No, it isn't OK.

[Ragsnstitches]

This world is full of hypocrisy when it comes to "rights" and "justness". People try to find excuses and loop holes and no one stops to think "hey! Is this morally sound", instead they say "hey! How can I twist shallow philosophies/archaic constitutions to suit my own selfishness".

Frankly, I think people like that are complete fucking idiots and the people who let them have their way while saying "they have a point" are an intellectual league below that of a rock.

 

[BabyRaptor]

If they want to be bigoted for whatever reason, it's their loss. I say let them eat cake.

It's when they start forcing that bigotry on others, by way of laws or being discriminatory, that it becomes wrong.

 

[101flyboy]

It isn't ok, but it's also not ok to try and force people to think differently, all you can do is explain your side and hope for the best.

You can't force anyone to think anyway no matter what. True, that all you can do is as you said, explain where you are coming from and hope for an enlightening moment. But I do believe you should actively do your part to make people realize the error in their ways. No-one should allow bigotry to happen unchecked. Also, no-one should allow another person to have such incorrect and invalid views, because that will also hurt that person in their lives.

I agree you should try to convince otherwise, there's a huge difference between trying to convince someone to believe something and forcing them too. Not to mention it's much harder.

True, and it's worthless. And, boring. Since I don't actually care about these people enough to make them think differently. Yes, try your best to get them to realize right from wrong, but some people are beyond comprehension. With those people, they just need to be ignored and condemned accordingly. Like Fred Phelps, for instance.

 

[Skylants]

What if I think all religious beliefs are beneath my chosen facts?

 

[HellsingerAngel]

-snip-

-snip-

So you both discriminate bigots? Yay! hypocracy abound!

To put it bluntly: you are worng in saying that racists/sexists/homophobic aren't entitled to their opinion and that it is wrong. I'm sure you hate a lot of things people would consider stupid, archaic or just plain wrong as well. Stop trying to be some shining exemplar of paragon ideals because the most paragon ideal is to let people be who they choose to be. If that means they hate black, female lesbians, then that's their decision and I support their conviction 100% if they truly believe in that, so long as it's just words and not actions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, regardless of what you think their opinion should be or if it's right or wrong.

There's a famous quote by Mr. Winston Churchill that really hits home in this sort of topic: "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Regardless of which side of the coin you look at, be it the bigots/sexists/homophobes or the racially different/opposite gender/homosexuals, they both have stood up for their beliefs and they have every right to do so and be correct in doing so. Regardless of what you want to believe, they are all right in what they say, think and feel and for you to say that's wrong is beyond the evil you claim to be trying to stamp out. You are the evil, my good sir/madame for trying to silence those around you by claiming their beliefs are incorrect.

 

[Jedoro]

People are dumb, panicky animals and I hate most of them, but I still deal with them. Why? Because I'm a professional who doesn't let personal feelings guide my actions or decisions towards other people unless they're involved in personal issues.

 

[Eumersian]

Snip

Interesting tidbit:

That guy actually made a thread about the backlash he received from that thread. The one where he never actually said in the OP that he hated homosexuals, even though people ended up calling him a bigot anyway. You can find it here:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.251452-So-much-for-the-new-forum-rules

OT: I more or less agree with that guy. Whatever you beliefs are, I can't be bothered to care. I honestly, deep down in my God-worshiping heart don't give a shit if the WBC hates gay people. I really don't care. I have no problem with homosexuals; I lived with one this entire semester. If it bothers the WBC, so be it. What I do care about is the fact that the WBC has the audacity to make their business other people's business. If you act in a way that negatively affects the lives of others (according to whoever the "others" are in that case), then we have a problem. But people are just as entitled to their beliefs as long as they don't interfere with peoples' lives. A person can believe that white people are the devil all they want, but if they treat white people like the devil in every day life, there's an issue. That is the only time I would have an issue.

 

[mrwoo6]

Snip

OT: I more or less agree with that guy. Whatever you beliefs are, I can't be bothered to care. I honestly, deep down in my God-worshiping heart don't give a shit if the WBC hates gay people. I really don't care. I have no problem with homosexuals; I lived with one this entire semester. If it bothers the WBC, so be it. What I do care about is the fact that the WBC has the audacity to make their business other people's business. If you act in a way that negatively affects the lives of others (according to whoever the "others" are in that case), then we have a problem. But people are just as entitled to their beliefs as long as they don't interfere with peoples' lives. A person can believe that white people are the devil all they want, but if they treat white people like the devil in every day life, there's an issue. That is the only time I would have an issue.

you have summed up my thoughts perfectly.

this. its the persons right to think. it is NOT the persons right to act upon it.

 

[Pecoros7]

I think we're missing an opportunity for deeper discussion here. Why is it not OK? What defines our values and ethics? Are things right or wrong simply because the majority of people within a culture have decided it is right or wrong, or is there some deeper, more concrete source of virtue. Many people find a source of virtue in their belief in God, but atheists also seem to have a sense of absolute right and wrong even if they tend to disagree about the details of it.

People say that racism is wrong because you can't chose your skin color, but why does that matter? Wasps and roaches didn't chose to be what they are but I don't like them.

