I don't understand people who do things 'out of the goodness of their heart'. There's no profit for the doer, unless the doer has the ideas of favours in mind, it just seems illogical to me.
Really?
The idea of doing something just for the sole purpose of helping someone else is that strange?
Today I have a stranger I never saw, and probably will never see again, a Euro because he was on the same bus as I and lacked a euro for the ticket.
He didn't look poor, and he probably could have gone to a ATM and catch the next bus, but I had a spare Euro and now he can go to whatever in time.
Because I can.
Honestly, best answer I can give you.
I like being nice to people, and if I can help I will.
I won't put myself in serious risk or help someone at the cost of myself.
But I can afford to lose a euro and to be honest I was probably going to spend it on food, which I could do with a little less
Am I still on the internet? Are you sure? This is... weird.
Deviate said:
I still stand by the belief that religion in general should not be protected or even set equal to standpoints/arguments that are actually backed up by scientific means. By this I mean that everyone should of course be entitled to believe what they wish (within parameters of sanity/danger to society and so on, of course) but should not be allowed to make decisions affecting others if there's actual backed up arguments to the contrary available.
Proof/Reason over Belief within things like politics, medicine and so on, in short.
Humanity simply needs to grab all the useful ideals and messages from religious sources and grow out of the childish need for the fairy tale world that the moral message was couched in. I very firmly think that this is the only path that'll allow humanity to create a better future. I can't prove this, thus this becomes just an opinion of course, but tell me... does the alternatives sound better?
In a lot of ways, I agree. I was trying to say something like this in my response to Grunt. I think my exact views on the merits of irrational belief systems requires a more nuanced response than I really want to try to give here. Certainly, they are not all destructive, nor are all rational belief systems necessarily uplifting to the human condition, which has significant implications with regard to what beliefs are practically viable. My intuition too tells me that we should do away with religious faith as a means of developing personal beliefs, but I won't argue as such until I have something relevant to add to the discussion.
I guess I will never be able to understand those people, I guess we all know them, who stand at a bus stop, train platform ,market or whatever and just start spitting on the ground for no apparent reason, except looking "cool" I guess? Even all the soccer players and other athletics do that. I don't know why, but I just think it's gross.
Keep your bodily fluids to yourself gentlemen.
If they have more saliva in their mouth than they need, why not swallow it but well, I guess I will never get it.
Or does someone have a suitable reason, except looking "cool"?
Ok it's more like taking a character you like and then that artish tarnish everuthing about that character. Ok yes this can be apply to many things like rule 34 or drawing that person out of character but changing the phyiscal apperances of that character to something unappealing I cannot stand.
Yes that would be somewhat hypercritic of me since I'm a Brony but the things is or at least from my stand point is that the whole fat and muscular is seen as a fetish and yes even there is pony fetish out there but I am no where near into that at all.
Beside yes the pony show is consider to be weird but last time I check, fat or muscular fanart is no where accepted by the masses in the most posistive light at all (most of it).
Scarim, I'm tempted to give you leniency because I feel like you're an active member in the pony group here, but I can't help but point out your philosophical inattentiveness(and your misspellings - it's hypocritical, not hypercritic). You seem to acknowledge that it's ok to like things not accepted by the masses, but you make an exception so you can condemn people with an obesity fetish. That's not fair. Unless you can come up with a relevant difference between that and you being a brony (and no, it being gross to you is not a relevant difference), then your argument is wrong. Simple as that.
Need I remind you I still referring to the fanart of the character not real life obese or muscular people as I stated before it's not my place to judge those. As far I see real life and fanart of cartoon or anime characters are seperate.
What do you mean by "it's ok to like things not accepted by the masses" since the whole brony culture is somewhat getting closer to be accepted by the people since there had been plenty of article praising the show. Yes there are still negative attitudes it but in my view such negative will not bring it down.)
Also yes I really should of spellcheck my spellings but it's getting late now which I'm getting tried.
Yeah arguement is really not my strong point (something I lack but want to be better at) so take it as you will. (Quote me again if you must and I do my best to reply back.)
The extreme right. Here's why. [http://www.teapartypatriots.org/news/connie-lanzisera-why-i-joined-the-tea-party/]
I love this bit, just thought I'd quote it:
Now, I have discovered that the federal government is subverting our U.S. Constitution. There are over 30 czars that hold positions of power, running our country outside of our constitutional framework. The president, not the Congress, has created these czars. This means Congress does not have oversight of them. This is in direct violation of our Constitution.
I think you're misreading this. There aren't secret czars. Last time I checked, the czar position is relatively well known or at least publicized when every a new one is appointed. I remember there was a big hubbub about some economic czar and that's how I found out about the position. Second, they don't run the country entirely like some shadowy organization. They run organization that assist the government. Third, she's sort of right about the President choosing these men/women without Congress Consent, and that being a violation of the Constitution. The Constitution states that a president's appointments need to be authorized by the majority of Congress. That might have changed as more laws giving more power to the Executive came about, but as the Constitution was written, the President needed that majority.
