Notch Tweets Rage Over Minecraft Party Sexual Assault

[chadachada123]

Coming from someone that has fucking been a victim you have no idea what you're talking about. The emotion pain and the upset isn't even something you can comprehend without going through it.

Just stop.

I think you don't understand one simple concept: I'm not you.

For sexual assault, I would not give a shit in the vast majority of situations, and I know that for a fact.

For rape, I said that I HONESTLY DON'T SEE MYSELF being traumatized in most non-painful situations. Maybe I'd be wrong. There's only one way to know for sure. What I do know is that some victims of rape walk away emotionally pretty much fine, while others like you think that it is unable to comprehend, with everything in between.

Maybe YOU personally suffer extreme emotional pain, but to say I would suffer the same is insulting, and to say that the pain is incomprehensible is unfounded (and insulting to other victims that weren't harmed emotionally to your extent). I've been through a lot of nasty shit, and I see little that could compare emotionally for myself. As in, for me. Not you. Not him. Not them. Me.

 

[chadachada123]

snip

Oh, absolutely, I love a good debate too, and sometimes (most of the time) start off on the strong side as well. I'd mention more about the Kratos thing, but I'd rather not derail the thread further if possible.

I feel like I've mentioned most that I wanted to say about double-standards in this respect anyways, so I'll let everyone else take the wheel there.

 

[chadachada123]

Coming from someone that has fucking been a victim you have no idea what you're talking about. The emotion pain and the upset isn't even something you can comprehend without going through it.

Just stop.

I think you don't understand one simple concept: I'm not you.

For sexual assault, I would not give a shit in the vast majority of situations, and I know that for a fact.

For rape, I said that I HONESTLY DON'T SEE MYSELF being traumatized in most non-painful situations. Maybe I'd be wrong. There's only one way to know for sure. What I do know is that some victims of rape walk away emotionally pretty much fine, while others like you think that it is unable to comprehend, with everything in between.

Maybe YOU personally suffer extreme emotional pain, but to say I would suffer the same is insulting, and to say that the pain is incomprehensible is unfounded (and insulting to other victims that weren't harmed emotionally to your extent). I've been through a lot of nasty shit, and I see little that could compare emotionally for myself. As in, for me. Not you. Not him. Not them. Me.

And, like I said, you have no idea what you're talking about. You're just pulling this out of the air when you admittedly have zero experience with them.

You're ignoring what I said. You are insulting to other victims with your presumption that I would suffer like you would, or that all emotional pain is equal.

I'll repeat this: I don't hold much stock in my sexual organs. I already clarified that I see no real distinction outside of society's forced distinction between being forced to grab a creepy dude's arm and my hand being forced into creepy dude's crotch, so what makes you think that I'd be bothered by being forced to penetrate someone, even if it was unwilling, so long as it was painless?

 

[runic knight]

Coming from someone that has fucking been a victim you have no idea what you're talking about. The emotion pain and the upset isn't even something you can comprehend without going through it.

Just stop.

I think you don't understand one simple concept: I'm not you.

For sexual assault, I would not give a shit in the vast majority of situations, and I know that for a fact.

For rape, I said that I HONESTLY DON'T SEE MYSELF being traumatized in most non-painful situations. Maybe I'd be wrong. There's only one way to know for sure. What I do know is that some victims of rape walk away emotionally pretty much fine, while others like you think that it is unable to comprehend, with everything in between.

Maybe YOU personally suffer extreme emotional pain, but to say I would suffer the same is insulting, and to say that the pain is incomprehensible is unfounded (and insulting to other victims that weren't harmed emotionally to your extent). I've been through a lot of nasty shit, and I see little that could compare emotionally for myself. As in, for me. Not you. Not him. Not them. Me.

And, like I said, you have no idea what you're talking about. You're just pulling this out of the air when you admittedly have zero experience with them.

You're ignoring what I said. You are an insult to other victims with your presumption that I would suffer like you would, or that all emotional pain is equal.

I'll repeat this: I don't hold much stock in my sexual organs. I already clarified that I see no real distinction outside of society's forced distinction between being forced to grab a creepy dude's arm and my hand being forced into creepy dude's crotch, so what makes you think that I'd be bothered by being forced to penetrate someone, even if it was unwilling, so long as it was painless?

You may as well be commenting on the flavour of the moon, for all the authority you have on the subject.

