Nintendo Too Late To Attract Third-Party Support, Bethesda Says

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Noisy Lurker
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Such a lame, bullshit excuse. It's just another dev/publisher following along with the Wii U has no games so no one buys it so no one makes games for it so that the Wii U has no games circular logic.

The Wii U may not be worth their respect, but it should be at least worth a shitty port or two from their last-gen flagship titles.
 

weirdee

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Apr 11, 2011
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for all of their talking and planning, the other bethesda console games barely pulled their shit together anyway, so I think maybe it's not all nintendo's fault
 

CpT_x_Killsteal

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Johnny Wishbone said:
Let me translate this guy's entire statement:

"Microsoft and Sony paid us millions to cozy up with them. We approached Nintendo, but they didn't want to play the game our way, so we froze them out and ignored them. Period."

All about the Benjamins, guys. That is the ONLY reason these decisions are made.
Uhh, what?

The article stated that MS and Sony went to Bethesda (and maybe Gearbox) and gave them all the details they needed to make the games for their consoles. Nintendo simply did not do that.
Also, the Wii and Wii U are probably too weak to play most of Bethesda's and Gearbox's Titles anyway so.....
 

seditary

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This really reads like 'The other guys sucked our dicks so much we won't do anything now unless we get serviced.'
 

Dragonbums

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MrHide-Patten said:
Nintendo fans, if you don't like what Bethesda has to say then stop giving articles with their opinions hits, especially when it's usually other people who ask them these questions. I'm just glad they're giving out a 'we simply don't give a shit' rather than the whole PR spinning in order not to burn bridges.

Frankly it matters what Bethesda thinks, because Bethesda is a big third party publisher and Nintendo's big sell was; 'we're totally going to have lot's of great third party titles this time dawgs, we swear', and with the little love that the Wii-U is getting then obviously he isn't the only one with this opinion.

Not trying to hate, but they're not giving me reasons to love I can say that much.
Nintendo's statement about having third party support prior to Wii U's launch was not empty at the time. Plenty of devs had the audacity to put their face on camera stating on record that they were going to back the Wii U and promptly ditched them.

Also, in your eagerness to once again label Nintendo fans as crybabies you omit the fact that Bethesda is a company that hasn't made a game for Nintendo since the SNES era. Unless you count that one shovel ware garbage game on the Wii Speed Wheels (or whatever the fuck it was called.)
Thus them making a statement about them not supporting Wii U comes as no surprise nor care because nobody expected them to make a game for Nintendo after not doing such for two decades.

Especially funny when it basically just amounts to "we aren't making games for Nintendo because they don't suck our dicks" yet Sony and Microsoft are rewarded for bending over backwards for them by getting shit quality ports that are far inferior to the quality hardware of the PC. Even then, it took a bunch of mods and coders with nothing better to do to make the game at least decently playable to the fanbase at large.
 

stiffy

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The nintendo fanboy ire on this thread is delicious.

There are only about 4 million Wii Us in existence at this point. Assuming that not all of those owners are going to buy a Bethesda rpg (most have had 3 different console options already to buy them.) They'll sell what, 40,000 copies of a game they have to port to a non stardard control scheme. Sorry idiots, there is no "make nintendo wii u" button on game dev's pc's. It costs a shitload of money and manpower to port a game. More so, Nintendo has acted as if its a privilege to release a game on it console, not consulting with powerful companies on their up upcoming tech specs. Myopic is the word that comes to mind. Isolationist, and business suicide.

"But I love jumping on turtles, collecting coins, and bowling with my grandma." This might be enough to tide most of you over, but you need to buy at least 400,000 more Wii Us EACH for anyone but you to give a shit, ESPECIALLY people who actually know what they are talking about (Pete Hines).
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

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GonzoGamer said:
Andy Chalk said:
"You have to spend an unbelievable amount of time up front doing that," he continued. "If you're going to just sort of decide, 'Well, we're going to make a box and this is how it's going to work and you make games for it,' well, no. No is my answer. I'm going to focus on the other ones that better support what it is we're trying to do."
Isn't that why companies like Valve hated the ps3 for so long? Isn't that why Bethesda games hardly work on the ps3?

