all, then you don't have to go read through extensive guides, you just find a list of what achievements are offered. You can find them in the same kind of setup as the non-hidden achievements are, and so you have a quick reference.

And again, if they aren't your thing, then just don't do them. Unlike other in-game things (like your FF12 example), there is no missing out on awesome items or other in-game rewards if you don't do them.

That depends on what value you place on Achievements. If you value Achievements as much as some others value ultimate weapons then it is exactly the same thing and there are plenty of people who value Achievements at that level.

Not all secret achievements can be achieved through normal gameplay and for those that can't, you are going to have to look them up somewhere since the game isn't going to tell you. It is exactly like the FF 12 example. BTW, the ultimate weapons usually aren't "awesome", they are more appealing to those who want to 100% a game, just like those who chase achievements.

Anyway, if you like chasing achievements that's your business and I am not bashing you for that. I am a 100% completion type of person too except that I don't care about achievements because bragging points don't matter to me. I didn't get 120 Shines to impress anyone. Just don't pretend that Achievements don't have a cost.

I responded to your idea of how it costs because you may not be able to do them if you prefer to play a certain way (e.g. via cheats).

It comes down to choice. Achievements vs Cheats. Which is more important to you? As gamers, almost everything we do comes down to a choice. Do we use our powers for good or evil? Do we get upgrades that help us deal more damage, or survive longer? Do we kill a suspicious NPC, or do we let him go and see what happens?

There's no reason to treat Achievements like a bad thing. They are just another choice to be made.

 

[T-Bone24]

I really like achievemnts, when done well. Uncharted 2 was pretty terrible with its handling of trophies: "You killed X enemies with Y weapon! Now do more!" repeated ad nauseum. I like the way that Super Street Fighter IV handled achievments, as you really do have to work at them and they are genuinely achievements.

 

[squid5580]

Does this mean Nintendo games won't have points in them either? Afterall they are the same thing in my eyes

 

[Stabby Joe]

Achievements can be very interesting. For example in the Orange Box, "Little Rocket Man" added a crazy spin of the main game haha.

Other times they can give it some replay value, encouraging you to play it on the hardest difficulty.

Then of course many are pointless like "complete level 3 etc".

 

[Jaded Scribe]

I actually find this disappointing. I love achievements (as I talk about here [http://jadedscribe.blogspot.com/2011/01/achievements-and-gaming.html]) and I think they are important to gaming.

If Nintendo wants to keep the openendedness of their games, they only have to make the achievements "hidden" where the player doesn't know what it is unless they earn it (or make the conscious decision to find out online).

...at which point they are no different than 360 Achievements.

Exactly my point. I like the 360 and PS3 achievement/trophy system. A lot of games (Heavy Rain for example) keep all their trophies hidden so players don't know what they are until they get them. But, you have something to work for if that's your thing.

Really? How would you know what to work towards with a secret achievement?

I don't chase Achievements but the secret ones would force me to go look online to find out how to achieve them (so as not to waste time going down the wrong path).

It's like those secrets in games that you could never figure out without a guide. Most people find that stuff unacceptable (like the stupid treasure chests you shouldn't open in FF 12 to get ultimate weapons later on) but secret achievements are good??

No, you stumble upon them in-game. Completing a task a certain way, or taking a certain story branch unlocks the achievements. Without looking anything up, I got probably close to half (and many are mutually exclusive, requiring multiple playthroughs).

A lot of the hidden trophies work that way (similar to how certain Nintendo games give stamps, as they said in the article).

But, if you really want to find them all, then you don't have to go read through extensive guides, you just find a list of what achievements are offered. You can find them in the same kind of setup as the non-hidden achievements are, and so you have a quick reference.

And again, if they aren't your thing, then just don't do them. Unlike other in-game things (like your FF12 example), there is no missing out on awesome items or other in-game rewards if you don't do them.

That depends on what value you place on Achievements. If you value Achievements as much as some others value ultimate weapons then it is exactly the same thing and there are plenty of people who value Achievements at that level.

Not all secret achievements can be achieved through normal gameplay and for those that can't, you are going to have to look them up somewhere since the game isn't going to tell you. It is exactly like the FF 12 example. BTW, the ultimate weapons usually aren't "awesome", they are more appealing to those who want to 100% a game, just like those who chase achievements.

Anyway, if you like chasing achievements that's your business and I am not bashing you for that. I am a 100% completion type of person too except that I don't care about achievements because bragging points don't matter to me. I didn't get 120 Shines to impress anyone. Just don't pretend that Achievements don't have a cost.

I responded to your idea of how it costs because you may not be able to do them if you prefer to play a certain way (e.g. via cheats).

It comes down to choice. Achievements vs Cheats. Which is more important to you? As gamers, almost everything we do comes down to a choice. Do we use our powers for good or evil? Do we get upgrades that help us deal more damage, or survive longer? Do we kill a suspicious NPC, or do we let him go and see what happens?

There's no reason to treat Achievements like a bad thing. They are just another choice to be made.

Well if Achievements shouldn't be treated like bad things then neither should the other option, cheats. We both know that cheats are looked down upon.

Cheats and achievements are a little different though. The former means you jumped through a game without actually utilizing skill. Game developers discourage this at some level, because more and more, games are becoming art. We may look at the devs like money-hungry corporate baddies who don't care after we fork over our cash. But they are more than that. They want players to experience the game as it was envisioned.

Also, for many games, there are mods that DO allow you to cheat. The game devs may circumscribe the limits of cheating allowed (especially in a multiplayer format). Also, if a game does have multiplayer, cheating mods may be made unavailable even in single player because of how the software is set up. It may be that mods that can change something in single-player can be maneuvered to work in multiplayer, which is bullshit.

 

[Varanfan9]

The only game I'm big on getting achievements in is Team Fortress 2. Most of the time achievements are too hard or way too easy for me.