Kinda like how you have no authority on saying that he does or does not know what he is talking about and describing himself and not other people?
Not to sound like an ass here, but stop a moment, take a deep breath and reread his last posts. Sounds like you are getting riled up due to how the topic touches close to home, which is understandable and all, but in doing so, you are ignoring their post.

 

[chadachada123]

You're ignoring what I said. You are an insult to other victims with your presumption that I would suffer like you would, or that all emotional pain is equal.

I'll repeat this: I don't hold much stock in my sexual organs. I already clarified that I see no real distinction outside of society's forced distinction between being forced to grab a creepy dude's arm and my hand being forced into creepy dude's crotch, so what makes you think that I'd be bothered by being forced to penetrate someone, even if it was unwilling, so long as it was painless?

You may as well be commenting on the flavour of the moon, for all the authority you have on the subject.

All I'm saying is that no forced sexual assault or rape could possibly compare to losing my best friend four days after my eighteenth birthday. After that event, I became a shell of a man that has only recently grown back to my relatively normal self.

Since then, no death or bad news has had much of an impact on me at all, and I have received absolutely no reasoning from you as to why rape would be worse TO ME than physical torture or a broken fucking leg (the latter of which I've had).

Are you saying that it's IMPOSSIBLE for someone to not be emotionally bothered by something just because you were? That this person might instead by far more likely to be emotionally bothered by physical pain over forced activity?

 

[runic knight]

Coming from someone that has fucking been a victim you have no idea what you're talking about. The emotion pain and the upset isn't even something you can comprehend without going through it.

Just stop.

I think you don't understand one simple concept: I'm not you.

For sexual assault, I would not give a shit in the vast majority of situations, and I know that for a fact.

For rape, I said that I HONESTLY DON'T SEE MYSELF being traumatized in most non-painful situations. Maybe I'd be wrong. There's only one way to know for sure. What I do know is that some victims of rape walk away emotionally pretty much fine, while others like you think that it is unable to comprehend, with everything in between.

Maybe YOU personally suffer extreme emotional pain, but to say I would suffer the same is insulting, and to say that the pain is incomprehensible is unfounded (and insulting to other victims that weren't harmed emotionally to your extent). I've been through a lot of nasty shit, and I see little that could compare emotionally for myself. As in, for me. Not you. Not him. Not them. Me.

And, like I said, you have no idea what you're talking about. You're just pulling this out of the air when you admittedly have zero experience with them.

You're ignoring what I said. You are an insult to other victims with your presumption that I would suffer like you would, or that all emotional pain is equal.

I'll repeat this: I don't hold much stock in my sexual organs. I already clarified that I see no real distinction outside of society's forced distinction between being forced to grab a creepy dude's arm and my hand being forced into creepy dude's crotch, so what makes you think that I'd be bothered by being forced to penetrate someone, even if it was unwilling, so long as it was painless?

You may as well be commenting on the flavour of the moon, for all the authority you have on the subject.

Kinda like how you have no authority on saying that he does or does not know what he is talking about and describing himself and not other people?
Not to sound like an ass here, but stop a moment, take a deep breath and reread his last posts. Sounds like you are getting riled up due to how the topic touches close to home, which is understandable and all, but in doing so, you are ignoring their post.

He's presuming to know what something is like when he has no way of even fathoming it. How he thinks he feels has no bearing on reality. You can think and imagine all you want, but if you don't have the experience, your words are hollow and empty.

You are not them, have not experienced what events have led to their view on life, their unusual values on self (the "no stock in their sexual organs" bit), their own trauma nor their own reactions to them. How can you say he is wrong about describing himself, when at best his response has been "I don't think that would affect me the same way", and he admits he doesn't know for certain anyways. Sorry, but it seems you are almost saying that regardless the situation, the individual characteristics of his personality or anything else, he would be affected in a similar fashion as you.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

To be honest, a part of this sounds fishy to me. Almost like the girl is fabricating the whole thing. BUT I ONLY SAY THAT BECAUSE... well... Who just walks away after a creepy dude puts his dick on you? NO NO, who let's themselves be in that situation?

I'm sure that there's a bunch of people who could jump all over me for what I just said. But honestly? It's really a whole lot less about what I just said, and a whole lot more of "WHY?!" This whole thing's just bizarre.

Actually it's a pretty easy scenario to see play out. It goes as follows:

1. The guy says his initial line after talking to her for a bit.

2. She looks at him funny says, "Yeah... no" walks away and pulls out her phone to text someone or check something on the Internet, but above all to indicate to said guy that the conversation is OVER.

