Non-MMO Fans! What would get you to play one?
- Thread starter PedroSteckecilo
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I think the thing is, with MMO's the strength of an MMo is teamplay. And people are generally buttplugs so not worth teaming with. So it's frustrating finding 6 random people that get along well enough to make the most out of the experience.
EQ, for all it's multitude of flaws, originally seemed to grasp this when Verant ran it. A good example is the game pace was slow, and way too simple to be entertaining. Downtime was a *****. But this gave you time to type communications to your team and socialise a little, and it was THIS side of it I actually enjoyed, because I met some good people through it. Soon, I found the guild socialisation was the main thing that I enjoyed. (And I do have a life outside MMO's. I was at uni, playing sport and hanging with mates often enough.), and at higher levels when people needed to be co-ordinated, that slow pace helped.
Also, no auto maps and vision problems based on race so just getting about could be tricky and fun, even if you where high level. Some stuff that seemed so frustrating added challenge that is sorely missing from WoW and others. Good example is being a Human level 20, it was easy to get about the lowbie woods just next to the halfling town. But when night fell, no vision and Level 40+ mobs made it a veritable no go zone unless you were feeling pretty sure. And the long corpse run with no gear made it a real consideration. I ran the gauntlet heaps of times because hugging the boundary was a pretty good chance of clean crossing. Though I did get caught out once and nearly caught more than a few times by mobs on the boundary.
It had a lot of things that in retrospect, made the game a challenge where other games let you have a free lunch. Crossing the mainland as a level 8 is doable, and quite hard if you're just starting the game and want to get to your mates starting zone and you know no one, and have nothing. But when I did it, I proclaimed booyah!
Also, the levels had some atmosphere. And being stuck in first person mode because third person was almost unusable made it more immersive. Stupid but true. Lock in first person to help make wandering sentries more of a challenge rather than something dead obvious. You don't want to turn from the fight, but you don't want something sneaking on your back either.
So challenge really, is what is lacking from a lot of games. But what isn't needed from EQ? Buggy programming, pathing and Ai. poor Ai, fetch/murder quests from here to hades and back, balance and economy issues, predictable combat in normal situations, levels and gear being the 90% requirement to win a straight fight, as opposed to skill. There needs to be some reward for gear and character experience, but skill needs to be more like 50%. (Mind, skillful druids and chanters can make a difference. But warriors? So long as they taunted and hit stuff, they are gear driven.)
Gotta go, but some challenge to the world at large by promotion of good social skills rather than just the fights can help an MMO be different to a single playr game. That's where I find WoW falls down. I never really found it utilised socialisation much.
EQ, for all it's multitude of flaws, originally seemed to grasp this when Verant ran it. A good example is the game pace was slow, and way too simple to be entertaining. Downtime was a *****. But this gave you time to type communications to your team and socialise a little, and it was THIS side of it I actually enjoyed, because I met some good people through it. Soon, I found the guild socialisation was the main thing that I enjoyed. (And I do have a life outside MMO's. I was at uni, playing sport and hanging with mates often enough.), and at higher levels when people needed to be co-ordinated, that slow pace helped.
Also, no auto maps and vision problems based on race so just getting about could be tricky and fun, even if you where high level. Some stuff that seemed so frustrating added challenge that is sorely missing from WoW and others. Good example is being a Human level 20, it was easy to get about the lowbie woods just next to the halfling town. But when night fell, no vision and Level 40+ mobs made it a veritable no go zone unless you were feeling pretty sure. And the long corpse run with no gear made it a real consideration. I ran the gauntlet heaps of times because hugging the boundary was a pretty good chance of clean crossing. Though I did get caught out once and nearly caught more than a few times by mobs on the boundary.
It had a lot of things that in retrospect, made the game a challenge where other games let you have a free lunch. Crossing the mainland as a level 8 is doable, and quite hard if you're just starting the game and want to get to your mates starting zone and you know no one, and have nothing. But when I did it, I proclaimed booyah!