I think there's more to it than that. I'm sure it's a big bump in the road but not a complete roadblock.
Sony and MS are both using X86 in the next gen of consoles as well as standardized parts instead of the CELL processor that was in the PS3.

So Sony did in fact learn from their mistakes, at this point Nintendo are still digging deeper.
 

Strazdas

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xaszatm said:
So...remind me again why we should care what Bethseda says about the WiiU? I mean, I know The Elder Scrolls is suppose to be the best WRPGs ever, but they have always been more of a PC series (and company) than a console one. Why should something that defines the PC Western RPG genre matter to the only non-portable console that is trying its best to not be a PC?

As for Nintendo not getting third party support...uh...I know Nintendo isn't the best at third party, but don't they have better relationships with their second party friends? Not to mention, with Platinum games discussing on how much freedom they got making their games, isn't at least interesting enough for some third party groups to get on board?
Elder scrolls sold more copies on consoles than PC for both Skyrim and Oblivion. In fact you can see progress as they mvoed towards more console oriented controls, forcing PC players to use mods to fix the UI. they are very much a console games player. if you were to talk about, say, paradox, then yeah they are mainly PC. but bethesda is very much into console market. and TES is not the only thing they publish.
Most big third parties said no to PeeU already, and while Nintendo tries, it does not seem to attract any. however it must be noted that if any company has fanatic enough followers base to stand on 1st/2nd aprty alone it is Nintendo.

GonzoGamer said:
Andy Chalk said:
"You have to spend an unbelievable amount of time up front doing that," he continued. "If you're going to just sort of decide, 'Well, we're going to make a box and this is how it's going to work and you make games for it,' well, no. No is my answer. I'm going to focus on the other ones that better support what it is we're trying to do."
Isn't that why companies like Valve hated the ps3 for so long? Isn't that why Bethesda games hardly work on the ps3?

I think there's more to it than that. I'm sure it's a big bump in the road but not a complete roadblock.
yeah, and now PS4 does not use this design becuase it realized the problems it caused.
 

MrHide-Patten

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Dragonbums said:
Nintendo's statement about having third party support prior to Wii U's launch was not empty at the time. Plenty of devs had the audacity to put their face on camera stating on record that they were going to back the Wii U and promptly ditched them.
Well obviously somebody fucked up, or else they wouldn't have jumped ship. The onus is on the dev's (one of which was EA, and people act surprised when they did something screwy) and yet partially some of it's on Nintendo's. There is a failure in communication, marketing, or incentive's that isn't drawing them in (besides Platinum).

Dragonbums said:
Also, in your eagerness to once again label Nintendo fans as crybabies you omit the fact that Bethesda is a company that hasn't made a game for Nintendo since the SNES era. Unless you count that one shovel ware garbage game on the Wii Speed Wheels (or whatever the fuck it was called.)
Thus them making a statement about them not supporting Wii U comes as no surprise nor care because nobody expected them to make a game for Nintendo after not doing such for two decades.
I was just merely remarking that somebody would have had to have had approached them about this, potentially somebody who prefers their Nintendo console and can only afford the one console, would've liked to partake in a Skyrim-esc game. It's a niche crowd, and whilst it is inferior to play a Bethesda game on a console (I played Skyrim on the PS3 with all the lag until it was patched) there are people out there.

Dragonbums said:
Especially funny when it basically just amounts to "we aren't making games for Nintendo because they don't suck our dicks" yet Sony and Microsoft are rewarded for bending over backwards for them by getting shit quality ports that are far inferior to the quality hardware of the PC. Even then, it took a bunch of mods and coders with nothing better to do to make the game at least decently playable to the fanbase at large.
Frankly a games console is nothing without games, and if you don't make your machine or business practices accommodating towards developers, the how are they in the right? Why are Bethesda being selfish dicks for putting out their honest opinion on how Microsoft and Sony treat them better, or basically just treat third party publishers better.
People say it time and time again that the only thing worth buying a Nintendo console is the games made by Nintendo.
 

xaszatm

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Okay, first off,
Strazdas said:
I get it, you don't like Nintendo. You know that name calling just makes you look idiotic, though right? Like, I'm sure you're smart and all, but really? I actually like Bethseda and admitted in a later post that Bethseda does have a right for that statement. Is there really a need for such petty throws? ...Sorry, today has been rough, I've had to deal with real-life trolls, attend tedious meetings, and now I'm so annoyed I'm just snippy and not going to bother cutting this from the final draft.

