Okay it's official: I fucking HATE "Old World Blues"

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theultimateend

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Requia said:
I can't speak to the bugs you've seen, the only one I noticed was where the Sink decides to stop restocking ammo (not that it would help much if it remembered). But Bethesda *always* sucks at the actual RPG mechanics, they get judged on their world design and writing alone for some reason.
Obsidian made New Vegas, Not Bethesda.
 

Requia

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Altorin said:
Requia said:
Vern5 said:
Requia said:
Hrm, so why did Bethesda go around trumpeting that they'd be making the DLC instead of Obsidian back before launch? I guess plans change, and this is Obsidian's fuckup.
Bethesda originally planned to do the DLC? That's the first I've ever heard of that.

And let's be fair to Obsidian; they hardly fucked up anything. Fallout New Vegas may not be perfect but its damn good overall and the same goes for its DLC.
The other three yes, but my willingness to overlook flaws doesn't extend to borderline unplayablity. Doing OWB as a level 20 or so guns character can pretty much only be accomplished by maxing out your inventory weight with ammo (hardcore limit) in order to deal with the crappy DT/HP level scaling.
I'm not sure. is OWB really harder then Lonesome Road? cause I on a whim wandered into the divide with a level 3 explosives character and managed to get almost all the way to the end (near the end you're attacked by 3 deathclaws, and even though by that time I'd grown to about level 12, there was just mathematically no way I could kill 3 of them at once).

I do remember wandering into OWB with a relatively low level stealth/guns character and having trouble some, but none of my other characters had any sort of issue. The benefits of retrofitting the sink make the game silly in terms of easy I found.

all on normal-nonHC
Lonesome road level scales better. You won't have any trouble fighting enemies there at level 30+, OWB enemies however get ludicrously high DT/HP as time goes on, you can still kill them with bullet spam, but there's not enough bullets in OWB to finish it. As far as I can tell they didn't playtest a lot of perfectly acceptable builds from the core game in it, and just assumed that the player would be statted for energy weapons.
 

Vern5

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Requia said:
Level scaling. As you level up the enemies take more and more bullets to kill.
...

I'm aware of what level-scaling is. I'm just saying that its not an issue. OWB isn't hard. Any difficulty is perceived as it was not built to be impossible. Therefore, any problems with difficulty are on the user's end, usually as the result of a character that is not built well or a lack of ability on the player's part.
 

Zetatrain

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uchytjes said:
3. Damage/hit points

I know EXACTLY where you are coming from. I tried going in with the best guns, and perked out to boot and ended up getting my ass handed to me. I advise against the use of ANY guns. If you want to get the most enjoyment out of the DLC, I recommend the Saturnite fist melee weapon and the upgraded "superheated" fist once you get the toaster working. Go punch stuff in the face, it really is the best way to go about it. Hell, I even remember going around and hitting the Cazadoeres and nightstalkers with the thing and it working wonders.
Haven't played it yet, but my character only uses guns, so does that mean I'm pretty much screwed?
 

Requia

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Vern5 said:
Requia said:
Level scaling. As you level up the enemies take more and more bullets to kill.
...

I'm aware of what level-scaling is. I'm just saying that its not an issue. OWB isn't hard. Any difficulty is perceived as it was not built to be impossible. Therefore, any problems with difficulty are on the user's end, usually as the result of a character that is not built well or a lack of ability on the player's part.
It wasn't built to be anything, they just didn't playtest. My character builds are fully capable of beating the game without armor or healing items, it's *only* in OWB that there's a problem.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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Ftaghn To You Too said:
amaranth_dru said:
Once again, Obsidian strikes. For some reason people praise the hell out of Obsidian's bug ridden shit they call games.
Better writing, gameplay, and design than anything Bethesda has made in a decade. It also had much fewer glitches, in my copy!

I don't even know why Bethesda is still around.

