Nintendo Too Late To Attract Third-Party Support, Bethesda Says

[Lunar Templar]

so .... a company that is best known for (buggy) PC games and hasn't released a game for a Nintendo system that I ever recall mattering, is saying they aren't going to make a game for a Nintendo system.

and WiiU owners ever where went "Yeah? and? We care why?"

where as I'm more "nothing of value lost", sides every one knows the TES games are better on PC anyway, if for no other reason then the Mod community is there to fix Bethesda's half assed QA.

 

[Roxas1359]

Mod community is there to fix Bethesda's half assed QA.

Wait wait wait, now hold on a second.
Bethesda has a QA team?!? When'd this happen? I've never heard of them having one before, because surely if they did then their games wouldn't be so buggy. XD

 

[Lunar Templar]

Mod community is there to fix Bethesda's half assed QA.

Wait wait wait, now hold on a second.
Bethesda has a QA team?!? When'd this happen? I've never heard of them having one before, because surely if they did then their games wouldn't be so buggy. XD

well, I ASSUME, they have A guy working on it, I mean the games kind work at launch, well >.> work well enough for the people that actually know how to fix bugs to do something with it.

 

[Roxas1359]

Mod community is there to fix Bethesda's half assed QA.

Wait wait wait, now hold on a second.
Bethesda has a QA team?!? When'd this happen? I've never heard of them having one before, because surely if they did then their games wouldn't be so buggy. XD

well, I ASSUME, they have A guy working on it, I mean the games kind work at launch, well >.> work well enough for the people that actually know how to fix bugs to do something with it.

I think it was easier for New Vegas, Fallout 3, and Oblivion mainly because they were using the Gamebyro Engine and that thing is the easiest to create mods and fix bugs with that's for sure. Especially in the case of New Vegas since it still has some of the game id codes in it's system for Fallout 3 stuff. XD

Also, I do know that Morrowind uses the Gamebyro engine as well and that was basically a testing ground for people to get used to it I think.

 

[Dragonbums]

Another reason not to buy a Wii U I suppose. Unless Nintendo pulls out something better then their first-party titles they aren't getting my buy.

Bethesda hasn't made a game for Nintendo for nearly two decades.
Unless, of course, you count their shovelware game on the Wii WheelSpin.

 

[Dragonbums]

How many 360s were sold in the first year? Only about 5 million, according to every figure I can find.

"only" 5 million in a year is almost TRIPLE what the Wii U is selling on monthly basis. If Nintendo TRIPLED their sales, every dev in the game would jump up and beg Nintendo to make a game on the Wii U.

As I said in my first post, each of you abused Nintendo spouses needs to buy 30,000 of your friends a WiiU for xmas this year, or it'll only be Nintendo made games (which is what you want anyway.) Stop whinging at Pete Hines.

Yeah, but that still isn't stellar numbers and I believe that is what the 3DS was selling in it's first year of launch and that was still low enough for devs to justify not making games for it.

On top of that, the Vita is selling just as bad and many devs have no inhibitions about making games on the machine.

I think what jeffers is trying to say is that all consoles have poor launches in the first year. However Bethesda, for all their harking on Nintendo for this, had no problems porting (and may I say it was a shitty port.) their games to a system that in it's first year, only outsold the Wii U by 2 million units.
Both are pretty shitty sales.
And considering how they are supporting the Xbox One- which is FINE but is proving to have the most abysmal launch of them all, as opposed to the Wii U simply because they weren't "in" on it is kind of full of shit on the devs part....and it's not like they put effort into the very consoles that bring them the bulk of the money.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Bethesda hasn't made a game for Nintendo for nearly two decades.
Unless, of course, you count their shovelware game on the Wii WheelSpin.

So whether Bethesda supports Nintendo or not, the Wii U still has nothing I actually want to play.

Nice to know.

 

[Dragonbums]

Bethesda hasn't made a game for Nintendo for nearly two decades.
Unless, of course, you count their shovelware game on the Wii WheelSpin.

So whether Bethesda supports Nintendo or not, the Wii U still has nothing I actually want to play.

Nice to know.

If it's not interesting fine. Your money.

However I wouldn't say a company that never bothered to make anything on a Nintendo console saying that they aren't going to make anything on the new Nintendo console a real strike against Nintendo.

It's just wholly irrelevant on their part.

