Nobel laureate forced out of studies after making joke about women

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Batou667

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Oct 5, 2011
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The guy's real mistake was not realising that in the current sociopolitical climate, making an off-colour quip about women is grounds for summary dismissal. Obviously this dinosaur was still operating in a late-90s/early-00s paradigm and hadn't absorbed a sufficient amount of contemporary Twitter and Tumblr-disseminated awareness-raising material concerning sensitivity and inclusivity.

There's an outside chance he could have kept his job if his comment had been about "darkies" or "the gays". But insult women? Quick, amputate the diseased appendage, it's a liability! Damage control!
 

DEAD34345

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Aug 18, 2010
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BloatedGuppy said:
Everybody seems to like these online lynchings so long as they approve of the target. They'll characterize it as karmic comeuppance, or a commendable "revolt", or throw some kind of brightly colored blanket over it and pretend its anything but a bunch of panicky village idiots with torches and pitchforks come to burn yet another witch, no questions asked.
Maybe this is just wishful thinking, but I don't think most people approve of these lynchings, just that the people who do approve talk a lot more and are a lot more visible on the internet. Especially in already left-leaning communities like this site[footnote]That sounds like some kind of veiled insult or something, but it isn't supposed to be, it's just a statement of fact. I generally have no problems with the political leaning of this site, I'm pretty far left in most areas myself in fact.[/footnote],tumbler/twitter, and probably the internet in general to some degree.

OT: Depressing, as always. The acceptable targets and professed causes shift around over time, but it seems like people will always just gang up to ruin random victims' lives from time to time.
 

kurokotetsu

Proud Master
Sep 17, 2008
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As said. It wasn't a joke first. If I cry "You are a fucking idiot with no brains" to any one of those claiming it was a joke and say "I mean it" right after and three days after claim it was a joke no one will believe me and they shouldn't. Because it looks like me covering my ass for an offensive remark. I don't believe the joke angle and the OP ignores the stuff that came before (as sourced by other people) about beeing a real comment.

And his position as a Nobel laureate makes it worse, not better. He is the most visible and important face of the Scientific community. And making a sexit remark (because saying that all women are emotional and fall in love and cry at the slightest critizism is sexist) as someone as high profile makes the whole Scientific community look bad and sexit. ANd as a community wiht long standing problems with female representation as STEM fields that just seems as a confirmation. He made a terribel remark adn tried to backpedal. Nobel or not, he acted like an idiot.

Should he lose his job? I don't know. His pressence with a lot of female (and probably a lot of male) researches would be toxic after being in public saying things like that, even if it wasn't before. If he thinks that stuff, he will make a bad workplace enviroment, no matter how talented he may be. Having a Nobel prize isn't immunity of getting fired after making the lab worse for everyone else.

(And as an aside, the probable contributions lost should be minimal, as statistically he has done most of his important job. It may seem callous, and it is, but he is past his prime. Getting rid of a presence that is toxic may far outwieght the possible work he may do at his age.)

I'm not falling in any camp, but there is a lot being ignored in the thread.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

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Oct 9, 2008
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There are a lot of scientists out there who are really quirky or weird (ever hear Richard Dawkins trivialise sexual assault because he believes his own experience of being molested didn't traumatise him?) because genius goes hand in hand with madness. If you start kicking them all out because they said something weird or wore a unprofessional shirt you could end up sacrificing a lot of scientific progress. Tell him he's being a dickhead, punish him but then allow the Nobel prize winner to keep contributing to science in his job I say.
 

Thaluikhain

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bartholen said:
The idea that the kind of people who pull these stunts off (ie. taking part in group bitching and Twitter slacktivism) call themselves feminists or say they're fighting the "patriarchy" almost makes my blood boil. I bet you'll never see them taking on Iran's ayatollah, dalit rapes in India
Going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that many people complaining about this have very limited power over Iran's ayatollah.

I'm also guessing that people complaining about them also aren't doing much about Iran's ayatollah.
 

DeimosMasque

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Jun 30, 2010
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Was he in the wrong? Yes. I think it is safe to say his comment was offensive and even as a joke, the venue of which he made that statement was the wrong place to do it.

Did he deserve to lose his job over it? No. People say stupid things all the time, in the wrong venues more often than not. Suspended without pay for a bit, sure. Maybe made to make an apology (as half hearted as that may have been?) Perhaps. But not fired.

Do I think he'll have any problem getting another teaching job/lab job/grant? No. Let's face it, he messed up in public, it happens. If anything the overreaction will make places -more- sympathetic to him rather than less. That's the problem with obvious overreactions. Most people ignore them after they recognize them for what they are. And being a Nobel laureate is pretty much a feather in the hat of any company, lab or school that will take them.

To sum up. The decision was wrong, but I have no doubts he'll land on his feet. Hell even Brian Cox is defending him and that's a man you want on your side... period.
 

Bat Vader

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Mar 11, 2009
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If someone wants to say or do something risky or stupid I say let them. It's their own fault if whatever they said or did comes back to bit them in the ass later.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Wow. I didn't know it was possible to fit that much foot in one's mouth.

It wasn't just someone making a crummy joke among friends. He stood his arse up and said it at a gathering of female scientists. Seems he only trotted out the ol' "it was just a joke" routine once it blew up in his face.

On the other hand, getting the sack for a remark, no matter how dumb, seems entirely excessive.

Not a fan of the Twitter lynch mob harpies either.
 

renegade7

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Feb 9, 2011
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Yes, that's what it's like to work in the lab.

