Nintendo, more than "casual"

[Clearing the Eye]

I think casual games can be summed as as shallow and simplistic.

 

[MetalDooley]

Give me a break. If you're old enough to manipulate a controller, you've long outgrown this

Speak for yourself mate.I'm in my mid 30's and have absolutely no problems with bright,colourful,cute graphics like the images you posted.In fact I would prefer to look at those graphics rather than another "realistic" military shooter any day.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

There is a certain social stigma that Nintendo does "kiddy games". Kiddy in the sense that blood isn't gushing out everywhere sure. Nintendo games generally appeal to everyone, it's just as kids are also the target it has to look kid-friendly.

Give me a break. If you're old enough to manipulate a controller, you've long outgrown this:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

I can handle kiddy, but this is just obnoxious. I wouldn't have liked this as a kid. I guess the Japanese go for it.

It may be that my tastes have changed, but I don't think that is the cause of my current distaste for Nintendo. I can play and enjoy the old Zelda and Mario games. But more recent titles are constantly distracting me with terrible controls and artwork for babies and Japanese people. I don't think Nintendo betrayed their fans exactly. But they definitely aren't what they were when I was a lad.

Nope. I'm a 24 year old guy and that doesn't bother me at all.
Seriously, why can't we have both? Oh wait. We can. I can go from Fallout (the originals or New Vegas) to Super Mario Galaxy to Frozen Synapse and...that's perfectly fine.

I understand not liking a visual style. Hell, there are some games (often Japanese, I admit) that are too "cutesy" even for my liking. But I'm not going to criticize anyone for being childish when I know it's just a matter of preference.

Yeah, I know. The boring old "it's subjective" argument. Everyone is tired of it. But it wouldn't have to be said so much if people didn't keep forgetting it.

I'm glad you're enjoying it, but my point is Nintendo's reputation for making games for pre-fertilized eggs is well deserved. Maybe I shouldn't have called it obnoxious. It is obnoxious, but the point is it's for very young babies. I don't mean to criticize you for liking it. After all, I like a lot of 'kiddy' stuff just fine. I just don't like this.

For the record, no one has ever forgotten that subjective things are subjective in the history of the universe. That's just something people bring up when they don't feel confident enough to argue their point on its merits.

What, you think that's childish? I think it's funny and colourfull and cute, while people who insist on only playing "mature" games and shy away from things like Mario Galaxy are the real children, trying to act grown up.

I don't mean it's immature or putting on airs, I mean it's literally designed to appeal to babies. On a related note, it looks terrible and obnoxious. I realize some nauseating adolescents try very hard to prove their transition into adulthood, but that's a different thing entirely.

snip

Recall that in the old Mario games, every hill and cloud was smiling at you. They just took it to a reasonable 3D conclusion.

I strongly disagree. Mario 64 was the reasonable 3D conclusion. It was plenty cutesy without being fucking weird like the Wii titles. For another example, Zelda isn't more cutesy than it used to be, really, just a lot more fucking weird. I mean what the hell is this?:

Spoiler

You can't tell me shit hasn't changed since I played Ocarina of Time.

 

[Launcelot111]

You can't tell me shit hasn't changed since I played Ocarina of Time.

We obviously differ in opinion about this, but I think you're ignoring a lot of the older Nintendo games and their weirdness. Ocarina of time had talking owls and demonic drum players and that weird thing in the well with all the hands and that section on the skeletal pirate ship in the spirit temple and a whole level inside a giant fish. And let's not forget the abundance of weirdness in Majora's Mask. Super Mario 64 had penguin racing and the giant talking snowman and all sorts of goofy enemies. Nintendo is doing new things of questionable value, but let's not pretend that all the random stuff they throw in is unprecedented.

And really all of that is just distracting from the point that the central gameplay mechanics have really either held steady or improved for Zelda and Mario.

 

[RaikuFA]

Which brings me to my last point. Nintendo never betrayed their fans.

Rainfall proved this wrong. That's the only point that bugs me.

 

[him over there]

Which brings me to my last point. Nintendo never betrayed their fans.