3. He sees this as a challenge, walks over with his dick pulled out while she is looking at the phone not him.

4. He grabs her free hand and pulls it down and asked, "Is this big enough?"

5. She pulls her hand away. Figures out what she touched and walks the hell away with a thousand things going through her brain.

6. After clearing the room and collecting herself for a minute she goes to see a security guard, who blows her off.


As for why the guy would do it? He was drunk and wanted to show what a man he was. So yep, it strikes me as a very believable story and something that I hope gets addressed better at PAX in the future because this sort of behavior has no place in gamer culture.

That's if that is the truth... she admitted to being quite drunk... to the point where her memory is blurred. She could have led him on or there could have been a lot more dialogue involved! We are always so quick to beleive a bias, one-sided story...

Don't get me wrong, if that is what happened then it sucks... it sure does... but this is why we have courts and judges... so they can veiw all of the evidence, from all parties, and make a verdict.
Sounds to me like the guy was insecure, drunk and after a conversation alone with a girl, who sounded sympathetic and not the usual rejecting type he was used to, he misread the situation and made a stupid decision.
The fact that he didn't try and follow up on this the rest of the night meant that he obviously realised the error, and that the whole thing wasn't mallicious.

Sexual assault covers different areas... this, from what I can tell, would be groping... or inappropriate touching, and doesn't sound like it was mallicious, so probably wouldn't count in the long run.

She should view it as drunken error on both sides, and get on with her life being thankful that she wasn't actually attacked, or attempted to be raped!

 

[Azuaron]

"Then he grabbed my free wrist and put it on his crotch and asked 'Is this big enough?'"

Holy shit, my sides.

Seriously? Your response to sexual assault is "that's hilarious"?

I think I'm going to instead believe that you just got back from boxing, and quoted that by accident.

Seriously? Is this one of those topics where nothing is funny ever? I resent your inflated sense of morality and I resent your attempt to force everyone else to be just as much a tightwad as you.

Azuaron finds it hilarious that some dickwad thought it would be a good idea to force a girl to grab his small cock through his pants. Strictly speaking, it's very sad that such dumbasses actually populate this earth. In fact, Earth is a very sad place to live for that reason. Some people address this sadness by finding things to laugh at. Then there are people like you, who choose to deal with it by being... what? Tighwads. Please understand that laughing at stupidity is a completely appropriate response.

Decent article, otherwise. I wonder what sway notch will have in metering out discipline on that lazy security guard.

First of all, I'm Azuaron, he's Rocklobster99.

Secondly, you have no idea about my sense of morality or my sense of humor, and are making gross generalizations about my entire personality.

So let me spell it out for you: The dickwolves comic? Hilarious. But the punchline wasn't, "Guy gets raped," the punchline was, "Look at how ridiculous and callous players are in MMOs." Here the "punchline" is... he made her touch his dick? She's traumatized and he needs to be jailed for the next five to ten years and permanently put on the sex offenders registry?

 

[Fasckira]

Care to elaborate on that nugget of supposed revelation?

Off-topic, but just a quick point to say I love this turn of phrase. I plan to use it in conversation at some point today (though I appreciate this will require me to try and get into a conflicting discussion with someone but Ill try!).

 

[Entitled]

I do feel as though there's a bit of a double-standard, here, though. If a drunk woman grabbed a guy's hand and shoved it into her crotch or boobs, he'd get the same response from the security guard but would almost certainly not get a news story or support from Notch himself, even if he was just as hurt.

Time till the high-horse "it's different, but there is no double-standard!!!111one" oxymoron people quote you: 3, 2, 1, GO!

Not gonna, lie if some chick was talking about how insecure she is about her vag, and then put my hand down her pants, and showed me it, I'd love it. That's because, and I cannot stress this enough, things are different in life depending on your gender. You can accept it, or try to make up some bullshit, but flip the genders, and ask yourself if this would have got any attention beyond "high five, dude" and "lucky bastard". Too bad all the BS-ing in the world won't change shit.

The problem with that is, that it's based on the idea that sexual assault is just a social construct, and therefore a matter of subjective morality.

Unless you want to make up some pseudoscientific hypothesis about how men are biologically haywired to shrug off sexual assault while women aren't, it basically means that sexual assault on men is OK, as long as culture teaches them that it is OK. In other words, women only receive emotional pain from sexual assault because they are taught to consider it a morally unacceptable attack on their identity.