Also, the levels had some atmosphere. And being stuck in first person mode because third person was almost unusable made it more immersive. Stupid but true. Lock in first person to help make wandering sentries more of a challenge rather than something dead obvious. You don't want to turn from the fight, but you don't want something sneaking on your back either.
So challenge really, is what is lacking from a lot of games. But what isn't needed from EQ? Buggy programming, pathing and Ai. poor Ai, fetch/murder quests from here to hades and back, balance and economy issues, predictable combat in normal situations, levels and gear being the 90% requirement to win a straight fight, as opposed to skill. There needs to be some reward for gear and character experience, but skill needs to be more like 50%. (Mind, skillful druids and chanters can make a difference. But warriors? So long as they taunted and hit stuff, they are gear driven.)
Gotta go, but some challenge to the world at large by promotion of good social skills rather than just the fights can help an MMO be different to a single playr game. That's where I find WoW falls down. I never really found it utilised socialisation much.
1. Must be free.
2. Must be fun.
2. -Must not have turn based game play.
2. -Must not have 'buy with real money' items.
3. Must have a whole lot of swords.
4. Character must be able to level cities with a single stroke of the hand.
5. Characters can build cities, but must expect that they can be destroyed.
6. Must keep my interest.
6. -Explosions
6. -Oh noes, three sixes in a row.
7. Customizable character.
7. -Must have an option where character can have blue hair.
8. AI that moderates. Successfully.
2. Must be fun.
2. -Must not have turn based game play.
2. -Must not have 'buy with real money' items.
3. Must have a whole lot of swords.
4. Character must be able to level cities with a single stroke of the hand.
5. Characters can build cities, but must expect that they can be destroyed.
6. Must keep my interest.
6. -Explosions
6. -Oh noes, three sixes in a row.
7. Customizable character.
7. -Must have an option where character can have blue hair.
8. AI that moderates. Successfully.
I'd probably be quite fine with an MMO, where I could:
1) Use a mike to describe the surroundings of the MMO world, and then be presented with it in full 3D glory by today's standards within 2 seconds of the end of the description
2) Be able to invite / ban people I want to play with in a co-operative storytelling environment
3) Have complete control over the gaming world with intuitive, unrestricted, voice controls, which would allow me to shape the world & story being told as I tell it to anyone who is playing with me
4) Being able to jump from one genre to another at will; because if the basic mechanic works, then why shouldn't it be implement across genre lines?
5) Restart a game instantly, if things don't work out and I want to try out something else
6) Rewind or fastforward parts of the game that aren't going to be that interesting
6a) Rewinding is for rechecking important story elements that people might forget
6b) Fastforwarding any boring "ride from point A to point B" scenes
7) Have at my disposal a vast library of story seeds, background information, history of the gaming world and a voice controlled system that allows me to rewrite everything and anything in the gaming world at any time
Now, if I was allowed to do all of that then I would definitely jump over to an MMO, and start telling my stories over there ASAP. However, since the technology / MMO of such magnitude doesn't exist yet, I'll just stick with PnP RGPs for storytelling and if I want to blow stuff up according to a mediocre story I'll play Half-Life 2.
1) Use a mike to describe the surroundings of the MMO world, and then be presented with it in full 3D glory by today's standards within 2 seconds of the end of the description
2) Be able to invite / ban people I want to play with in a co-operative storytelling environment
3) Have complete control over the gaming world with intuitive, unrestricted, voice controls, which would allow me to shape the world & story being told as I tell it to anyone who is playing with me
4) Being able to jump from one genre to another at will; because if the basic mechanic works, then why shouldn't it be implement across genre lines?