Rainfall proved this wrong. That's the only point that bugs me.

Okay, so maybe Nintendo betrayed their american fans because they feared that the rainfall games were too niche to benefit them but I was more so talking about age demographics. The people who grew up with them are angry that the games aren't aimed at them now that they aren't kids, but Nintendo simply moved on to the next generation of children.

And yes I would love if they released a lot more of their Japan only games over here.

 

[RaikuFA]

Which brings me to my last point. Nintendo never betrayed their fans.

Rainfall proved this wrong. That's the only point that bugs me.

Okay, so maybe Nintendo betrayed their american fans because they feared that the rainfall games were too niche to benefit them but I was more so talking about age demographics. The people who grew up with them are angry that the games aren't aimed at them now that they aren't kids, but Nintendo simply moved on to the next generation of children.

And yes I would love if they released a lot more of their Japan only games over here.

OK, that makes sense. Ttruthfully, I don't care as long as I enjoy the games.

 

[him over there]

and accounting for bullet drop.

I thought CoD used hitscan weapons and therefore had no bullet drop?

 

[KICdude]

To say the least I think we can all agree that Nintendo has and always been for kids. Sure they try to mix it up every now and again with things other than Mario games, but giving a dog their bone is what Nintendo is all about. Also the Wii limitations have not been met. I have played an online FPS shooter on the Wii and its not even a major company. Its a game that looks, plays, and feels great, while being brought down for the kiddies. Sure I'm ranting on about a paint ball game but its good wholesome fun 1 hit out, not a full mag of lead (maybe Lead based paint but that's another story). To give some interest in saying that there are better non-main stream titles on the Wii is a shamming fun fact. Its Cheaper, faster, and right to the point not even black-ops did that. You say that there are no good games for the Wii. Look at the games you don't usually look at, and you might find yourself surprised.

 

[him over there]

To say the least I think we can all agree that Nintendo has and always been for kids. Sure they try to mix it up every now and again with things other than Mario games, but giving a dog their bone is what Nintendo is all about. Also the Wii limitations have not been met. I have played an online FPS shooter on the Wii and its not even a major company. Its a game that looks, plays, and feels great, while being brought down for the kiddies. Sure I'm ranting on about a paint ball game but its good wholesome fun 1 hit out, not a full mag of lead (maybe Lead based paint but that's another story). To give some interest in saying that there are better non-main stream titles on the Wii is a shamming fun fact. Its Cheaper, faster, and right to the point not even black-ops did that. You say that there are no good games for the Wii. Look at the games you don't usually look at, and you might find yourself surprised.

There are a ton of diamonds in the rough that are totally glossed over by people because everything not made by Ninetndo is "shovelware". There are tons of great games that never get a chance because they aren't a-aaa titles and obviously nobody who makes a game for the wii knows anything about games and are there to make a quick buck /sarcasm. One of my favourite wii games is Endless Ocean and I think it's sad that these legitimately good games are swept aside because people generalise all games on the wii.

 

[KICdude]

I totally agree with your stand point. Over-generalization has left the Wii with nothing but a fancy plumber to its name. It almost seems unfair that just because the Wii doesn't get more than 20 titles a month released, publicized, and priced at say $60 that the system sucks. Sure the motion-controls are sketchy, but what can one expect from a system that's main objective is to make games casual, but entertaining.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

You can't tell me shit hasn't changed since I played Ocarina of Time.

We obviously differ in opinion about this, but I think you're ignoring a lot of the older Nintendo games and their weirdness. Ocarina of time had talking owls and demonic drum players and that weird thing in the well with all the hands and that section on the skeletal pirate ship in the spirit temple and a whole level inside a giant fish. And let's not forget the abundance of weirdness in Majora's Mask. Super Mario 64 had penguin racing and the giant talking snowman and all sorts of goofy enemies. Nintendo is doing new things of questionable value, but let's not pretend that all the random stuff they throw in is unprecedented.

