No one plays adventure games anymore?

[jthwilliams]

Seriously, I joined this forum 2 weeks ago and haven't seen one mention of an adventure game. Every other genre has been mentioned - FPS, RPG, action, strategy, simulation. But no adventure.

Now, I'm not criticizing anyone for their choice of game (why would I?), but I would like to understand why it's so unpopular, for something that two decades ago was the most popular game genre.

How do you define adventure game? I'm actually not too sure tbh, I would classify most open RPGs as adventure myself. =/

I'm pretty sure he means "Point and Click Adventure", but thought those were the over-arching genre definers - to which they are not. They are a sub-genre (and much like my beloved SRPGs, a niche one at that).

point and click is a distinction from text-based both of which could be considered sub-genres of the adventure genre, but .... action/adventure is a hybred used by lazy reviewers who decided there weren't enough adventure games anymore to give them their own catagory. That might not be fair, but it is a hybred not a sub genre.

If combat or reflex based gameplay is a central part of the game, it simply isn't an adventure game.

Here before you tell me I wrong:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphic_adventure_game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action-adventure_game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure_game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_based_adventure_game

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

And yes, TellTale have been onf of the only traditional point and click series popular enough to garner significant attention.

Telltale haven't put out any point and click games for many years. Their last one was probably Sam & Max about 5 years ago.

WHy do you say most fall under the radar? They don't get articles on The Escapist, (which is the point of this whole thread) but they still sell a lot (especially in Germany) and are popular enough to still get dozens of releases out every year, presumably without financial loss.

 

[maninahat]

snip

..The reason being the gamers weren't intelligent enough to be bothered solving puzzles. There's a reason you couldn't enjoy Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, and it wasn't because of bad puzzle design.

As for what is "adventure" - the genre of a game refers to its style of gameplay. So in an RPG you are "role-playing" with your character, in a simulation you are simulating the growth of a city. Otherwise we'd call the Duke Nukem Forever a RPG, because what else are you doing if not playing the role of Duke?

Yeah, that's right. Everyone is an idiot. Only a fool would not realise that the best way to retreive an object in Sam and Max is to place a fish shaped magnet into the severed hand of Jesse James, attached to a broken golf ball retreiver. And how better than to stop a deadly dominoo trap in Grm Fandango, than to make a giant demon vomit fast freezing liquid all over the track. These puzzles do not have any trace of logic. Often they only make the slightest sense in hindsight. I remember in Monkey Island 2, an instance where you have to turn off a water valve. What item would you use for that? Oh, a wild monkey. Oh, I see "monkey wrench". Things like that only make sense after the fact. And even then it doesn't (who would think to rub a valve with a monkey?)

The new Tell Tale Sam and Max games are easy for a reason - the puzzles make sense, the solutions make sense, and it is possible for people to use their brain in solving the solution - instead of resorting to rubbing every object with the contents of your inventory.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Escape From Monkey Island doesn't even use a mouse - what is being pointed and clicked? And Darkness Within 2 has FPS controls, minus the shooting. I don't know where you get your information, because you obviously haven't played those games.

It's been defined as a first person point and click on every site I've visited so far.

You're right about Escape (though the earlier entries are all point and click) but it's been defined as being essentially a point and click in design (puzzles, etc) - just with awful controls added on.

Why define the method of control at all? How is that important? When we talk about RPGs we don't call them "drag and hold RPGs" or "push and release RPGs" when it requires that action to swing the sword. Do we?

The fact EFMI was called a point&click in most places proves that we don't care what the control is - an adventure is an adventure. I think "point&click" has come to replace the term "adventure" because people have been confusing action games like Zelda and Tomb Raider for adventures.

 

[Soxafloppin]

I pretty much only play action/adventure game, I don't like FPS, or any shooter for that matter really. I like racing games now and again Adventure games make up the bulk of my gaming diet.

 

[maninahat]

And yes, TellTale have been onf of the only traditional point and click series popular enough to garner significant attention.

Telltale haven't put out any point and click games for many years. Their last one was probably Sam & Max about 5 years ago.

WHy do you say most fall under the radar? They don't get articles on The Escapist, (which is the point of this whole thread) but they still sell a lot (especially in Germany) and are popular enough to still get dozens of releases out every year, presumably without financial loss.

Did you miss their Back to the Future and Monkey Island games?

Only smaller companies tend to bother with point and click these days. They are cheap to make, so they don't need a massive fan base to make a return. Which is just as well, as the fan base is probably smaller still than that of the hidden object games (which also pump out dozens of titles per year).