Edit: in retrospect, that was too harsh. Bethesda is still one of the great hopes of the industry. They've just strayed from the path of righteousness in the last few years.
Fallout 3 never crashed during a save for me.
New Vegas crashed horribly during regular gameplay as well as during autosaves or quick saves.
KOTOR 2 was missing half the story that fans later modded back into the game for parts to make sense.
Need I mention Alpha Protocol?
Neverwinter Nights 2?
Dungeon Siege 3?
Obsidian is good at making bad games that should have been tested better.
I've had minor bugs in Beth games but nothing game breaking bad, so until they come out with a game that doesn't take fanbased tweaks to run correctly, I'll stick to not having a high opinion of Obsidian.
 

My name is Fiction

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BloatedGuppy said:
My name is Fiction said:
The humor was just fine to me, didn't see the slutty robot loli coming. Altho the teddy bear referencing was a good hint. With all the free perks the game gave you at the start and the skill chalenges leading to awesome loot not sure how it could be dificult. Just equip a paladin toaster and you are ready to smash some robot heads. But if you focused into non-combats first early on which is the best course of action you could have missed out on the new gear. I'll just guess you didn't build vary well. I did fine Lv30. Perhaps you also built 30 points in resistance in Darksouls too. Oh god thats soo aweful.
Well, I'm level 46 now, having just finished it this evening, so I was low to mid 40's for the run of the DLC. I only have two skills below 70 and only 3-4 below 90 at this point. I'm a more than capable combat character.

I'd blame the HP sponging on my mod(s), perhaps Project Nevada, but I had absolutely no issues whatsoever with Dead Money or Honest Hearts (aside from White Legs running around with Anti Material Rifles...they still died in one shot, so no matter). I'm not even joking about the 10+ shots from my heaviest gun. The modded up dog mini-gun needed three CLIPS to kill a run of the mill robot or Nightstalker.

And no, I did not stack resistances in Dark Souls. I was a high Faith Cleric using a divine weapon.
Lonesome road has deathclaws that have more health and damage than alphas but no DT. The mods are probably the source of blame. If you have more than 1 changing difficulty it could get painful. I got a +5 dragons tooth and can one shot some bosses at lv 97. will try a magic pvp charecter for trolling tho. Get that mimic hat and that spell to turn into pottery.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Vern5 said:
...or a lack of ability on the player's part.
You can't be serious.

We're talking about New Vegas, right? You could tie a gerbil to the keyboard and it would pass the ability threshold required to play the game.
 

Golden_Ocelot

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One word by OWB is so hard... It's where the nightmares come from. Little ones, big ones, special ones, many of them grouped together in tight corridors. Especially after the patch that reduced the damage they do with hits, but speeds up their poison damage to warp speed...


Cazadors.



... *curls up in a corner and starts crying*


Everything else was pretty awesome though! I was laughing my butt off most the time, when i wasnt finding new corners to cry in.
 

Ftaghn To You Too

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amaranth_dru said:
Ftaghn To You Too said:
amaranth_dru said:
Once again, Obsidian strikes. For some reason people praise the hell out of Obsidian's bug ridden shit they call games.
Better writing, gameplay, and design than anything Bethesda has made in a decade. It also had much fewer glitches, in my copy!

I don't even know why Bethesda is still around.

Edit: in retrospect, that was too harsh. Bethesda is still one of the great hopes of the industry. They've just strayed from the path of righteousness in the last few years.
Fallout 3 never crashed during a save for me.
New Vegas crashed horribly during regular gameplay as well as during autosaves or quick saves.
KOTOR 2 was missing half the story that fans later modded back into the game for parts to make sense.
Need I mention Alpha Protocol?
Neverwinter Nights 2?
Dungeon Siege 3?
Obsidian is good at making bad games that should have been tested better.
I've had minor bugs in Beth games but nothing game breaking bad, so until they come out with a game that doesn't take fanbased tweaks to run correctly, I'll stick to not having a high opinion of Obsidian.

Fallout 3 crashed all the damn time for me. Never had much trouble with New Vegas. The glitches I did encounter were mainly quests breaking each other that wouldn't have been glitches if they hadn't been forced to push the game out in a year. KOTOR was better in every way than KOTOR 1 except the end, which again was because the publisher forced it out. Haven't played any of the other games, so I can't comment on them.