I really do have to disagree with you there. It all makes perfect sense, but that doesn't make it any easier to learn all of it and actually get it right.
I just can't understand atheists...Nothing against them, but I know that I wouldn't be able to go through life at all knowing that everything I've done was for nothing. Not to mention, I don't think I could have the heart to believe that NOTHING happens when you die...it makes me feel a little better thinking that I could live on somewhere, or be re-incarnated, or something. And...It's also nice to think that all this terrible shit happens for a grander plan, rather than just science and nature being an asshole.
Well, I'm not saying exactly that. I'm not a fan of paternalistic laws that prevent me from endangering myself (and only myself). But that's barely related, so let's move on.
I agree with that last statement, but I'm not sure if it's entirely relevant to anything any of us has said in this short conversation. Could you maybe expand on that a little or explain why you mentioned it?
People who criticize other people's game preferences. I have no problem with the games as art crowd, but they keep calling me dumb simply because I prefer fun games. It's not like there's no art games out there, there are lots. And this is not the only battle either. What's with the stupid ass hardcore vs casual thing? If you want difficult games, then buy difficult games. Look through trailers and reviews to see which ones will chew you up and spit you out from start to finish and leave people who just want to play for fun alone.
Edit: So many people saying they can't understand religious people. Here is a slightly logical answer:
If [insert deity here] does exist: you will go to heaven or be reborn as a cow or something.
If it doesn't exist: doesn't matter now that you're dead, does it?
Whenever anyone pulls that I use this response (forgot who came up with it)
Be a good person.
If there is a god, and they are just, you will go to heaven.
If there is a god, and they are unjust, they are not worthy of worship.
If there is no god, then you helped make the world a better place.
While an atheist I can see why people would follow one religion or other. It gives you answers, nicely pre-packaged, and you can go on with your life without worrying about the big, scary questions. I preffer to tackle these head-on myself, but to each thier own.
What I don't understand is when people in relationships cheat on eachother. Do you really have that little self controll that you cant keep it in your pants? For crying out loud OWN your decitions! Everything you chose to do, or not to do, is your choice and you need to learn to deal with it. Blaming it on a moment of weakness, or alchohol doesn't work for me. If you love and respect your partner, you wont betray thier trust. It's not that bloody hard is it?
Grr. Excuse me while I go find and punch some scumbags in the crotch.
Need I remind you I still referring to the fanart of the character not real life obese or muscular people as I stated before it's not my place to judge those. As far I see real life and fanart of cartoon or anime characters are seperate.
What do you mean by "it's ok to like things not accepted by the masses" since the whole brony culture is somewhat getting closer to be accepted by the people since there had been plenty of article praising the show. Yes there are still negative attitudes it but in my view such negative will not bring it down.)
Also yes I really should of spellcheck my spellings but it's getting late now which I'm getting tried.
Yeah arguement is really not my strong point (something I lack but want to be better at) so take it as you will. (Quote me again if you must and I do my best to reply back.)
You're right that it's slowly gaining acceptance, but the point I'm trying to make is that it just is ok to like things that are different. This should be evident due to the fact that when you got into ponies (which I'm vaguely certain is before I got into ponies), it wasn't yet accepted, and I imagine you didn't and still don't have any reservations about that fact. (Don't feel obligated to reply to that, I would push this point all night if you let me XD )
You want to get better at arguing? PM me any time - I give lessons for free. And you should think about coming to the pony chat tomorrow. I'm trying to start PhilosoFridays; we'll be talking about the mind-body problem (god-willing). You might pick up a few tips about structuring arguments, or get a chance to practice them yourself!
Religion. I can't wrap my head around willful delusions like that. Yes, I know it's not the popular stance to take, nor politically correct, but I just can't look at any of the religions I know and figure out why people believe in it. It's got the same factual weight as santa claus and makes about as much sense from any logical perspective and yet these religions are not only widespread beliefs but it's political and at times even social suicide to speak against them.
It's mindboggling to me. There's no scientifically backed indication of any of it having even a nugget of truth to it and yet it's 'narrowminded' or 'hateful' to point out the ridiculousness of it all.
I'll of course respect anyone's right to believe in these things, but the most aneurysm inducing part of it all is that there's no respect given to those who believe religion holds about as much water as a sieve.
The religious, I dont get how people can overlook the barbarity and outmoded moral concepts thats rife throughout religion. I dont get how these people can then say they hold the moral high ground, that as an atheist Im spiritually dead and morally suspect.
If Im totally honest it makes me very angry.