Anyways...

Strazdas said:
xaszatm said:
So...remind me again why we should care what Bethseda says about the WiiU? I mean, I know The Elder Scrolls is suppose to be the best WRPGs ever, but they have always been more of a PC series (and company) than a console one. Why should something that defines the PC Western RPG genre matter to the only non-portable console that is trying its best to not be a PC?

As for Nintendo not getting third party support...uh...I know Nintendo isn't the best at third party, but don't they have better relationships with their second party friends? Not to mention, with Platinum games discussing on how much freedom they got making their games, isn't at least interesting enough for some third party groups to get on board?
Elder scrolls sold more copies on consoles than PC for both Skyrim and Oblivion. In fact you can see progress as they mvoed towards more console oriented controls, forcing PC players to use mods to fix the UI. they are very much a console games player. if you were to talk about, say, paradox, then yeah they are mainly PC. but bethesda is very much into console market. and TES is not the only thing they publish.
Most big third parties said no to PeeU already, and while Nintendo tries, it does not seem to attract any. however it must be noted that if any company has fanatic enough followers base to stand on 1st/2nd aprty alone it is Nintendo.
As I said, after looking into Bethseda's more recent history (Dishonored, Fallout, Rage, etc.), I concurred that Bethseda does have more of a right to comment on the console market. However, I still stand by the fact that Bethseda really doesn't fit in to Nintendo's whole business model. Bethseda is mostly about open worlds and "choices" and the cost of many bugs and glitches. The games aren't bad, but I found them to be pretty buggy (though that just may be my universal dislike of WRPG in general making me more focused on the game's flaws). Nintendo is more focused on having "tight" gameplay and quality controls. Both are great and are capable of making different interesting games, but are incompatible with another.

What did that above statement have anything to do with my response? Well, I would question why 1. Bethseda would be interested in Nintendo in the first place and 2. why it expects Nintendo to bow to its wishes. Now, I know the question was asked in the audience so maybe the representative went with the best thing he could think of but still...

Also, as for the other third parties, I think you are confusing Western Third Parties for every third party. EA screwed them over after the origin scandal, and everyone else in the western world seems gleeful at the idea at Nintendo failing but Platinum, Atlus, and other Japanese companies seem to be getting along great with Nintendo. What with all the exclusives on the 3DS and on the WiiU. Hell, with recent interviews, it seems that Nintendo is starting to make good relationships with multiple third parties with their freedom of control.

EDIT: Just realized that incessant doesn't really match what I was saying. Must remember that google is my friend...
 

stiffy

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From VG chartz, 9-3-13
"Nintendo has sold by far the most games for the Wii U with 5.48 million games sold. This is 60.6 percent of all the games sold for the Wii U. Ubisoft is the only third party publisher to sell more than one million games for the Wii U with 1.08 million games sold. Activision has sold 506,452 games for the Wii U, Capcom 465,035 games, Warner Bros. 430,790, Sega 252,658 games, Electronic Arts 225,993 games, Disney 170,325 games, Namco Bandai 112,523 games, and Tecmo Koei 103,356 games."

If your barrier is 1 million games (thats total from a dev, not a single IP). Does it become clearer why 3rd party devs are skeptical of putting out a product that has been proven not to perform?
 

Strazdas

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xaszatm said:
Okay, first off,
Strazdas said:
I get it, you don't like Nintendo. You know that name calling just makes you look idiotic, though right? Like, I'm sure you're smart and all, but really? I actually like Bethseda and admitted in a later post that Bethseda does have a right for that statement. Is there really a need for such petty throws? ...Sorry, today has been rough, I've had to deal with real-life trolls, attend tedious meetings, and now I'm so annoyed I'm just snippy and not going to bother cutting this from the final draft.
I dont hate nintendo, its the Wii series fanboyism that i dislike. and the WeeU was meant mroe as a joke than name calling or a jab. i mean surely the Wee name has lost any offensive power way back in 2005 or something.