 

[stiffy]

Yeah, but that still isn't stellar numbers and I believe that is what the 3DS was selling in it's first year of launch and that was still low enough for devs to justify not making games for it.

On top of that, the Vita is selling just as bad and many devs have no inhibitions about making games on the machine.

I think what jeffers is trying to say is that all consoles have poor launches in the first year. However Bethesda, for all their harking on Nintendo for this, had no problems porting (and may I say it was a shitty port.) their games to a system that in it's first year, only outsold the Wii U by 2 million units.
Both are pretty shitty sales.
And considering how they are supporting the Xbox One- which is FINE but is proving to have the most abysmal launch of them all, as opposed to the Wii U simply because they weren't "in" on it is kind of full of shit on the devs part....and it's not like they put effort into the very consoles that bring them the bulk of the money.

I honestly have a hard time following what you are trying to say. A lot of it is emotion and irrational. "the vita sales, 3ds sales....xbox one's 'launch'(none will be sold for 3 months), 'harking' on nintendo' "full of shit devs".

Oblivion was made for 360(with COOPERATION from MS), then ported to pc & ps. 2m unites sold is a BIG deal. it would mean $600,000,000 for Nintendo (enough to make devs take notice of such a drastic sales increase).

None of this matters. I simply don't CARE like you do. Do you realize, none of these BUSINESS' give a shit how you FEEL about them. They just want your money (period). Not enough people are buying the WiiU to make it solid investment for other companies to make money too. I put up some sales figures (from people far more intelligent than I) to illustrate Mr Hines' point.

Please read this and try to understand what the person is saying. If you are a nintendo fanboy, you will feel confused and awkward, it is the sound of reason breaking thru your fingers in your ears screaming "NANANANANANANANANANA" in denial.

"The Death Of Nintendo Has Been Greatly Under-Exaggerated"
http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/04/nintendont/

 

[Dragonbums]

\
I honestly have a hard time following what you are trying to say. A lot of it is emotion and irrational. "the vita sales, 3ds sales....xbox one's 'launch'(none will be sold for 3 months), 'harking' on nintendo' "full of shit devs".

Wat?

Oblivion was made for 360(with COOPERATION from MS), then ported to pc & ps. 2m unites sold is a BIG deal. it would mean $600,000,000 for Nintendo (enough to make devs take notice of such a drastic sales increase).

Yes. I'm fairly certain bribery and money handling is a very good sign of co operation. And they did SUCH a good job making console ports to those systems that were so cooperative of them.
Give me a break.
They also "co operated" with Sony on the PS3, and that was the most broken game to ever be released this gen. It probably even rivaled Aliens: Colonial Marines.

None of this matters. I simply don't CARE like you do.

Not a single Nintendo fan cares about Nintendo not having Bethesda game. Nobody. Not even me. If I want their games, I get them on PC because at least there to put in a little bit more effort into making a less slop of a game.

Not enough people are buying the WiiU to make it solid investment for other companies to make money too. I put up some sales figures (from people far more intelligent than I) to illustrate Mr Hines' point.

And my point (which you apparently failed to understand.) was that the Xbox 360 sold about just as bad as the Wii U is right now and they still had no issues porting the game over to the console.
But I guess "collaboration" overrides that point.

Please read this and try to understand what the person is saying. If you are a nintendo fanboy, you will feel confused and awkward, it is the sound of reason breaking thru your fingers in your ears screaming "NANANANANANANANANANA" in denial.

To be quite frank, you are the one that is acting unreasonable right now.
You refused to understand anything I said, and dismissed my entire comment on the basis that I'm a Nintendo fan that is somehow too stupid to realize bullshit when I see it.

"The Death Of Nintendo Has Been Greatly Under-Exaggerated"
http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/04/nintendont/

The "Death of Nintendo" has been an ongoing thing since 1999. It is simply hilarious that people are still twiddling their thumbs for this to happen.

I love it how you simply ignore the fact that Sony and Microsoft are more closer to failing in the hardware department than Nintendo.

Sony just recently had to sell both their US headquarters to make a profit http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/18/sony-sells-us-headquarters-for-1-1-billion/ due to the fact that the initial failure of the PS3 cost them around 8 billion dollars. http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/07/xbox-360-and-ps3-losses-total-8-billion-ex-sony-employee-paints-grim-future/

In contrast, Nintendo only lost around 300 million on the Wii U http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-08-07-nintendo-still-selling-wii-u-at-a-loss , and is being easily recouped by 3DS software and hardware sales.