Are you kidding me with Bethesda not releasing games that need fanbase tweaking? Bethesda's motto is release the game and let the mod community fix it and make it good. Their writing has been awful lately, their games are glitchy as shit and get more simple and dumbed down with every installment, and they still get praised for... reasons? Obsidian is a company that's known for its great writing and actually improving on games, adding depth in complexity. Their main issue is signing on with publishers that make them release their games too early and then screw them over after the game is released.
 

karma9308

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I think it's personal opinion, though you never claimed it was anything but. Personally I loved the humor of the DLC, sure after you 100% the DLC, the whole thing starts to get kinda old, but that may be more my fault for going through it too quickly. Also, the characters. The Brains are pretty damn awesome (especially if you finish all their quests and dialogue), but the sink personalities were probably what I loved most and make references to with other people.

The bugs are something I've never heard anyone experiencing in OWB. I've played that DLC several times on different platforms no less! I've had many game breaking bugs in NV, but OWB has always been a smooth experience for me. Sorry to hear about that though. Maybe it was the mods but I don't remember having any problems with level scaling in OWB either, maybe because I was using different guns? I did have trouble with that super fly though, fuck that thing.

I do have to ask though, which of the other two are your favorite?
 

Vern5

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BloatedGuppy said:
Vern5 said:
...or a lack of ability on the player's part.
You can't be serious.

We're talking about New Vegas, right? You could tie a gerbil to the keyboard and it would pass the ability threshold required to play the game.
Completely serious. Nothing surprises me anymore. I just took a cursory search of Old World Blues and its difficulty. There are quite a few threads about it. Half of them are complaining about how hard it is at any level. The other half is from players telling the first half to sack up.

You're right, of course. New Vegas isn't hard and Old World Blues is no different.
 

Arakasi

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I take issue with several of your concerns.

1. The humor is good, and the storytelling is, as far as I am concerned, brilliant for a videogame.
2. I never experienced any bugs aside from what is normal for New Vegas. Then again, I haven't yet had the opportunity to play it on a PC, but it should be noted that playing any Bethesda game (or any game that uses that specific Bethesda engine) on a PC, especially in the realm of Fallout, is a poor idea, unless you are looking to mod.
3. I was playing vanilla (on a console) with a guns-based character who had an anti-mat rifle on normal, and I was 1-hit killing Lobotomies with a head shot. The robots are very powerful, yes, but that's part of the survival-fun of it. I never really had a problem with ammo either, I was good at recycling, hunting lobotomies for ammo, scavenging and occasionally waiting a few days to purchase ammo from The Sink. I did occasionally have to use other weapons for their effects against the robo-scorpions, but that was nice, added variety to my usually gun-only character. TBH I found Point-Lookout for FO3 to be much more difficult.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Vern5 said:
You're right, of course. New Vegas isn't hard and Old World Blues is no different.
No, it's not hard. It's tedious and irritating and borderline broken in terms of design, but it's not "too hard". I have a hard time saying any game is "too hard", let alone one with mods and 5.5 difficulty levels.

Arakasi said:
The robots are very powerful, yes, but that's part of the survival-fun of it.
Your definition of "survival fun" and mine differ, I'm sad to say.
 

AlbertoDeSanta

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I'm quite new to F:NV, having only played it for 27 hours. I can say, however, that I've played 2 DLCs. Old World Blues, and Dead Money. I preferred Dead Money. To me it seemed more reminiscent of F:NV with a story told of Helpless people in situations they have limited chance to escape from; also represented by your character whom is stripped of all non-quest item equipment and left to the devices of Elijah and the companions with limited chance of escape. I loved this feeling. Old World Blues, however, gave you all your equipment and let you do anything you wanted in this place, with limited fear of punishment and more sense of reward. I didn't like it as much. The charm in Dead Money was because of the Speakers. It was because you were at risk of dying to the very air you breathed. It brought a different feeling, whilst presenting a story that was great and the constant fear of death. Many in this thread have said they WON'T play it again. I for one, would love to go back to the Sierra Madre, and head back into it's depths and begin again.
 

Dreadman75

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Sir Thomas Sean Connery said:
The humor is utterly subjective. I found it funny as hell. You didn't. It isn't an objective complaint.