Tell Tale was also one of those companies. They made it big by plundering nostalgia titles or movies, thus allowing them to easily take on entire franchises and their associated fan bases.

 

[jthwilliams]

^ this, basically. Does anyone other than Telltale actually make them any more?

by adventure do you mean the "point and click" monkey island variety?

just like "platformers" they arnt exactally the most popular genre

Two rather ignorant comments, which was always to be expected given the negligible coverage of this type of game on The Escapist.

I remember the Sherlock Holmes series, but they are bad enough to warrant obscurity.

So True! I'm not sure weather to like adventure works because they've been one of the few publishers dedicated to creating adventure games for the past decade or hate them becaue in a genre that depends on good story, they have managed to release so many really really bad ones.

^ this, basically. Does anyone other than Telltale actually make them any more?

by adventure do you mean the "point and click" monkey island variety?

just like "platformers" they arnt exactally the most popular genre

Two rather ignorant comments, which was always to be expected given the negligible coverage of this type of game on The Escapist.

When people have these "adventure game" discussions, they almost invariably are referring to point and click games, rather than Uncharted or Tomb Raider.

That is because the central game play for both tomb raider and uncharted or combat and/or platforming. They have story in them, but that isn't the central driving factor. Neither of these are adventure games, they are both action games. This gets confusing because action games are often combined with adventure games in the action/adventure catagory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action-adventure_game

But if you spend a significant part of gameplay trying to shoot things, or trying to jump from one platform to another, you are not playing and adventure game. Though you may be playing an action game with adventure game elements.

Action Games - are about hand eye coordination and performing physical tasks, (jumping, shooting, aming, etc)

Adventure Games - are about intelectual play, puzzel solving, problem solving, dialog

Action Adventure - combines elements of both but tends to be more heavily towards central play of action.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Darkness Within 2 has been defined as a first person point and click on every site I've visited so far.

So, according to you, every game that uses a mouse must be a "point and click" game. Because all FPS, RPG, simulation, racing car and action game that uses a mouse requires you to point it and click it.

 

[BreakfastMan]

And yes, TellTale have been onf of the only traditional point and click series popular enough to garner significant attention.

Telltale haven't put out any point and click games for many years. Their last one was probably Sam & Max about 5 years ago.

WHy do you say most fall under the radar? They don't get articles on The Escapist, (which is the point of this whole thread) but they still sell a lot (especially in Germany) and are popular enough to still get dozens of releases out every year, presumably without financial loss.

Ah, there is your problem. Most Escapists don't live in Germany. Most Escapists live in America, or Canada, or the U.K., so it is very doubtful we enjoy or often play a genre that is popular in Germany. I live in the US and have a pretty extensive knowledge of games, and even I still had to look up 2/3rds of the games on that list you posted a while back (BTW, if you have to fill out a list with Telltale episodes, you are reaching). The genre has just died in popularity on this side of the Atlantic.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

I remember the Sherlock Holmes series, but they are bad enough to warrant obscurity.

So True! I'm not sure weather to like adventure works because they've been one of the few publishers dedicated to creating adventure games for the past decade or hate them becaue in a genre that depends on good story, they have managed to release so many really really bad ones.

Which Sherlock Holmes games do you mean? Because the Frogwares ones were some of the best adventure games I've played - Silver Earring, The Awakened and vs Arsene Lupin especially.

 

[maninahat]

It's funny how you complain about that people don't understand adventure games yet you're unable to provide a definition for it yourself. Give us the list of 1 adventure game released for each month of 2011 since you claim there are so many.

I gave a definition on the last page: A story based game in which you play as a protagonist, with progress based on success in solving puzzles, and with little or no reflex-based actions required from the player.

2011 adventure game releases
Jan: Carol Reed: Blue Madonna
Feb: Stacking
Mar: Aspectus: Rinascimento Chronicles
Apr: The Next Big Thing
May: Last Half of Darkness: Society of the Serpent Moon
June: A New Beginning
Jul: Back To The Future: Episode 5
Aug: Hector Badge of Carnage: Episode 2
Sep: Relics
Oct: Book of Unwritten Tales
Nov: Jurassic Park: The Game
Dec: Dark Star: The Interactive Movie

Interestingly, I've only ever seen a couple of those games advertised anywhere. And don't start saying something about the Escapist ignoring them - these games, if they are really as popular as you seem to be suggesting, should be able to put an ad somewhere. But I haven't seen them advertised here, or on rock paper shotgun, or on shack news. Basically, these games don't get release coverage because even the gaming press are unaware as to them - if they do not advertise their games, how are the us plebs supposed to know about them?

