Obama administration: "Piracy is flat, unadulterated theft"

[thedeathscythe]

No crap, that's why it's called piracy [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/piracy]...

This one? "The unauthorized duplication of goods protected by intellectual property law (e.g. copying software unlawfully)" Number 3? Never says it's theft. It's duplication, not theft. I can agree that it is theft in a way, but it's not necessarily the same, it's data and it's just...hard to govern data, it's hard in general to make rules for the internet, let alone enforce them. I'd kinda rather police be used to catch pedophiles, murderers, terrorists, get FBI to work on that and stuff too. I could care less if they find a 15 year old who's downloading the Dark Knight.

Now, piracy for money, aka, bootleg selling and stuff, isn't right, making money off of it. But just piracy in and of itself being theft? It's kinda cloudy IMO.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Are you going to agree that it's wrong, if nothing else?

Personally, I define "theft" as "acquiring items being sold without paying for them", ie. true copyright infringement. Tell me that it isn't against the spirit of the law.

I will agree that in certain cases it might not be the best course of action. However, to call it wrong? No.

Also, that's not theft. Theft already has a definition and it works quite well. Your definition is to vague. What if the item that was being sold was given to a person by the owner of the store. Is that still theft?

 

[no oneder]

Well, for one, people aren't getting paid for their copyright properties, that's for sure. Like less paid musicians and such. For two, it's against the law, ever heard of it? And for three, something or other.

Prove they would've gotten paid in the absence of piracy. Law is not absolute. Bananas.

You truly are a cynical skeptic bastard. There is no prove needed, it's right there in front of you, or are you that blind to not see? Open your eyes dammit! And of course law is absolute! Or do you live in the Old West?

Laws change every day. That perpetual state of shift is proof enough that law is not absolute.

Or are you still living in luxury on the backs of hundreds of negros?

You're taking your arguments out of context. Law changes, but for all the time we've been alive, copyright laws have been the same (or about to change). You can't say that just because law "shifts" and "isn't absolute" it's okay to blatantly steal another persons ideas.
It may shift, but it's law. Or you're trying to say that because in the future it'll be legal you're doing it now?
Im'ma wrap it up, because clearly this is like talking to a wall that is drowning in it's own verbal diarrhea.

Edit: Besides, all your points were just made up by criminals so they can defend themselves in court.

 

[Italian Stalion]

Esh I believe piracy should just be ignored, the majority of people who pirate games are people who wouldn't buy the game anyway. People who pirate games don't have access to the online portion of the game, its kinda of more like an extended demo, plus with the increasing prices of video games (60$=wtf!?) I don't blame them. annnnnnnnnnnd when you pirate something your not taking it away from someone else so its kind of bad, but not nearly as bad as actually stealing.

 

[gurall200]

not surprising really, he's a politician, people are pirating games, economy is not good, he wants to keep his job in 2012, ergo, he hates piracy.

as for piracy itself, please see this penny arcade comic
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/2/19/

 

[SirPumpkinLongshanks]

I don't own a current gen console. I don't think there's enough worthwhile content to warrant a purchase. My experience with modern gaming has been entirely facilitated through friends. Because I was allowed to borrow their consoles I have played, for free, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, God of War III, Uncharted 2, Arkham Asylum, and a few more, sometimes to the point where I had 1000 achievement points or a platinum trophy.

As a result there are games I will never buy. Fallout 3, for example. God of War III and Arkham Asylum won't even be on my radar until they've fallen to $30 or below. Mass Effect has been out long enough it barely matters whether I purchase it or I don't (but I will so long as my honey keeps her 360). It's exactly the same result as if I had pirated every one of these games. The rental stores didn't get a cut, the used market didn't see a dime, and the publishers have no idea I exist. How is it better just because it's legal?

Our thinking on copyright and intellectual property needs to change with technology. Piracy is a problem as it is, yes, but guilting consumers isn't doing any good and no law will be able to stop it without punishing everyone equally. Frankly if they don't want the pirates to become the good guys they're going about things the wrong way.