As for the bugs, also pretty subjective. I went through the whole DLC 3 times without a crash and only VERY minor clipping problems.

In terms of the enemy health, I agree to some extent that they tend to sponge a bit too much, but what you described is crazy. I think you installed a mod or modified your damage with console commands or something. Also, finding the right weapon is extremely important. If the Anti-Mat rifle isn't working, try something else. Also, if an enemy doesn't have armor, for fucks sake don't use AP rounds. They lose a lot of damage on unarmored targets
Vern5 said:
I, personally, preferred the more reflective and oppressive tone of Dead Money.
Holy shit! Another person who thought Dead Money was great!

You have made me very happy.
Huh. There are more people who liked Dead Money than I thought. I, personally, liked Dead Money as well. The atmosphere and isolation really set a good mood for the story of the Sierra Madre.

OT: I play a modded game so my experience may have differed from the OP's for different reasons. Using FOOK and New Vegas Enhanced Content; with their various error corrections and fixes made the enemies more or less an appropriate challenge for my current level. But I also went into OWB around level 17 or so. Why? Because that's the minimum level requirement, and I want all the cool shit that comes with the story. I love Elijah's advanced LAER, it's one of my favorite weapons despite being fragile as hell.
 

Frostbite3789

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Lucem712 said:
It's by far my favourite, though it completely kicked my ass. But, never again, NEVER AGAIN, will I play Dead Money. Fuck that DLC, seriously. I love the story and the characters, I kind of like the atmosphere but FUCK some of the mechanics in that. I am referring specifically to the 'Bomb Collar'. Nothing is more annoying than walking around looking out for ghosts and bam, rapid beeping and head EXPLOSION.

I'm sorry...I'm...not bitter, or anything...-cough-
And who can forget, "SINCLAIR? SINCLAIR WHERE ARE YOU? SINCLAIR?! I'M SCARED SINCLAIR!"?
 

kingthrall

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Quality input as always, thrall. I appreciate you pulling yourself off Myth 2 long enough to view my thread and insult me.[/quote]

Put it this way, Your complaining the game is too hard for DLC. I object the stupidity of your argument because of the timing of old world blues release date was made for fans of the game I.M.O who wanted a challenge. So you arguing that the game was too hard was probably their intention in the first place.

If you simply had of beaten the game and gone pfft this was easier than being with liam neeson killing radroaches in FO3 then it would of been a lot worse response from the community as a whole. Crashing and bugs are unfortunate but nearly every AAA game has had bugs left right center. It doesn't make it right but your singeing it out as some shocking news.

I am sure you can always reduce the difficulty to timid or whatever the options bar says if your finding the game too difficult.
 

solemnwar

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Frostbite3789 said:
Lucem712 said:
It's by far my favourite, though it completely kicked my ass. But, never again, NEVER AGAIN, will I play Dead Money. Fuck that DLC, seriously. I love the story and the characters, I kind of like the atmosphere but FUCK some of the mechanics in that. I am referring specifically to the 'Bomb Collar'. Nothing is more annoying than walking around looking out for ghosts and bam, rapid beeping and head EXPLOSION.

I'm sorry...I'm...not bitter, or anything...-cough-
And who can forget, "SINCLAIR? SINCLAIR WHERE ARE YOU? SINCLAIR?! I'M SCARED SINCLAIR!"?
^^^ Thiiiis
My sister did Dead Money before I did, and she complained about that. I didn't get it until I reached that point. HURRGHLSFJ.


OT: Old World Blues is the only reason I like Fallout: New Vegas as much as I do. I LOVED Old World Blues, it was so fantastic. Faaar better than Honest Hearts, which basically played like the Mojave with some more cliffs (the Mojave is the worst part of FO:NV, imo) and it didn't really feel like it added anything. Dead Money was alright the second time round I played it but I really hated those goddamn radios. Lonesome Road was alright but it came across as a bit pretentious at times and Ulysses was a bit of a twat.

Tho I guess you're entitled to your opinion. OWB is what I look forward to most though, and I'm pretty sure if you just changed it up a bit and made the map bigger it could've been its own game (which I would play the hell out of). A few more NPCs (that AREN'T furniture) would've been nice though...