5) Restart a game instantly, if things don't work out and I want to try out something else
6) Rewind or fastforward parts of the game that aren't going to be that interesting
6a) Rewinding is for rechecking important story elements that people might forget
6b) Fastforwarding any boring "ride from point A to point B" scenes
7) Have at my disposal a vast library of story seeds, background information, history of the gaming world and a voice controlled system that allows me to rewrite everything and anything in the gaming world at any time
Now, if I was allowed to do all of that then I would definitely jump over to an MMO, and start telling my stories over there ASAP. However, since the technology / MMO of such magnitude doesn't exist yet, I'll just stick with PnP RGPs for storytelling and if I want to blow stuff up according to a mediocre story I'll play Half-Life 2.
A few things I suppose
1.) It's been said, but it makes sense. The game has to be free, one hundred percent, absolutely free. This fact however brings me to number two.
2.) While being free, the game needs to keep up with those that are not. An interesting and engaging story line, yet simple enough to grasp for the average person, because using spells with outrageous names is just terribly confusing.
3.) No leveling system. What you cry and scoff in disbelief? Well, why i enjoy the occasional JRPG from time to time, at the end of the day its all about grinding away at the system to see just how far it goes until you reach the limit and then poof, you're utterly bored with it. You burn out...Now I say no leveling system, but perhaps a reworked system would suffice.
4.) Absolutely everything the man above me has pointed out. I started out with PnP RPG's and though my sources for such have died out, and that my existing characters don't get along with other people,(Honestly when they don't understand some basic quantum mechanics, they all tend to shout and yell "ZOMG GOD MOD." when of course there's a simple way around it...that and it's not like I abuse it, I've given up on fighting) I still enjoy them very much...they enhance the mind on different levels that an MMO never mind another genre just can't reach
1.) It's been said, but it makes sense. The game has to be free, one hundred percent, absolutely free. This fact however brings me to number two.
2.) While being free, the game needs to keep up with those that are not. An interesting and engaging story line, yet simple enough to grasp for the average person, because using spells with outrageous names is just terribly confusing.
3.) No leveling system. What you cry and scoff in disbelief? Well, why i enjoy the occasional JRPG from time to time, at the end of the day its all about grinding away at the system to see just how far it goes until you reach the limit and then poof, you're utterly bored with it. You burn out...Now I say no leveling system, but perhaps a reworked system would suffice.
4.) Absolutely everything the man above me has pointed out. I started out with PnP RPG's and though my sources for such have died out, and that my existing characters don't get along with other people,(Honestly when they don't understand some basic quantum mechanics, they all tend to shout and yell "ZOMG GOD MOD." when of course there's a simple way around it...that and it's not like I abuse it, I've given up on fighting) I still enjoy them very much...they enhance the mind on different levels that an MMO never mind another genre just can't reach
Well a vent server isn't free, the last tiem I checked but a lot of table top rpg systems have free source books online available from the publisher, and there are dice rolling programs online. I'm just suggesting ths because it seems that you want the flexibility of a table top system. The ability to fast forward over boring parts especially does not lend itself to the massive design because everyone may not find the same parts boring as you.Telperion said:
Could you specify what you mean by a "vent server", because I'm unfamiliar with the term?00exmachina said:
Yeah, there's the OGL for D20 and it's companion 3.0/3.5 SRDs. I'm not really aware of anything else of significance out there that's really free. Still, I'm always open for new stuff, so please throw me a link or two. Also note that a system is all well and good, but the setting is equally important and I don't see too many of those floating around for free.00exmachina said:
In any event this direction of conversation is academic, since we are drifting into an area that can no longer be called an MMO, but rather a virtual PnP RPG, which is an altogether different thing.
I think the flexibility of any given tt-RPG is greater than that provided by any present day MMO, so why not ask for it?00exmachina said:
As to the fast forwarding part: well, in a conventional MMO this would probably be correct, but what if I simply state that the current era MMOs are not satisfactory. What if it takes more than tweaking balance issues, gaming costs and finding a suitable balance between side/main/sub quests, grinding vs. storyline?