I don't trust our current batch of politicians to act sensibly nor do I expect major corporations to leave our freedoms intact. I rather get the impression that they find civil liberties burdensome and would promptly stamp them out if nothing stood in their way. While I sympathize with anyone who's trying to guard their work in the current climate, they can't be blamed for protecting their livelihood, about the only way to come out on top is to offer something better than the pirates can at a price which makes piracy seem inconvenient. Look at Steam-the sales they have almost make piracy obsolete. Odd as it sounds there are games I'd never pirate that I'd pay a couple dollars for. We've already witnessed the power of this model-it brought a game studio back from the brink. They have the right idea.

Regarding physical media, I wonder why nobody has tried messing with the pricing models? I've always bought my own games, even when I was a child, but I almost always bought used because new games were fairly expensive. The PSone era was an exception because so many games came out for around $40 dollars and while that could still be a little rough on my wallet the games back then were too good to pass up. That was the sweet spot; I never bought used if I could get a new copy for that price or less. Similarly I'll question whether a DVD is worth $20 but I won't bat an eye if it's $10 or $15.

The legalities need to be ironed out just so we have a code of conduct that's agreed upon but talk of what's right-or-wrong doesn't change anything. "It's wrong" hasn't and won't stop pirates. Punishing the consumer, criminal or not, has done nothing to endear corporations to the masses. If they want things to change they need to meet us in the middle. Lower prices, provide a better value (especially you, games-I don't pay $60 because I'm not even getting what I got for $40 two generations ago), attach services to the sale of new items, etc. The new models may not yield the mega-profits of the old ones but there's no reason music, movies, anime, and games can't survive within a healthy margin. If the current producers aren't willing to do that they'll die and something else will take their place. It seems businessmen love capitalism until they're actually at risk of being snuffed out.

 

[ajb924]

There's an XKCD comic about this somewhere...
I don't feel like finding it though. But, I hate this. I only download anime and the like, and if America would release it in a timely matter for a decent price, I'd pay for it. But they don't, so fuck them.

 

[Chewster]

Letting the fallacy that theft and copyright infringement are essentially the same stand unquestioned, in spite of the facts that there is nothing stolen when copyright is infringed and each unauthorized copy cannot even be attributed to a sale lost (people who pirate might have no money in the first place, might never have even considered buying the product if they couldn't pirate, etc) while theft is taking somebody else's property away from them, is therefore injurious to a reasoned defence of consumer rights and something we should not let slide because "in essence, they're the same". They are not.

Point of fact: I'd say that persecuting people who download media illegally will hurt these big special-interest groups in more then one way. What of sampling culture? What of people who try things before they buy? I'd say that the only people who do any real harm through piracy are those who do it and never buy anything. I'd say many are not like that as many do not have the cash to impulsively buy media on a whim and hope it suits their tastes.

This whole farce hurts everyone and these increasingly absurd copyright laws will hurt creativity and free expression and stifle people's ability to be exposed to new types of media, which is the opposite of what they want, I would think.

Piracy =/= theft and anyone who says it is has a fundamental misunderstanding about both.

 

[superbatranger]

Piracy is not theft, its copyright infringement.

THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!

I really wish someone who actually understood technology was in power. Instead we have people who haven't caught up with technology and are talking about things they have no clue about. They're only sources of info being the corporations and they're not exactly known as friendly entities spreading truth.

I see it as something that is similar to theft. It's not theft in the sense that you walk into a store and shoplift a game, for example. It's theft in the sense that those pirated copies cost the company potential earnings, i.e. Company X releases Game Y at 50 dollars. They sell 500,000 copies. With that, they're making 25 million dollars in sales. Now let's say a customer copies it, puts it up on the internet and 10,000 people download it. That comes out to be 500,000 dollars in lost sales. This doesn't mean that it's taken out of what the company earned. They still made 25 million dollars. In other words, the 500,000 dollars weren't stolen from the 25 million. The 500,000 is what they could have earned if those 10,000 people purchased the game instead of pirating it. But, because that didn't happen, the company loses potential money, and that could be considered to be related to theft in a way.