As I said, after looking into Bethseda's more recent history (Dishonored, Fallout, Rage, etc.), I concurred that Bethseda does have more of a right to comment on the console market. However, I still stand by the fact that Bethseda really doesn't fit in to Nintendo's whole business model. Bethseda is mostly about open worlds and "choices" and the cost of many bugs and glitches. The games aren't bad, but I found them to be pretty buggy (though that just may be my universal dislike of WRPG in general making me more focused on the game's flaws). Nintendo is more focused on having "tight" gameplay and quality controls. Both are great and are capable of making different interesting games, but are incompatible with another.
It is true that Bethesda games have been known for being rather buggy. but same can be said about many open world open ended "choices" games. that is simply because it is much easeir to program and playtest a linear game than one where you have your NPCs to account for 100 choices thep layer made in the other side of the map. IT is true that Nintendos "Style" lately seems to be different than Bethesdas, but we have seen companies pull a completely different style before. I wouldnt put it past Bethesda to release a game for ninteod that fits nintendo style. especially since we are talking about a giant that releases a lot of games and even makes quite a few in-house.

What did that above statement have anything to do with my response? Well, I would question why 1. Bethseda would be interested in Nintendo in the first place and 2. why it expects Nintendo to bow to its wishes. Now, I know the question was asked in the audience so maybe the representative went with the best thing he could think of but still...
Everyone (well maybe excelt Razer CEO [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125719-Razer-CEO-No-PS3-Accessories-Because-I-Barely-Play-Mine]) is interested in expanding its market. Its a sign of a healthy company.
It does not expect nintendo to bow to its wishes. what this article said, is it expects nintedo to tell them how their console works and how one cna program for it. you know, support its developers.
And yes, random questions to people who are not responsible for things they comment on without prior preparation may cause a lot fo "random" reasoning.

Also, as for the other third parties, I think you are confusing Western Third Parties for every third party. EA screwed them over after the origin scandal, and everyone else in the western world seems gleeful at the idea at Nintendo failing but Platinum, Atlus, and other Japanese companies seem to be getting along great with Nintendo. What with all the exclusives on the 3DS and on the WiiU. Hell, with recent interviews, it seems that Nintendo is starting to make good relationships with multiple third parties with their freedom of control.
I did say "most big parties". and most does not meant all after all. and also the word big implies the big players in gaming market. and as good as Platinum or Atlus is, they arent the big players. at least not yet. If nintendo starts working with thier third parties and it results in a sucess - great. but so far its been locals only.
 

The_Echo

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xaszatm said:
So...remind me again why we should care what Bethseda says about the WiiU?
It's not what he said about the Wii U, it's about what he said concerning Nintendo's attitude when it comes to developing a console.

Sony and Microsoft go to developers and work with them to create a console they want to develop for. Nintendo seems to just create whatever they want and trust that their reputation will be enough to encourage third-party support. In the simplest way possible, this is how it went according to Hines:

Sony & MS: "What kind of box would you like?"

Nintendo: "This is our box. This is the box we want your games on. It's a great box, we assure you."
 

Olas

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Well shit, Nintendo's screwed now. They were betting it all on Bethesda. Without Bethesda's support I really don't see how Nintendo will survive. It's a shame too, because I bought my Wii U hoping to play lots of great Bethesda games on it.

All joking aside, Bethesda shouldn't make games for Nintendo, they shouldn't make games for consoles period. Their games are borderline broken when played vanilla.
 

Dragonbums

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MrHide-Patten said:
Well obviously somebody fucked up, or else they wouldn't have jumped ship. The onus is on the dev's (one of which was EA, and people act surprised when they did something screwy) and yet partially some of it's on Nintendo's. There is a failure in communication, marketing, or incentive's that isn't drawing them in (besides Platinum).
I highly doubt there was sudden fuck up in what the console was about 2 months before the thing hit shelves. Those devs knew exactly what the Wii U was, what it did, and how much of it it did. Enough so that devs sat in front of cameras talking about all the things the Wii U can do.
EA bailed because Nintendo refused to implement their DRM scheme Origin into their online play nothing more to it then that.
All the other devs bailed right before launch because they heard the HD twins were coming soon.