I think you guys tend to generalize religion and portray it in more of a bad light than it deserves. There are many things about religion that have benefits. Yes, there are negatives to religion, but there are negatives to everything. Yes, the more zealous religious folk can do some very immature and very mean things, but so can a very zealous atheist.
Religion, in general, should serve one purpose for people: comfort. This comfort comes in many ways. It may come as comfort living in a bad situation, or handed a bit bit of bad luck, wondering why that is. Isn't the thought that maybe some unknown force that maybe has your eventual best interest in mind a more soothing thought that just thinking that your life is shit for no reason? That maybe, you are suffering now, but after you die you will enter into a paradise so blissful it cannot be described? Also, doesn't the idea that someone shaped us in His image make us sound so much more important than such an insignificant speck in the confines of the universe?
Yes, in some ways, it is blocking out the truth, and I believe everyone should try to be as educated and knowledgable of the world as they can, but sometimes, people don't want to learn that they are insignificant and useless. That's a very depressing thought that makes everything they do seem meaningless. Sometimes, working for the goal of heaven makes the suffering of life more tolerable, and while I think being a zealot and willingly blocking out knowledge is indeed a problem, religion serves many comforting roles. Also, religion, while indeed outdated in many regards, has many timeless parables. The Golden Rule? Treat Others as You Would Want To Be Treated? Is that outdated? You may say that that should be common knowledge, but it isn't. Sometimes, we need a book to tell us so.
In addition, I think religion can be mixed with scientific thought. I believe that God is some sort of creator, but he does not intervene in our lives. He carves and places the dominoes, knocks the first one over, and then watches. He does not meddle in our affairs. He does not bring hurricanes, or suffering, or death. People and the natural causes of the Earth do. And while he may have created all of this, I believe mankind is slowly discovering how he did it. Every new discovery about the world is just uncovering more and more of God's design. It was already there, we are just discovering more pages of God's "How to Build a Universe" book. And not only does that reconcile the ideas of religion and science, it makes me excited for the pursuit of knowledge and science.
Finally, I agree with you on one point that I know you probably have: no, religion should not be used as some sort of reasoning for hate. That is unacceptable in any regard, for any mode of thinking. If science was somehow used as some sort of reasoning for hate, I would chastise those people just as quickly as I would someone who abused religion.
This is just a short version of why religion is not as bad as you make it out to be. I could discuss how it was influential in a historical standpoint, but you three seem to understand already. I don't want to sound pompous in this post, I just think religion gains more hate than it deserves, only because a number of close-minded fools abuse it, like they would abuse anything else.
Also,
Insanum said:
There are just two things I cant stand, People who are intolerant of other peoples races & beliefs, and the dutch.
The bad thing about that comfort from religion is that it turns people into zealots just so they have more comfort in their hearts. Overall I just can't believe all that comfort mess I know they world is bad really bad yet if there was an all holy being they wouldn't allow a majority of the shit humans do on a daily bases. Not to sound mean it's just I find those so desperate for comfort as weak spirited.
I gone... Well I pretty much forced to a baptist church when I was younger and it kinda pissed me off that people bought into the bullshit these "holy men" were speaking I just couldn't stand the reasoning to get up early to listen to 3 hours of dribble. I can 100% agree with the good will to man and not do stupid part yet the whole fairy tales and undertones of hate I just can't agree with at all.
I just can't understand atheists...Nothing against them, but I know that I wouldn't be able to go through life at all knowing that everything I've done was for nothing. Not to mention, I don't think I could have the heart to believe that NOTHING happens when you die...it makes me feel a little better thinking that I could live on somewhere, or be re-incarnated, or something. And...It's also nice to think that all this terrible shit happens for a grander plan, rather than just science and nature being an asshole.
Why do you think atheists believe what we do is "for nothing"?
I'm generally a nice guy, and if i help someone, why do i need to be motivated either by promise of paradise or threat of eternal damnation? How is a good deed i do "for nothing"? As secular humanist (in addition to my weak atheist position and my anticlericalism), i recognize an innate worth in good deeds. Just because i'm a materialist does not mean i'm a nihilist.
As to a belief in what happens after death - ever religion i've come accross until now has had some rules that simply did not fit well with my personal system of ethics. Thus, i could be religious & happy, and go to hell; or religious and unhappy, and go to heaven. Neither seems very appealing to me. In contrast, my unbelief in life after death brings me to the conclusion that i have this one, and only this one, life to do as best i can, and live as best i will. I may be somewhat hedonistic, but i'm really not faced with a feeling of impending doom or emptiness.
As to nature: it's not an asshole. It's indifferent, and not even that. It simply is. No reason not to enjoy its nicer sides.
On the other hand: If i believed all the things happening were part of a greater plan, i'd be really angry at the guy who made this plan. Lousy user support, faulty implementation, mission creep -- as a project manager, this hypothetical planner has failed.
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