 

[3dfx]

Piracy will exist no matter how many laws and rules they put in place. The US is not the world police.

 

[DarkDain]

Whats this thread about? o.o people are trying to justify their wrong doings ?? Say it aint so!

 

[shufflemonkey16]

You, sir, should look into being a libertarian.

 

[Jack Nettle]

Heh.. If only developers could figure out a fool proof way of keeping their products of the pirating market. Of course, that's near impossible, but at least they'd stop QQing about it.

OT: They shouldn't be focusing on piracy and should be focusing on other conflicts that are occurring in America. There will always be piracy, it doesn't matter what they try to do. Just like racism, unfortunately, it will always remain.

 

[Legendsmith]

If piracy is considered theft then it should carry the exact same penalties as shoplifting, and the RIAA, MPAA, and the courts should be punished for violating the 8th amendment.

The ACTA is going to destroy the Internet.

This. It should carry similar penalties to walking out of a shop with game/music/movie discs in your jacket (or whatever you use to hide your theft).
The thing is, everyone is guilty of piracy because everyone shares music. There are so many ways that it happens without the persons involved even realising it. If I have a CD and I lend it to a friend and he copies it to his iTunes (or whatever) then that's piracy. Should I be fined a huge sum? I don't think so it's just once disc. I'm pretty sure the thousands of people who have done this exact same thing will agree with me.

back to the next, I have read that leaked document "Consolidated Text - Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement."
If that goes though it gives the governments far too much power. They can take pretty much any action that doesn't "derogate from any other agreements" and infringe on any other laws.
Here is something from "Article 2.3 Other Remedies" of the trade agreement:

2. Each party shall futher provide that its judicial authorities shall have the authority to order that materials and implements the predominant use of which has been the manufacture or creation of pirated or counterfeit goods be, without undue delay and without any compensation of any sort, destroyed or disposed of outside the channels of commerce in such a manner as to minimise the risks of further infringements.
A note here, when they say counterfeit it is my beileif that they are referring to goods that have had a trademark put on them when they are not in fact make my the owner of that trademark

Anyway, if I'm reading this right, then doesn't it mean that our governments will have the right to destroy our PC if we torrent/burn/rip games, movies or music?

Here's another part from the section that specifically deals with the "digital environment."

Adequate legal protection shall be provided, in appropriate cases, at least against:

(b) the manufacture, importation, or distribution [US: of, or offer to distribute, a device or product, that circumvents and effective technological measure and is either:] of a device that has the predominant function of circumventing an effective technological measure that is any of the following:

(i)Marketed for the purpose of circumventing an effective technological measure;

(ii)primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing an effective technological measure; or;

(iii)has only limited commercially significant purpose other than circumventing an effective technological measure.

I'm not sure, but how much of online file sharing services does that count, but im sure that Pirate bay and all the other online torrent tracker sites will somehow fall under it.
This may also cover the development of torrent software.

 

[Romidude]

*Looks at harddrive contents* TACTICAL NUKE INBOUND!

*EDIT* Actually it probably wont go through as it infringes on amendments(As far as I know being Canadian) AND BASIC FUCKING HUMAN RIGHTS.

 

[Deshin]

*Looks at harddrive contents* TACTICAL NUKE INBOUND!

*EDIT* Actually it probably wont go through as it infringes on amendments(As far as I know being Canadian) AND BASIC FUCKING HUMAN RIGHTS.

We have no human rights, what we have is a list of temporary privilages that can be revoked at any time our owners see fit; and every year the list of temporary privilages gets smaller and smaller.

(I miss Carlin)