And for the record, after Bayonetta 2, Platinum games came to Nintendo on their own accord because Sony, Microsoft, and all the other big publishers ditched them for dude bro titles that make all of the money, with zero of the originality.
Just like Sega, they were increasingly having nowhere else to go and running out of money fast.

I was just merely remarking that somebody would have had to have had approached them about this, potentially somebody who prefers their Nintendo console and can only afford the one console, would've liked to partake in a Skyrim-esc game. It's a niche crowd, and whilst it is inferior to play a Bethesda game on a console (I played Skyrim on the PS3 with all the lag until it was patched) there are people out there.
That is a very huge, and very inaccurate assumption. I only own Nintendo consoles and yet the only place I play Elder Scrolls games is on my computer. Because they are buggy pieces of garbage on consoles.
It is more reasonable to assume that the person who asked this question is one that is aware that at this point the Wii U is more than capable of handling Bethesda's current titles. If not the newer ones, than certainly the older ones and inquired why they still don't make games for their systems.


Frankly a games console is nothing without games, and if you don't make your machine or business practices accommodating towards developers, the how are they in the right? Why are Bethesda being selfish dicks for putting out their honest opinion on how Microsoft and Sony treat them better, or basically just treat third party publishers better.
People say it time and time again that the only thing worth buying a Nintendo console is the games made by Nintendo.
The only accommodations Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo should be doing when making their consoles is making sure the hardware and specs are of good quality. That's it. There is no giant hurdle for developing anything on the Wii U. I don't understand how so many indie devs with 10 people in it have no fucking problem making ports of their games to the Wii U, yet some multi million dollar company with a staff of 300 whine out the ass about putting a sub menu on a controller.
That's a pretty shitty relationship to have with third party developers. Look at what it cost the Xbox One. All those features everyone hated was more or less a direct result of all the third party devs crying about how piracy is killing their sales and how they want more control over their games.
Sony shouldn't have to bend their backs backwards to make consoles to accommodate to their games. It's not like Bethesda did a stellar job anyway with the mess of a port those console games were anyway.
Microsoft and Sony aren't treating them better. Microsoft and Sony are basically babying a spoiled brat that doesn't even give half the effort in return for their overt kindness, and is throwing a temper tantrum because Nintendo has a backbone and wasn't going to pay (excuse me accommodate) the company so they can make games on their system.
Their words will have weight to me, the day they decided to put a modicum of effort into making a polished game port for the two companies that were "oh so nice to them."
 

Ishal

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Dragonbums said:
Especially funny when it basically just amounts to "we aren't making games for Nintendo because they don't suck our dicks" yet Sony and Microsoft are rewarded for bending over backwards for them by getting shit quality ports that are far inferior to the quality hardware of the PC. Even then, it took a bunch of mods and coders with nothing better to do to make the game at least decently playable to the fanbase at large.
I don't think Nintendo fans are crybabies. But Nintendo fans, by virtue of the fact that they are Nintendo fans, must be console fanboys/fangirls. This is because as was stated earlier, Nintendo consoles best sellers are their own games. You can tell me about all the awesome third party games on their systems all you want, and thats fine, but they don't sell nearly enough to come anywhere near Nintendo's main titles. The W101 is proof of this. The WiiU will recover with the one-two punch of Mario and Zelda. But what is the takeaway there? That Nintendo basically makes Mario/Zelda machines? I think that is a reasonable conclusion for some gamers.

But, looking at it from Nintendo's standpoint, why would they touch Bethesda? You stated why they wouldn't, it doesn't make sense for them to do that. But that leaves a gamer like me hanging out to dry. I have a wide palette in terms of what I play, and if I don't want another Mario game, or don't like Zelda, what am I supposed to do? By the by, its not that I don't like any Nintendo games. Metroid and Star Fox are some of my faves, but we aren't getting those, we're getting more Mario and Zelda.