Just sexy people in labcoats falling in love and crying. Like on Scrubs.

And apparently my weak male brain can't handle the pressure of working with a female partner. I must be separated from the women, or who knows what I might do when I lose control because my brain is taken over by carnal lust?

The fact that it was a joke does not make it okay. He is a Nobel Laureate and one of the foremost scientists in the world in his field. Being a leader does not excuse the behavior, it makes the standards expected of him all the higher. This wasn't an off-hand joke he made to some friends on their downtime, he stood up in front of a room full of women as a speaker in a panel on women in science and then made the comment that laboratories should be gender segregated because women cry, can't control themselves emotionally, and are so sexy that they distract men. That was not a smart thing to do.

I will say this though, from experience. Academic science is an absolute shitshow of petty squabbling and politics. Reputation is the lifeblood of academia. Departments compete for very limited grant money, and the grant writers are absolutely paranoid about the possibility of losing face.

It's insane, and it's utterly ridiculous that he lost his job over it, when a formal apology should have been all it took. By all counts, he appears to have been a capable teacher and an excellent scientist. It's also inexcusable that his wife should have taken the blowback as well. However, I have confidence that once this has all blown over cooler heads will prevail and he will be able to appeal the decision.
 

DementedSheep

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Jan 8, 2010
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He shouldn't have been fired (unless that was the straw that broke the camels back) but it wasn't a "joke". As per usual, calling it a joke is just being used as flimsy shield to deflect blowback.
I used to be surprised people fall for this bullshit all the time but now I suspect most don't actually fall for it and instead just pick up the same shield for the same reason.
 

Phasmal

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Jun 10, 2011
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Zhukov said:
Wow. I didn't know it was possible to fit that much foot in one's mouth.

It wasn't just someone making a crummy joke among friends. He stood his arse up and said it at a gathering of female scientists. Seems he only trotted out the ol' "it was just a joke" routine once it blew up in his face.

On the other hand, getting the sack for a remark, no matter how dumb, seems entirely excessive.

Not a fan of the Twitter lynch mob harpies either.
Yeah kinda this. Guy's a jerk, in my opinion, and should have been told he was a jerk and reprimanded, but losing his job is over the top.
And I saw this back when he was doing the `I'm just being honest` excuse, there was no mention of it being a joke at all, so that's just backpedalling.


Caramel Frappe said:
I think an apology and maybe a day or so off from work would of sufficed. Being threatened to leave his job or else is way over the top.
Sure his joke was cruddy, but the man probably faced bad experiences with women when it comes to dating. As someone else said, if a woman was to joke about men- there'd be 0 issues and most would laugh. But on no, a guy said it so therefore, it's "sexist" am I right?

Double standards aren't cool. Either both genders can't do it or freedom of speech is FREEDOM of speech. Jesus christ people.
Really Caramel? I actually think it would be pretty much the same with a woman, except it would be the anti-sjw crowd calling for their head on a plate/firing.

Either way it shouldn't happen, but I don't think it'd be much different.
 

FirstNameLastName

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Bat Vader said:
If someone wants to say or do something risky or stupid I say let them. It's their own fault if whatever they said or did comes back to bit them in the ass later.
That doesn't absolve the lynch mob from overreacting. Also, how far are you willing to stick by this philosophy? If someone speaks ill of a dictator amongst friends and is reported and imprisoned/executed, are we supposed to blame them for the result? What if someone is executed for questioning the dominant religion of the area, is it still the victim's fault? What of all the civil rights activists who were beaten by literal lynch mobs for expressing risky opinions? Still to blame?

There has to be a point where it becomes the fault of those punishing people for their opinions, and I would say this is definitely in the unfair camp.
 

FirstNameLastName

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Phasmal said:
Caramel Frappe said:
I think an apology and maybe a day or so off from work would of sufficed. Being threatened to leave his job or else is way over the top.
Sure his joke was cruddy, but the man probably faced bad experiences with women when it comes to dating. As someone else said, if a woman was to joke about men- there'd be 0 issues and most would laugh. But on no, a guy said it so therefore, it's "sexist" am I right?

Double standards aren't cool. Either both genders can't do it or freedom of speech is FREEDOM of speech. Jesus christ people.
Really Caramel? I actually think it would be pretty much the same with a woman, except it would be the anti-sjw crowd calling for their head on a plate/firing.

Either way it shouldn't happen, but I don't think it'd be much different.
Doubt it. While there might be a bit of grumbling on some forums, I very highly doubt they would lose their job.
 

Phasmal

Sailor Jupiter Woman
Jun 10, 2011
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FirstNameLastName said:
Doubt it. While there might be a bit of grumbling on some forums, I very highly doubt they would lose their job.
Okay. I'm sure I've heard of women losing their jobs for saying dumb things, but I don't follow twitter nontroversies closely, so I can't give examples, so I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree.
 

BytByte

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Nov 26, 2009
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Wow, what he said was really stupid.

Wow, the outrage that cost him his job was even stupider.

Wow, it's easy to be stupid.
 

Evil Smurf

Admin of Catoholics Anonymous
Nov 11, 2011
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He was not sacked, he quit, and it was not a joke, it was sexist comment. Good riddance for sexist shitbags.
 

Fox12

AccursedT- see you space cowboy
Jun 6, 2013
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Sometimes really smart people say really stupid things.

Still, it wasn't bad enough to get fired for. Meanwhile Lars Von Trier is an avowed Nazi, and the world gives a collective shrug.

Edit: Ah, he quit? No sympathies there, then. What a baby.