 

[BrionJames]

It all depends on your viewpoint. Indeed, the truth is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Something Amyss]

Many people find a source of virtue in their belief in God, but atheists also seem to have a sense of absolute right and wrong even if they tend to disagree about the details of it.

I'd argue that neither is true, since even within religious doctrine absolute thinking is not inherent. So not only does this read to me as false equivalency, but based on the faulty premise of balancing one side to standards that do not exist on the other.

 

[Murais]

Everybody's a little racist. It's just a question of who admits to it. Racism is bad when you let it affect your judgments and decisions in a legitimately prejudiced point of view. Beyond that? It's none of your damned business.

I tend to find Latinos obnoxious. Does that mean I hate them, or want them gone? No, and I have some great Latino friends who I find to be exceptions to the rule. But sometimes when people get into a sub-culture, it annoys the piss out of me. When someone accepts a role or niche in society, they tend to try to force themselves into that niche in every way, shape, or form. Even to extremes. And you know the people I'm talking about. It's not secluded to race, gender, or sexual preference. They're the Jersey wannabes that sit at the corner of bars and clubs and get in fights over hair and ugly girlfriends. They're the people who wear Irish flags and shamrocks on everything they own, drink nothing but Guinness, despite being a 4th generation American. They're the metalheads who wear all black and band shirts while talking about how generic and shitty modern music and dress styles are. They just rub you the wrong way.

When a person says to me "I don't like black people", unless they're wearing hoods and have a domestic terrorism record, I'm probably going to read this as "I don't like thugs and gangsters", or something else that I can glean about them and their preferences during a conversation. It doesn't make them bad people. Just learn to read between the lines a little bit, and if an opportunity comes up to POLITELY introduce your own views, and maybe even inject a little perspective into their point of view, then take it.

You can't be so sweepingly general about people and their behaviors. You're being just as hypocritical as they are. Which we all do from time to time, but it's our responsibility as smart and reasoning people to play damage control on how much of an asshole that WE look, not others.

 

[Escapefromwhatever]

And remember, people don't choose to be black/gay/women etc.

And even if they did, that wouldn't make bigoted opinions any more valid. Variety is the spice of life, and there is nothing wrong with not being a straight white male.

When a person says to me "I don't like black people", unless they're wearing hoods and have a domestic terrorism record, I'm probably going to read this as "I don't like thugs and gangsters", or something else that I can glean about them and their preferences during a conversation. It doesn't make them bad people.

You can't be so sweepingly general about people and their behaviors.

I want you to re-read that and tell me where that post went wrong.

 

[Mikodite]

This is a hard one, as we can't let people spread false facts in a given society. Things like "blacks are not equal to whites" and "women are dumber than men" are wrong: wrong in that there is scientific evidence to the contrary. Course, at the same time, people are entitled to their opinion: this is the basis of free speech and the rights to not have one's voice censored.

There is alot of ignorance, stupidity, and for some a compulsive need to purge society of certain 'evils' fearing for no rational reason that it will doom society. The latter is why many of these people are so offensive and defensive: many literally think accepting gays (for example) will bring God to smite the world like he did with Sodam and Gamora - this despite the lack of evidence of homosexuality and the 'gay lifestyle' (if there is such a thing, really) being something that is a genuine detriment to society.

I'm a person of little faith. If there is evidence that can prove/disprove an ideal that ideal should be presented accordingly. I don't like making leaps of faith because I hate to be wrong, so I make sure my facts are straight before I adapt an ideal. But this is just me. There are others who are fine with taking large leaps of faith and follow teaches as though they were stone. After all, you don't want to research every fucking topic and scan all your beliefs: you just want to live and accept what you know is truth.

So its a hard one. Whether I agree with someone or not, one should at least respect their opinion, provided that their argument is sound and can withstand cross-examination. Else, its just horseshit and as an enlightened society we should dismiss it as such.

 

[Murais]

And remember, people don't choose to be black/gay/women etc.

And even if they did, that wouldn't make bigoted opinions any more valid. Variety is the spice of life, and there is nothing wrong with not being a straight white male.

When a person says to me "I don't like black people", unless they're wearing hoods and have a domestic terrorism record, I'm probably going to read this as "I don't like thugs and gangsters", or something else that I can glean about them and their preferences during a conversation. It doesn't make them bad people.

You can't be so sweepingly general about people and their behaviors.

I want you to re-read that and tell me where that post went wrong.

I get it. I used about 20 generalizations there myself. I've got a tendency to hyperbolize, and sometimes it makes me look like an ass. Again what I tried to say at the end of my post. But my point was that unless I am able to perceive an actual mental or social discrepancy that might be indicative of someone *actually* hating a group (AKA, actively trying to dismantle/eradicate/make their lives miserable), I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm a human being. I'm doomed to generalize, as are we all (And you know this especially if you've spent any time on the internet AT ALL). The key is not to not make the generalization in the first place, but to self-check frequently enough to realize when you might be dicking over yourself and your perceptions.

 

[Wharrgarble]

"There should be no tolerance for the intolerant."

 

[Snotnarok]

If it's blatant racism then that's stupid but if it's about who you want to date/sleep with I'd say stick with what ya like.

That makes sense I guess, my friend called it "being racist in bed" which I thought was funny.