If sexual assault is a matter of subjective morality, that can be ignored in some cases where the "victim" doesn't happen to feel victimized for cultural reasons, then the logical course of action to eliminate the dangers of sexual assault, would be to condition women that sexual assault is no big deal as well, so we could all live in a culture where we get equally raped, and equally not worrying about it.

 

[chadachada123]

I do feel as though there's a bit of a double-standard, here, though. If a drunk woman grabbed a guy's hand and shoved it into her crotch or boobs, he'd get the same response from the security guard but would almost certainly not get a news story or support from Notch himself, even if he was just as hurt.

Time till the high-horse "it's different, but there is no double-standard!!!111one" oxymoron people quote you: 3, 2, 1, GO!

Not gonna, lie if some chick was talking about how insecure she is about her vag, and then put my hand down her pants, and showed me it, I'd love it. That's because, and I cannot stress this enough, things are different in life depending on your gender. You can accept it, or try to make up some bullshit, but flip the genders, and ask yourself if this would have got any attention beyond "high five, dude" and "lucky bastard". Too bad all the BS-ing in the world won't change shit.

The problem with that is, that it's based on the idea that sexual assault is just a social construct, and therefore a matter of subjective morality.

Unless you want to make up some pseudoscientific hypothesis about how men are biologically haywired to shrug off sexual assault while women aren't, it basically means that sexual assault on men is OK, as long as culture teaches them that it is OK. In other words, women only receive emotional pain from sexual assault because they are taught to consider it a morally unacceptable attack on their identity.

If sexual assault is a matter of subjective morality, that can be ignored in some cases where the "victim" doesn't happen to feel victimized for cultural reasons, then the logical course of action to eliminate the dangers of sexual assault, would be to condition women that sexual assault is no big deal as well, so we could all live in a culture where we get equally raped, and equally not worrying about it.

Your problem is that you assume that sexual assault is intrinsically different from normal assault. You also fail to explain how sexual assault is equivalent to a 'social construct' here. The assault isn't a social construct, the *pain felt* is the construction of society, with women feeling more pain than men for cases like this.

Your conclusion doesn't follow your premise. We wouldn't live in a culture where we got equally sexually assaulted, we would live in a culture that didn't distinguish between assault (illegal) and sexual assault (illegal), both of which are, in the proposed model, not worth worrying about but ARE still illegal and worthy of legal punishment (or a punch to the face, to quote myself).

TL;DR: You don't need to feel traumatized to be a victim, and if the acts are still kept illegal, why in the hell wouldn't we want the average victim to not be traumatized if most of their traumatization is because of society's teachings to begin with?

 

[Slayer_2]

The problem with that is, that it's based on the idea that sexual assault is just a social construct, and therefore a matter of subjective morality.

Unless you want to make up some pseudoscientific hypothesis about how men are biologically haywired to shrug off sexual assault while women aren't, it basically means that sexual assault on men is OK, as long as culture teaches them that it is OK. In other words, women only receive emotional pain from sexual assault because they are taught to consider it a morally unacceptable attack on their identity.

If sexual assault is a matter of subjective morality, that can be ignored in some cases where the "victim" doesn't happen to feel victimized for cultural reasons, then the logical course of action to eliminate the dangers of sexual assault, would be to condition women that sexual assault is no big deal as well, so we could all live in a culture where we get equally raped, and equally not worrying about it.

And isn't it partially a social construct? The same way "murder is bad" is also a social construct.

I've been in many situations that, if genders were reversed, would have been seen as sexual assault. Rape is a bit extreme, but things like groping, flashing, pulling off my pants with no warning at all, etc. If I showed my junk off to some random girls, I don't think they'd be happy, when I get flashed by girls I think it's awesome. Girls have grabbed my hand and put it on their crotch a few times, if I did that with a girl I just met, I'd be taking quite the risk, and likely be labelled a rapist, pervert or something similar.

Since having a vagina doesn't make you mentally weaker, you could argue that it is a social construct, and that women could theoretically be conditioned over decades to handle unwanted sexual advances differently. However, I wish you good luck on such an endeavor, since not only will you be labelled a "rape supporter" (and receive a myriad of other insults), but you will likely also be told that you are ignorant, misogynistic, and even psychopathic for such ideas. Forgive me if I'm rambling, it's late and I am quite tired. Anyhow, such talk is only inviting a lot of rage.

 

[BoredAussieGamer]

Well, if she was trying to be "one of the guys" the proper response to that question wouldn't been "No, mine is bigger.".

As serious a matter this is, that made me laugh.