No, it isn't OK.

[Berethond]

I clarified this statement. There is a difference, though. Being religious in itself is not an issue. Being a bigot is an issue.

Yeah, I saw right after I posted.

Also, this thread reminds me of a quote by F.A. Hayek, "The ultimate decision about what is accepted as right and wrong will be made not by individual human wisdom but by the disappearance of the groups that have adhered to the "wrong" beliefs."

Bottom line is, all we can do is try and teach our children (if we have any) the right way.

 

[101flyboy]

It was "I don't like homosexual." If actions occur, then that should be dealt with as needed. Trying to control thoughts, unpopular or otherwise, is wrong, not to mention practically impossible.

It is NOT OK. Yes, people are entitled to their opinions. That doesn't make them right, they're still wrong, but it's that persons' choice to be wrong.

This is self-contradictory. If people can have their own opinions, how is that "wrong"? What are you arguing against if you agree people are allowed to have their own opinions (as if they're seeking your approval)?

Are you the OP of that thread yesterday? There isn't any contradictory about it. You are ENTITLED to be wrong. You can CHOOSE to be wrong. I never said you aren't entitled to choosing to be whatever you want, but that doesn't mean that option is the incorrect option. Not all view points or options are valid. And it's not about controlling thoughts, it's about highlighting things that are wrong, and treating those things accordingly.

What am I arguing against? People thinking it's not wrong or OK to hold bigoted opinions, and that people should be just "allowed" to be bigoted. Why support something wrong? Why respect people who think like that? No, sorry, no dice.

 

[spartan1077]

ate my post

 

[Blue_vision]

Well, actually, we are born racist.

Actually, we are not. It's a 100% learned trait, and not even one that's been in society since time immemorial. Racism as we know it has really only been around for less than 400 years.

 

[sycoesis]

It was "I don't like homosexual." If actions occur, then that should be dealt with as needed. Trying to control thoughts, unpopular or otherwise, is wrong, not to mention practically impossible.

It is NOT OK. Yes, people are entitled to their opinions. That doesn't make them right, they're still wrong, but it's that persons' choice to be wrong.

This is self-contradictory. If people can have their own opinions, how is that "wrong"? What are you arguing against if you agree people are allowed to have their own opinions (as if they're seeking your approval)?

i think that it is short sighted that opinions are neither right or wrong they can be just as correct or incorrect as any other statement we are entitled to our opinions but that doesn't mean we cant be wrong

 

[RatRace123]

No, it isn't OK, but it happens a lot.
Nobody can stop it, and beliefs are ingrained into the psyche, trying to get rid of them all together is nearly impossible, but beliefs can be changed, though that too is difficult, unless the person wasn't too keen on their beliefs to begin with.

We are getting better though, racism is lowering with each generation, I believe. Plus there's a lot more interracial relationships now, so in a few generations everyone'll end up being a mix of everything.

 

[101flyboy]

And by respect people, I mean their attitudes/beliefs/mental thought process. I respect all human beings as human beings, as long as they haven't actively damaged the world or people inhabiting it. With that said, there is absolutely no reason to respect the thought process who holds views that are biased. In my existence, I've never really dealt with that except a couple of times, and I cut those people from my life. Allowing bigoted attitudes to go unchecked gives a license to others to also hold these attitudes.

 

[DeASplode]

Well, actually, we are born racist.

How can anyone be born racist? We don't just pop out of our mothers and decide we hate on a group/race of people.

The way we're brought up, company we keep and general experiences would be the things to turn people racist.

 

[101flyboy]

So, I'm pretty new here, hello everyone, I'm sure you've seen me around. Anyway, I was checking out OTD forum last night, and some guy said something like I don't like black people, am I right? I don't like ____________ group, I don't recall who it was. And he said that was a legitimate opinion to have, and that it's just a preference. Others agreed with him. And I've noticed people making excuses for this type of behavior.

Well, no. It isn't OK to racist, homophobic, sexist etc. It isn't OK to dislike black people for their race, it isn't OK to be against homosexuality, and it isn't OK to think women are lesser beings than men, think all other religious options are beneath your chosen belief, and we can go on from there. It is NOT OK. Yes, people are entitled to their opinions. That doesn't make them right, they're still wrong, but it's that persons' choice to be wrong. And remember, people don't choose to be black/gay/women etc. A lot of people don't really "choose" their religious beliefs either, they are indoctrinated into them. However, bigoted beliefs against these groups is most certainly a choice.

I get tired when people make defense of such actions. People especially do it when it comes to sexuality/gender related things. Like somehow religion/"ick" factor/society/whatever bullshit they can think of makes is reasonable to be a bigot against these things. Well, someone needs to say it loud and clear. It isn't. And thinking it's acceptable and giving it a pass makes you part of the problem, because these attitudes are what causes the actions against legal citizens. There is a reason why individuals such as this are viewed negatively. It's because they are negative people, and should be seen as such.

What do you all think? Am I right or wrong? Discuss.

So how does this make you feel?

What do you mean?

 

[Blue_vision]

This is self-contradictory. If people can have their own opinions, how is that "wrong"? What are you arguing against if you agree people are allowed to have their own opinions (as if they're seeking your approval)?

Because it's simply a false opinion to say that white people are the master race, or islam is a dirty religion or girls are stupid. You can have an opinion like "social conservatism is better," but saying that black people are inferior just isn't a valid opinion to hold. Not to mention that those kinds of opinions can have serious consequences when a person feels like they have the opportunity to prove their dominance (domestic abuse, genocide, racial/religious violence, etc.)