 

[jthwilliams]

I remember the Sherlock Holmes series, but they are bad enough to warrant obscurity.

So True! I'm not sure weather to like adventure works because they've been one of the few publishers dedicated to creating adventure games for the past decade or hate them becaue in a genre that depends on good story, they have managed to release so many really really bad ones.

Which Sherlock Holmes games do you mean? Because the Frogwares ones were some of the best adventure games I've played - Silver Earring, The Awakened and vs Arsene Lupin especially.

honestly, I can't remember since I played like two and gave up on them. I found the dialog to be badly voiced and the story to be unconvining. It just left me with a bad taste in my mouth. It may be that I just had a bad experience, but I hadn't tried any of the more recent ones.

 

[maninahat]

I remember the Sherlock Holmes series, but they are bad enough to warrant obscurity.

So True! I'm not sure weather to like adventure works because they've been one of the few publishers dedicated to creating adventure games for the past decade or hate them becaue in a genre that depends on good story, they have managed to release so many really really bad ones.

Which Sherlock Holmes games do you mean? Because the Frogwares ones were some of the best adventure games I've played - Silver Earring, The Awakened and vs Arsene Lupin especially.

I thought they were lousy. I remember in the demo of the Arsene Lupin game. Within a minute, I figured out that Arsene Lupin was hiding in a conspicuously over-sized box by the front door of the national art gallery. Holmes however, would simply say (on seeing the box) "that is an unusually large box, I wonder what it is doing here?" Not a good start when the greatest detective in the world is slower witted than even myself. No, I had to mess around with a damn sliding tile puzzle instead. Not much to do with deductive reasoning, I find. Better than those terrible quizzes they had in previous Sherlock Holmes games though. I kind of liked the forensic style approach in Holmes vs. Jack the Ripper because that felt more like what Holmes would really be doing. Shame that the cut scenes show the murder and make Holmes subsequent discoveries a tad redundant.

 

[Felstaff]

I have a tendency to classify 'adventure games' with games that require lateral and abstract thinking in order to progress, rather than hand-eye coordination, digit-dexterity, and fast reactions. Cerebral, rather than visceral. The kind of game that you don't need to pause if you were to step away from your screen.

Also; that the protagonist goes on an adventure.

I'm currently playing City of Secrets on iOS, which is a harmless and humorous (and cheap!) Tim Schaefer/Sam & Maxesque game with nifty graphics. Alongside Amanita Design, iOS/Android has re-opened the point 'n' click/Tap Adventure genre, as you can get your Broken Monkey Myst fix (and to a lesser extent, Flashback, which requires Gamin' Skills) and lots of indie studios can develop this style of Adventure! in their own basements with minimum budgets.

 

[jthwilliams]

point and click is a distinction from text-based both of which could be considered sub-genres of the adventure genre, but .... action/adventure is a hybred used by lazy reviewers who decided there weren't enough adventure games anymore to give them their own catagory. That might not be fair, but it is a hybred not a sub genre.

If combat or reflex based gameplay is a central part of the game, it simply isn't an adventure game.

Here before you tell me I wrong:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphic_adventure_game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action-adventure_game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure_game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_based_adventure_game

What's funny here is the wiki page for "Action-Adventure" denotes this:
"The first known game in this genre is the Atari 2600 game Adventure (1979)"

So, the origins were to bulk up the genre with more titles, and has been a mainstay for 31 years, but this is not enough for action-adventure to be considered in the adventure category!?

Get over yourself sir.

The page goes on to further explain the action-adventrue is a hybrid genre and further has a large section on the difference.

I also want to point out that I didn't say a game was better than the other or that action games players or adventure game players were X, Y, or Z.

I'm very sorry that you have taken exception to me pointing out that there is a difference between action, action/adventure and adventure games and providing links that show that information. Please believe me it was not meant to be a slight against anyone.

My only statement here was like the OP, I really good adventure game when it comes out and I find that is rare that someone publishes one. Further that saying well adventure games evolved into action/adventure is both incorrect and somewhat insulting to people who like adventure games as it suggests that action/adventure games are better.

Again, I'm sorry to have anoyed you. I do recommend that if you are interested in the topic of adventure vs. action adventure that you continue to read the links I provided as there is some quite interesting informaion beyong the first paragraph.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

I remember the Sherlock Holmes series, but they are bad enough to warrant obscurity.

So True! I'm not sure weather to like adventure works because they've been one of the few publishers dedicated to creating adventure games for the past decade or hate them becaue in a genre that depends on good story, they have managed to release so many really really bad ones.