Microsoft has been posting losses on the Xbox chain since it's inception. Even when the console out beat the Gamecube it still posted a massive loss. They only now recently started making a profit on the 360, and Xbone is looking to be a colossal failure. http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-xbox-division-has-lost-nearly-3-billion-in-10-years

 

[stiffy]

Lets just step off the ledge for a second here. I never said you were "stupid" at all. I said you were in denial of the facts, to the point where rational dialog on the subject is no longer possible. I understand the points you are trying to make, but your logic is faulty, you are bringing in examples that have no bearing on the facts at hand - "the wii u is selling poorly". You can try to tap dance around it but its true. It doesn't matter what happened 8 years ago. I'm talking RIGHT NOW.

ie..."certain bribery and money handling"-libelous, "the most broken game to ever be released this gen. Aliens: Colonial Marines"."the Xbox 360 sold about just as bad as the Wii U" Again 2 million units IS a big deal. "people are still twiddling their thumbs for this to happen" you are using this wrong. You mean 'biding their time', or something (i think?). "you simply ignore the fact that Sony and Microsoft are more closer to failing in the hardware department than Nintendo". "Sony just recently had to sell both their US headquarters" You realize SONY(unlike nintendo) makes other stuff too, not just games/toys. They've made some bad choices too (vita) How do you rationalize Nintendo's failure with SONY sales figures. It is an illogical comparison that has no bearing on the facts. "Nintendo ONLY lost around 300 million" You seem to think than hundred of millions of dollars don't matter, it does. "easily recouped by 3DS software and hardware sales" Good for the 3ds (or ds or 2ds or 1ds etc....) This has NO bearing on wii u sales. Do you think they'd still be selling the gamecube today and say, "It's not making us any money at all, but thank god the Wii is still picking up the slack!" They dropped the cube the second a more profitable commodity came around. "Microsoft has been posting losses on the Xbox," Again, what the hell does have to do with WII U sales? You are trying to rationalize the failures of one company with an entirely separate entity that have no bearing on each other (especially in the current market).

Honestly, I have NOTHING against you. If my attacks seem personal, I apologize, seriously. I just cant wrap my head around the mindless defense of a faltering company. I have no emotional allegiance to Nintendo. It makes me think your arguments are not based on fact, rather, an emotional attachment to a product you enjoy. That's fine, I respect that. I like Bethesda as a company, Nintendo too,but I can still acknowledge that Bethesda screwed "Prey 2" and see it for what it is... a questionable business decision.

 

[stiffy]

\

"The Death Of Nintendo Has Been Greatly Under-Exaggerated"
http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/04/nintendont/

Did you READ the article, or just link to it? I would honestly like to hear your opinion on what the guy has to say. He explains his points far better than I could.

I read your articles. Only 1 of the 4 even mentions the Wii U sales, which it mentions are selling at a loss for the company. (5.6 millions units lower that their 2013 internal predictions.) These would be better served on a thread about 360 and ps3 sales.

 

[Dragonbums]

I appreciate you making this comment without actually replying to me in the hopes that I would not see it, and this statement can go unattested.

I said you were in denial of the facts, to the point where rational dialog on the subject is no longer possible.

You sir are the one losing rational dialogue and facts. Your entire argument basically hinges on the "I'm right, your wrong" fallacy, and anyone that so much as goes against that you label as an irrational Nintendo fan who doesn't want to "open their eyes to the facts.

you are bringing in examples that have no bearing on the facts at hand - "the wii u is selling poorly". You can try to tap dance around it but its true. It doesn't matter what happened 8 years ago. I'm talking RIGHT NOW.

And the intial argument is that when the Xbox 360 originally came out, they were doing just as poorly as the Wii U today. Yet that did not stop Bethesda from making a port of Oblivion for the console. Nor did it stop them from doing the same for the PS3 a year later.
What I posted has a lot of bearing to the conversation at hand. You accuse me of tap dancing around the issue. However clearly it is you that is doing this.

Again 2 million units IS a big deal.

3 million sales for the Wii U in first year, 5 million sales for the first year for Xbox 360. Bottom line is that both of those are garbage sales.