A better MMO could the be one where the whole MMO world does not in fact conform to a set of commonly established rules. Peoples interests, opinions, tastes and such are so varied that why not simply give a freedom of expression to those willing to put a little extra effort into entertaining not only themselves by their friends as well? If we could create regions within an existing MMO that offer different kinds of experiences, as defined by the community that supports said area & the GM(s) who runs the gaming area, would that not be better? For a true MMO feel the place would obviously need to have automated events and scripts, which could then be allowed to run 24/7, but this is hardly something new and could be built directly into any GM controls. However, when a GM is online he could macro/micro manage any and all parts of his region and provide the people playing in that area the kind of fun they are all interested in.
As previously mentioned, a lack of monthly fee to strong arm me into playing it every hour of every day. Less diminishing returns as you level up- sure, 1-10 are the quick levels but 50-60 should not take 20 times that amount of grinding to get through. A lag-proof server and/or a totally foolproof 'Ages 13/17 and Up' Filter to silence 50% of the idiots.
CoH was my fave MMORPG before I boycotted them, due to it's excellent customization and Sidekick/Exemplar features. Call me crazy but I found it's enemies to have better variety than WoW's too. Also, no beggars, RPers or naked dancers. I might play CoH again someday after I'm done College- it's 'expansion packs' are less extreme, but more numerous and FREE OF CHARGE!
Seriously Blizzard, how many of these things do you think people will shell money out for when they're already paying the monthly fee? Yeah... I know... Infinite so long as you keep raising the Level Cap... damn.
CoH was my fave MMORPG before I boycotted them, due to it's excellent customization and Sidekick/Exemplar features. Call me crazy but I found it's enemies to have better variety than WoW's too. Also, no beggars, RPers or naked dancers. I might play CoH again someday after I'm done College- it's 'expansion packs' are less extreme, but more numerous and FREE OF CHARGE!
Seriously Blizzard, how many of these things do you think people will shell money out for when they're already paying the monthly fee? Yeah... I know... Infinite so long as you keep raising the Level Cap... damn.
The monthly fees of most MMO's are necessary for maintaining a changing and evolving world of immense size, also they need to pay people to constantly moniter the state of the game. I accept these as necessary for the experience.
I agree. Many MMO's do not need monthly fees because they aren't as enormous of games and they don't take as much time or effort to run. Games such as Guild Wars, or World of Warcrap (all proceeds from WoW goes straight to the "I'm Rich Bish" fund for Blizzard employees, as it's obvious they don't spend it on the game itself). Other games, though, do need monthly fees. Otherwise, they couldn't add as much stuff, nor could they monitor anything as well.PedroSteckecilo said:
Someone said earlier in this thread that "you get what you pay for", and I agree. If you want a good Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game, you need to pay.
Has anyone heard of Planetside the only MMO iv been interested in trying to compare to sompeoples comments:- You can work alone, in squads, platoons (3 squads), outfits (more or less a 'Clan/Guild').Its based in the future, no swords and bows (other than a dagger). The idea is you join 1 of 3 factions (if you create an account then you can make up to i think 8 players so you have a chance to play as all 3 factions if you want) and you have to take over bases and towers on I think 7 continents, with the objective of trying to take over the planet. There?s always something to do and has good enough graphics. You can?t build or destroy the landscape. I haven?t played it in awhile so I can?t confirm the fee (yes monthly) or if its changed from what i rember. And yay to signing up just for this post. oh if you want a website http://planetside.station.sony.com/ (made by sony).
i'd rather have a bath in a tub full of exotic looking spiders followed by a romantic meal with piers morgan at a restaurant where the only dish served is my PENIS. if you can think of something worse than that to threaten me with then you may be onto something. but seriously, i'd probably try it if there was a free trial and it was something that didn't involve alternate spellings of the word magic. i think that the agency (pc & ps3 mmo about spys with team fortress style cartoony characters) could be awesome, but it could also quite easily go tits up, as do so many promising games with original ideas.