Which Sherlock Holmes games do you mean? Because the Frogwares ones were some of the best adventure games I've played - Silver Earring, The Awakened and vs Arsene Lupin especially.

I thought they were lousy. I remember in the demo of the Arsene Lupin game. Within a minute, I figured out that Arsene Lupin was hiding in a conspicuously over-sized box by the front door of the national art gallery. Holmes however, would simply say (on seeing the box) "that is an unusually large box, I wonder what it is doing here?" Not a good start when the greatest detective in the world is slower witted than even myself. No, I had to mess around with a damn sliding tile puzzle instead. Not much to do with deductive reasoning, I find. Better than those terrible quizzes they had in previous Sherlock Holmes games though. I kind of liked the forensic style approach in Holmes vs. Jack the Ripper because that felt more like what Holmes would really be doing. Shame that the cut scenes show the murder and make Holmes subsequent discoveries a tad redundant.

I must not have played the demo because that scene wasn't in the full game (thank god). And no sliders either. I think it's safe to say they upped the difficulty significantly, because that is one very tough game.

I disliked the quizzes too, forgot about those. The next game, Testament of Sherlock Holmes looks like a significant makeover of the series so I'm hoping it's for the better.

 

[Yopaz]

It's funny how you complain about that people don't understand adventure games yet you're unable to provide a definition for it yourself. Give us the list of 1 adventure game released for each month of 2011 since you claim there are so many.

I gave a definition on the last page: A story based game in which you play as a protagonist, with progress based on success in solving puzzles, and with little or no reflex-based actions required from the player.

2011 adventure game releases
Jan: Carol Reed: Blue Madonna
Feb: Stacking
Mar: Aspectus: Rinascimento Chronicles
Apr: The Next Big Thing
May: Last Half of Darkness: Society of the Serpent Moon
June: A New Beginning
Jul: Back To The Future: Episode 5
Aug: Hector Badge of Carnage: Episode 2
Sep: Relics
Oct: Book of Unwritten Tales
Nov: Jurassic Park: The Game
Dec: Dark Star: The Interactive Movie

Using that definition visual novels that you have dismissed are adventure games. Also Portal 2 could also be classified as an adventure game since it contains few puzzles where you need to use reflexes.
Amnesia The Dark Descent is also an adventure game seeing there is no combat and the whole thing is about solving puzzles and hiding.

Now that I have a list of adventure games and a proper definition I am able to voice my hypothesis for the decline in popularity and ammount of games.
The titles you mentioned have not been marketed a whole lot, I have only noticed a few of them before this so they have managed to slip completely under my radar. Same thing happened to the newest Tony Hawk game. No-one heard about it before it was announced to be the worst selling Tony Hawk game ever. Duke Nukem Forever is hardly a good game, yet everyone has at least heard about it.
Adventure games also don't have a lot of replay value since when you have solved the puzzles once and experienced the story once there's little new the game can throw at you.

Edit: there's also the Ace Attorney games and Professor Layton games.

 

[maninahat]

I remember the Sherlock Holmes series, but they are bad enough to warrant obscurity.

So True! I'm not sure weather to like adventure works because they've been one of the few publishers dedicated to creating adventure games for the past decade or hate them becaue in a genre that depends on good story, they have managed to release so many really really bad ones.

Which Sherlock Holmes games do you mean? Because the Frogwares ones were some of the best adventure games I've played - Silver Earring, The Awakened and vs Arsene Lupin especially.

I thought they were lousy. I remember in the demo of the Arsene Lupin game. Within a minute, I figured out that Arsene Lupin was hiding in a conspicuously over-sized box by the front door of the national art gallery. Holmes however, would simply say (on seeing the box) "that is an unusually large box, I wonder what it is doing here?" Not a good start when the greatest detective in the world is slower witted than even myself. No, I had to mess around with a damn sliding tile puzzle instead. Not much to do with deductive reasoning, I find. Better than those terrible quizzes they had in previous Sherlock Holmes games though. I kind of liked the forensic style approach in Holmes vs. Jack the Ripper because that felt more like what Holmes would really be doing. Shame that the cut scenes show the murder and make Holmes subsequent discoveries a tad redundant.

I must not have played the demo because that scene wasn't in the full game (thank god). And no sliders either. I think it's safe to say they upped the difficulty significantly, because that is one very tough game.

I disliked the quizzes too, forgot about those. The next game, Testament of Sherlock Holmes looks like a significant makeover of the series so I'm hoping it's for the better.

In fairness to the games, they have been gettin progressively better, both in terms of production value and puzzles. Subsequently, I think the public interest in them has increased with each game too. Here is hoping the next one does well.