"people are still twiddling their thumbs for this to happen" you are using this wrong. You mean 'biding their time', or something (i think?).

Both phrases mean the exact same thing, and nit picking my choice of metaphor is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

You realize SONY(unlike nintendo) makes other stuff too, not just games/toys.

When was the last time you have seen a Sony product on shelves? Their other hardware divisions have increasingly gone to shit. If a company has to sell both of their US headquarters to make a profit, then that is a very sure sign that not only is their other hardware division doing bad, but it clearly wasn't enough to reciprocate the costs of an $8billion dollar loss on the PS3.

They've made some bad choices too (vita) How do you rationalize Nintendo's failure with SONY sales figures.

Because you are under the assumption that Nintendo is going to fall dead in the near future due to the poor sales of one console when Sony very damn near shut down because of a loss so big that it literally ate up the profits it made from the PS1 and PS2 era and it is only now that they are making a profit again.

It is an illogical comparison that has no bearing on the facts.

So official statistical figures and reports from news financing sites aren't facts?

Who's dancing around the issue again?

"Nintendo ONLY lost around 300 million" You seem to think than hundred of millions of dollars don't matter, it does. "easily recouped by 3DS software and hardware sales" Good for the 3ds (or ds or 2ds or 1ds etc....) This has NO bearing on wii u sales.

It has no bearing on Wii U sales, but it does have a lot of bearing on how hard the company is hit by poor Wii U sales.

Do you think they'd still be selling the gamecube today and say, "It's not making us any money at all, but thank god the Wii is still picking up the slack!"

This has got to be the most non nonsensical thing I have ever read. The Wii is a successor to the Gamecube they did not come out in the same generation like the 3DS and the Wii. A more valid argument would be the success of the Gameboy/Nintendo DS line has mitigated the losses of the Gamecube. Unfortunately for that argument, despite the Gamecube's low sales, they did not actually lose any money because the console was made pretty cheap. Just like the Xbox 360 and the PS3 and successor of their previous consoles. With the exception of the PS2, both Microsoft and Nintendo dropped

They dropped the cube the second a more profitable commodity came around.

They dropped the Gamecube because they have developed a more powerful system that can do more than the Gamecube ever could. Just like how Microsoft and Sony developed theirs to do more with their games.

"Microsoft has been posting losses on the Xbox," Again, what the hell does have to do with WII U sales?

That was in direct response to the link "Death of Nintendo" don't try to shift the purpose here.

You are trying to rationalize the failures of one company with an entirely separate entity that have no bearing on each other (especially in the current market).

You made claims that Nitnendo is going to be the first to fail. I responded by showing you that both Microsoft and Sony are on a faster track to failing than Nintendo. Especially considering where there was recently an article right here on the Escapist that talked about how with the switch of a new CEO- Microsoft may finally shut down the Xbox division and focus on hardware as a way to trim the fat and rebalance the company to what it does best making quality software.

I just cant wrap my head around the mindless defense of a faltering company. I have no emotional allegiance to Nintendo. It makes me think your arguments are not based on fact, rather, an emotional attachment to a product you enjoy.

Let me correct that: You can't wrap your head around the fact that not only you have been proven wrong in your claims about Nintendo, but you lost to someone who actually had things to back it up.

Clearly it is you that has the emotional bias. I have gone out of my way to give you links to back up my own claims and you brush all of them off by deeming them somehow irrelevant to the conversation or ignore them completely.

 

[Dragonbums]

\

"The Death Of Nintendo Has Been Greatly Under-Exaggerated"
http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/04/nintendont/

Did you READ the article, or just link to it? I would honestly like to hear your opinion on what the guy has to say. He explains his points far better than I could.

I read your articles. Only 1 of the 4 even mentions the Wii U sales, which it mentions are selling at a loss for the company. (5.6 millions units lower that their 2013 internal predictions.) These would be better served on a thread about 360 and ps3 sales.

Cherry picking again? Tsk. Tsk.

I will humor you by quoting directly from the article and giving me opinion on each point he makes.

"the Wii U is a dud. It?s actually much worse than a dud. As of right now, it?s a colossal failure."

The same thing was said about the 3DS not too long ago. Look where it is now. Either this man has short term memory, or he is leaving that fact out to make his point stronger.