You can talk quality, and its true that Bethesda derped quite a bit. But there is a reason Skyrim won game of the year. There is a reason it was so popular. I want to play the experience that Skyrim has to offer. Nintendo won't put a game like that on their consoles, so I look elsewhere. Simple as. But Nintendo has its priorities, and clearly I'm not the type of gamer they want to cater to. As long as they continue to do well, they don't need to care what I think.
 

Dragonbums

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Ishal said:
Dragonbums said:
Especially funny when it basically just amounts to "we aren't making games for Nintendo because they don't suck our dicks" yet Sony and Microsoft are rewarded for bending over backwards for them by getting shit quality ports that are far inferior to the quality hardware of the PC. Even then, it took a bunch of mods and coders with nothing better to do to make the game at least decently playable to the fanbase at large.
I don't think Nintendo fans are crybabies. But Nintendo fans, by virtue of the fact that they are Nintendo fans, must be console fanboys/fangirls. This is because as was stated earlier, Nintendo consoles best sellers are their own games. You can tell me about all the awesome third party games on their systems all you want, and thats fine, but they don't sell nearly enough to come anywhere near Nintendo's main titles. The W101 is proof of this. The WiiU will recover with the one-two punch of Mario and Zelda. But what is the takeaway there? That Nintendo basically makes Mario/Zelda machines? I think that is a reasonable conclusion for some gamers.

But, looking at it from Nintendo's standpoint, why would they touch Bethesda? You stated why they wouldn't, it doesn't make sense for them to do that. But that leaves a gamer like me hanging out to dry. I have a wide palette in terms of what I play, and if I don't want another Mario game, or don't like Zelda, what am I supposed to do? By the by, its not that I don't like any Nintendo games. Metroid and Star Fox are some of my faves, but we aren't getting those, we're getting more Mario and Zelda.

You can talk quality, and its true that Bethesda derped quite a bit. But there is a reason Skyrim won game of the year. There is a reason it was so popular. I want to play the experience that Skyrim has to offer. Nintendo won't put a game like that on their consoles, so I look elsewhere. Simple as. But Nintendo has its priorities, and clearly I'm not the type of gamer they want to cater to. As long as they continue to do well, they don't need to care what I think.
To be frank, you are honestly better off playing any of Bethesda's games on the PC anyway.
I'm being serious. (and even then they rely on the community to fix up their buggy games.)
I didn't pay $60.00 to see Saber Tooths fling off into the air.
I would like for an Elder Scrolls game to come to a console. Yet when I played the Xbox version at my friends house, it was a complete fucking joke.
That's what is pissing me off about Bethesda right now.
They are conducting this abusive relationship where Sony and Microsoft basically have to lick the grime off their boots to put games on their consoles (and what mighty sales the make from them.) and yet they can't even be assed to make a decent game for them. Yet alone one that isn't on par with shovel ware in quality.
 

Zeckt

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Johnny Wishbone said:
Let me translate this guy's entire statement:

"Microsoft and Sony paid us millions to cozy up with them. We approached Nintendo, but they didn't want to play the game our way, so we froze them out and ignored them. Period."

All about the Benjamins, guys. That is the ONLY reason these decisions are made.
I think the real reason is that the wii u is simply way too far different then the pc, ps4 and xbone as to not be worth the time and money to make games for it. I don't know what your hinting at with the bribe thing, but the proof is right there on the wii u store shelves at gamestop. It's not bethesda's fault for merely stating the obvious.
 

Dragonbums

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Zeckt said:
Johnny Wishbone said:
Let me translate this guy's entire statement:

"Microsoft and Sony paid us millions to cozy up with them. We approached Nintendo, but they didn't want to play the game our way, so we froze them out and ignored them. Period."

All about the Benjamins, guys. That is the ONLY reason these decisions are made.
I think the real reason is that the wii u is simply way too far different then the pc, ps4 and xbone as to not be worth the time and money to make games for it. I don't know what your hinting at with the bribe thing, but the proof is right there on the wii u store shelves at gamestop. It's not bethesda's fault for merely stating the obvious.
So was the PS2 and PS3 and that didn't stop devs in the slightest.