 

[101flyboy]

Its not like they wake up one day and decide to hate others, it happens over years of experiences and conditioning due to how they were raised and the events in their lives.

Although they're still a bunch of idiots.

True, but it still is a choice, a negative one, and as you say, idiotic. Yes, it's more or less indoctrination, but one can choose not to allow themselves to be more or less brainwashed into these attitudes by standing up against it.

 

[xmbts]

It isn't ok, but it's also not ok to try and force people to think differently, all you can do is explain your side and hope for the best.

You can't force anyone to think anyway no matter what. True, that all you can do is as you said, explain where you are coming from and hope for an enlightening moment. But I do believe you should actively do your part to make people realize the error in their ways. No-one should allow bigotry to happen unchecked. Also, no-one should allow another person to have such incorrect and invalid views, because that will also hurt that person in their lives.

I agree you should try to convince otherwise, there's a huge difference between trying to convince someone to believe something and forcing them too. Not to mention it's much harder.

 

[101flyboy]

What if you're indoctrinated into bigoted beliefs?

You need to do your part to make better of yourself. Indoctrinated or not, it is a choice. No-one is born a bigot. You can choose to not be a bigot also. I know a friend who grew up in an EXTREMELY difficult situation with conservative baptist parents, and he ain't no bigot.

But really, I shouldn't have included religion as quite the same as race and the others, since it is ultimately a choice. Which is why it's annoying when the ultra religious play the victim card when other groups correctly condemn them for their actions that are not in any way validated by religious doctrine.

Well, actually, we are born racist.

I do agree that obviously wrong people play the victim card way too much. Can't they see that the entire force of society is trying to get rid of them? We just have to wait it out until they die, then they'll all be gone.

Yes, the can see that society is against them. Which is why they play the victim card, because they feel as if they are being unfairly targeted, although it's more or less people wanting to clean society up, and they just happen to be part of the problem, which they don't realize. People who play the victim card that much are insecure anyway, which means to me that they deep down know they are wrong.

No, racism isn't inborn. It's a personality trait, not an inherently mental one.

 

[Something Amyss]

Well, actually, we are born racist.

Nope. We're born to prefer similarity, but that doesn't make us racist.

That's like saying we're all born sprinters.

 

[-Samurai-]

You don't like groups of people, because they don't like groups of people? That's mighty hypocritical.

And exactly who are you to say what's OK and what isn't? Their opinions of other races/sexes/religions/whatever don't affect you in any way.

Just let it go and move on.

 

[101flyboy]

I clarified this statement. There is a difference, though. Being religious in itself is not an issue. Being a bigot is an issue.

Yeah, I saw right after I posted.

Also, this thread reminds me of a quote by F.A. Hayek, "The ultimate decision about what is accepted as right and wrong will be made not by individual human wisdom but by the disappearance of the groups that have adhered to the "wrong" beliefs."

Bottom line is, all we can do is try and teach our children (if we have any) the right way.

I love the quote. It rings so true.

Yes, the best thing to do is just continue to educate, and focus on the youth, they are the future, and they are the ones who are in the position to make the most powerful change to society. And we are seeing that as we speak, and that is something that should continue going forward.

 

[Mikodite]

The First admendment in the US consitition does NOT state that we have to agree with your opinion, only that you have the right to say it. So, when dipshits like that appear thinking racist, sexist, and so forth thoughts and claiming that they are right, well, there is an entire set of facts and scientific theories that can debunk them easy. We all know that a true troll will look like an idiot after this, and once we are sure they are a troll they are to be blissfully ignored. Those who honestly believe these things need to be humiliated in the forum.

There is no law against stupid, however, we as a society should not take the stupid seriously.

Oh, and did you know peps that in most first world nations making racist/sexist/hateful claims is NOT covered under their free speak laws, and in fact you can be charged with a crime for saying them? In your face you fucks!

 

[subject_87]

I've always agreed that there is no reason to be openly racist or bigoted. Even if someone hates blacks/Jews/middle-eastern/LGBT people, then they should keep it to themselves. We are all people and deserve nothing but respect and it isn't as socially acceptable to be discriminatory(in some places) as it is in others. Although I enjoy racist/sexist/homophobic jokes...but I don't hate the people.

I was thinking much the same thing; people can believe whatever they want to, but they definitely shouldn't act like assholes to others because of that.

 

[Something Amyss]

You don't like groups of people, because they don't like groups of people? That's mighty hypocritical.

That's really trying to force the concept of hypocrisy.

Hating someone for an inborn condition and hating someone for an elected choice are different issues.

 

[101flyboy]

You don't like groups of people, because they don't like groups of people? That's mighty hypocritical.

And exactly who are you to say what's OK and what isn't? Their opinions of other races/sexes/religions/whatever don't affect you in any way.

Just let it go and move on.

I didn't say I don't like people. I said that their opinions are wrong. Who am I to say what is wrong? I'm not saying it. Common sense, human respect and decency, and society, plus the actions caused by bigoted attitudes, tells us that these views are wrong. So to say these views don't affect me or anyone else, or society at large is wholly incorrect. It's harmful, not just to others, but to the bigot also.

Rosa Parks didn't just let it go when she was discriminated against. I'm not making any comparisons or examples, but that no, you don't just let wrong things go without making things right.