But they won?t. They?ll wait. And wait. And wait. They?ll cite history as their guide that their consoles can take a while to become profitable. But they?ll be wrong this time.

How does he know they will be wrong this time? Is he a timelord? They aren't waiting on the Wii U, they are now releasing game after game, all the way up to 2014.

Meanwhile, the Nintendo 2DS will come out and will probably sell quite well at first thanks to a well-timed Pokemon release. But all the 2DS really is is an admission that the 3DS is ultimately a failure.

?But! But! But! Profitable!? Sure, a few years after release. Nintendo isn?t releasing the 2DS just for the hell of it. They realize the metrics that really matter: that the 3DS is tracking roughly 20 percent behind its predecessor in terms of sales

The 2DS as Reggie has stated was specifically for people who are stereo blind, children under the age of 7, and those who can't afford to put down over $200.00 on a hardware system, or will not put down that kind of money for a feature they don't care for.
The 3DS has currently sold 32 million units.
Not only that, his analogy is poor and downright deceitful to falsely strengthen his point.
The DS, DSlite, and DSi family span 8 years in longevity. The 3DS came out two years ago. This man so far is looking like a joke.

But! Long-term thinking!? The concept of ?long-term thinking? is what people always cite when something is failing right now. The issue here is that, again, Nintendo doesn?t actually have a lot of time to fix what ails them.

This generation has witnessed the largest amount of studios being shut down due to short term "quick fixes"
If the only thing ailing Nintendo right now is poor Wii U sales- something that ails every company that release a new console, then I think Nintendo is doing solid.


- They have failed to make great products for a number of years now.
- The market is rapidly changing around them.


All of these are completely subjective, and what makes him think that a rapidly changing market isn't going to affect Sony or Microsoft?

Nintendo no longer is just competing with the others in their direct space ? meaning gaming consoles and handhelds ? meaning Sony and Microsoft. They are competing with every single smartphone and tablet currently on the market.

Still hasn't stopped the 3DS from selling like hot cakes has it? This is hilarious.

They do not. Apple and all the various Android OEMs release new hardware every single year ? if not more often

Are you kidding me? That is not a sure fire way to success. This very business model is going to kill Apple in the end. when you release a product up to $300.00 a year as the next installment, people are going to refuse to keep up with it and not buy their products. In fact, Apple is on the verge of seriously competing with Samsung. The company they screwed over time and time again in the smartphone business.
An example of a videogame that has done this is Guitar Hero. Where is Guitar Hero right now? Dead in the water because nobody could keep up with their releases.

Now the DS, the 3DS, and the 2DS are just another device a kid has to carry around (and that parents have to buy). Why do that when your smartphone plays games?

The handheld division has always been for kids.
Also do smartphones have Pokemon?
do they have Mario? Donkey Kong? Fire Emblem? Animal Crossing? Assasins Creed?, Rayman? Call of Duty?
Come on man. Try better than that.

But unless those characters are constantly updated in tales on relevant consoles, they will fade. It?s sad, but true. ?What?s a Nintendo??

I don't think you understand how popular Mario is for kids. They aren't fading away from the minds of anyone any time soon.

That?s why we keep hearing the calls for Nintendo to make games for iOS.

From the same people who created the "Nintendo is DOOMED" fiasco.

The Wii U is not thinking-outside-the-box. It?s trying to shove their IP into a box. It seems like they took one look at the touch-based landscape and figured they had to make a move.

Considering how they were the ones that started the "touch" movement with the Nintendo DS line all those years ago, this man is talking nothing but bullshit.

So explain to me- how are Sony and Microsoft thinking outside the box if the Wii U is unoriginal garbage?


Nintendo needs to get back to the NES and SNES era. Hell, even N64 would do

Impossible. They actually have competition now as opposed to being a monopoly king all those years ago.

So how does Nintendo compete in that world? I wish I knew.

You know a journalist is bad when they say all these negative things about a specific company/problem/politic, yet they cannot for the life of them actually think up a solution themselves. If he is so knowledgeable about the "death of Nintendo" then surely he should have solutions as well.

current tablet/smartphone manufacturer and make the best ? and I do mean the best ? hardware for gaming. Speed. Buttons. Responsiveness. Definition. Clarity. Etc.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh God is he serious!? I'll admit that tablets and smartphones have gotten better over the year. But the best hardware? The best buttons?(where the fuck are buttons on a tablet anyway), the best speed?
Sorry pal, but that crown belongs to the PC. What world are you living in?