If anything you just listed is at all weird, it's not even approaching the scale of the weirdness in the Wii titles. You're missing my point. I am definitely not ignoring talking owls and shit. I think you're ignoring the glaring difference between cutesy fun like every single thing you listed and bizarre mindfucks like the picture I posted. The former is good, the latter is bad.

And really all of that is just distracting from the point that the central gameplay mechanics have really either held steady or improved for Zelda and Mario.

Who was talking about the central gameplay mechanics? If you must, I would say it's one step forward, one step back. Zelda lost all it's atmosphere in Twilight Princess. No point examining it further really. Did anyone give one fuck about anything in that game? I just don't have the heart to try Skyward Sword. Gameplay hasn't improved in any significant way and the controls are even shittier if anyone can believe that. What I can say nice about Twilight Princess is it had some new stuff that was fun. Mounted combat jumps to mind.

As for Mario, I can only speak about Mario: Galaxy. Admittedly, it was kind of like someone polished up Mario 64 with modern flow and trappings, and to that extent I approve. But the artwork was in a contest with the controls to be the most unbearable and running around spheres was unwieldy and tedious. It completely negated the above-mentioned 'flow'. Pacing was terrible. The whole game was extremely easy except for exactly one part. My favorite parts of the game were when it finally let me do some proper platforming. It was almost like I was playing Mario again and I started to have fun.

I'm not saying I like old shit because it's old. I just don't think 'almost as good as an N64 game' is good enough any more.

 

[Grygor]

and accounting for bullet drop.

I thought CoD used hitscan weapons and therefore had no bullet drop?

That's one that I honestly couldn't tell you. I've watched him, but I've never really played the games myself. There probably isn't bullet drop.

Technically, it doesn't really matter either way, because at the close engagement distance typical of modern military shooters, bullet drop is effectively insignificant.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Give me a break. If you're old enough to manipulate a controller, you've long outgrown this

Speak for yourself mate.I'm in my mid 30's and have absolutely no problems with bright,colourful,cute graphics like the images you posted.In fact I would prefer to look at those graphics rather than another "realistic" military shooter any day.

Fair enough, my point is they make games for very young babies where they used to make games for children and it's apparent from their art style. I also think you're establishing a false choice by bringing up shitty looking 'realistic' shooters. There are lots of great looking games that aren't 'realistic' shooters or baby stuff.

 

[Something Amyss]

Nintendo catering to another audience isnt a bad thing (its even good)

To some extent, yes, but it's also kind of a problem.

Indeed, this is sort of the problem the 3DS had at launch

 

[octafish]

I challenge anyone to

#1 Define casual and hardcore gamers
#2 Say how you can make a game for them

The only definition I have gotten is "varying interest in gaming" which means you cannot make a game for a "hardcore audience" thus making the terms void of meaning.

That is soooooo easy.

Hardcore Gamers play Flight Sims that require $1500 accessories and comprehesive checklists before you get off the ground, or online racing sims that require you to get license to compete...everything else is casual.

 

[Darknacht]

I challenge anyone to

#1 Define casual and hardcore gamers
#2 Say how you can make a game for them

The only definition I have gotten is "varying interest in gaming" which means you cannot make a game for a "hardcore audience" thus making the terms void of meaning.

I sure can't define gamers but I could give a shot at defining casual and hardcore games. Core games are the focal point of an experience, it is a dedicated product for gaming whether it's a pass time or event. A casual game is something that requires no prior interest or setup, you can play angry birds in 2 minute bursts on the bus or while you walk, a hardcore game requires sone set up. ...Yeah it doesn't really work but it's the best I can do.

So it's accessibility? How does that make casual bad?

I can get into a game in CS:GO very fast yet it would be universally seen as hardcore.

I always laugh at the 'universal' acceptance of FPS games as hardcore because when I was growing up FPS games where considered 'casual' by everyone I knew, and 'hardcore' gamers played 'real' games like RPGs or strategy games. Hardcore and casual are mostly meaningless terms used to say that your games are better than other peoples. The really funny thing is that I know people who think all video games are 'casual' and 'real' gamers play everything PnP.