I still believe Nintendo could thrive as a game studio allowed to run independently under a larger parent

That has never happened before in the history of ever. Second most dumbest sentence I read in this article.

think: Pixar inside of Disney

And look how hot their movies are doing right now.

If Apple wants software to move hardware, it?s hard to imagine a better buy. And it would allow them to use a nice chunk of their overseas cash hoard to boot!

Apple doesn't need hardware to move software because people buy Apple products specifically for the asthetic design of their hardware, and the easiness and appeal of their software. Plus, they have Adobe to push units for them anyway.
And is he familiar with laws overseas.
The Japanese are very conservative. They will never allow a foreign company to buy out a Japanese company. Especially one with as much prominence as Nintendo.

I cannot believe I wasted my time reading such a ridiculous article.

 

[stiffy]

I appreciate you making this comment without actually replying to me in the hopes that I would not see it, and this statement can go unattested.

1st off, sorry to rile you up, man (or woman). I didn't get the quote code right above, so that why I didn't directly quote you 2 posts ago. I was not trying to "in the hopes that I would not see it' (paranoia). I quoted you with " " quotes, and I deleted the extra stuff by accident. I'm not out to 'win' an argument with you.

I have no horse in this race. I'm not saying nintendo is going to close tomorrow and sell to disney. I'm saying, the Wii U is selling shitty. Thats why game 3rd party devs dont want to make games for it. Those is the facts, as they say. Bring up all the old figures you want from last generation. The Wii U sells shitty NOW. My point, end of story. Thats it. No more. Enough.

You can assume all you want about my opinion, but you dont know it, or have asked for it. I have tried to show the REALITY of the sales figures that pertain to WII U sales. Not an opinion about who's a good dev, or what ports are the best, or who Sony sells a building to in NYC, or what the 360 sold 8 years ago. Its all irrelevant to Bethesda deciding not putting out games on the WiiU.

This is getting pretty ugly, please calm down. In an effort to quell the drama....you win. Nintendo 4 EVER. Shigero Myamoto is a my dad. The Wii U will come back to sell 9mil units be mar2014. Zelda #37, and Mario #213 are the best games I've ever played-Gotta catch 'em all. I agree with you, can we be myspace friends now?

 

[Dragonbums]

I appreciate you making this comment without actually replying to me in the hopes that I would not see it, and this statement can go unattested.

1st off, sorry to rile you up, man (or woman). I didn't get the quote code right above, so that why I didn't directly quote you 2 posts ago. I was not trying to "in the hopes that I would not see it' (paranoia). I quoted you with " " quotes, and I deleted the extra stuff by accident. I'm not out to 'win' an argument with you.

I have no horse in this race. I'm not saying nintendo is going to close tomorrow and sell to disney. I'm saying, the Wii U is selling shitty. Thats why game 3rd party devs dont want to make games for it. Those is the facts, as they say. Bring up all the old figures you want from last generation. The Wii U sells shitty NOW. My point, end of story. Thats it. No more. Enough.

You can assume all you want about my opinion, but you dont know it, or have asked for it. I have tried to show the REALITY of the sales figures that pertain to WII U sales. Not an opinion about who's a good dev, or what ports are the best, or who Sony sells a building to in NYC, or what the 360 sold 8 years ago. Its all irrelevant to Bethesda deciding not putting out games on the WiiU.

This is getting pretty ugly, please calm down. In an effort to quell the drama....you win. Nintendo 4 EVER. Shigero Myamoto is a my dad. The Wii U will come back to sell 9mil units be mar2014. Zelda #37, and Mario #213 are the best games I've ever played-Gotta catch 'em all. I agree with you, can we be myspace friends now?

Did I deny Wii U sales were bad? No.

You did however state your opinion is right and everyone else is wrong.
So yes, I am very done with this conversation.

 

[stiffy]

Did I deny Wii U sales were bad? No.

You did however state your opinion is right and everyone else is wrong.
So yes, I am very done with this conversation.

Lets certainly hope so. As am I.

Look back at this thread critically. You've gone on the attack to anyone who's said something even SLIGHTLY critical of Nintendo. Nintendo would be proud of your defense, but realistically, they would rather have more of your money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5FfJ89rGPc