Our Little Pony

[Tsun Tzu]

He didn't ASSUME anything. He said he had no problem with people who actually liked nerd culture, no matter what gender they are or what they look like. His problem was solely with the ones who DO pretend to like nerd culture just for the attention. If a person doesn't already fit that description, then he's not talking about them. It's that simple. No assumptions were made.

Exactly.

If said people are 'allowed' to behave in such a way, then the guy who wrote the article is 'allowed' to feel however he wants about them. Condemning him for having an opinion you don't agree with while defending the 'rights' of those folks is kind of hypocritical...which you're also 'allowed' to do. Funny how these things work themselves out, eh?

As for the comic... RD's hot and the concept was good but poorly executed particularly because they tried to make it relate specifically to that article...apparently without adequately looking it over.

Also, I'm seeing a lot of the words "imply" and "implied", without any understanding being shown that implications are usually based on the perception of the one taking in the information. They can be put there intentionally, with all the subtlety of a nuclear blast, but those too are reliant on the perception of the person reading/viewing them.

I personally don't see sexist implications in the "6 of 9" crap. I see a guy insulting those particular women based on their looks. If he were referring to men with the same statement then I highly doubt the S word would have reared its ugly head.

That's not sexist. It's being a jerk, but it's not sexist. Not sure where some of you folks are getting these ideas...which are based on perception...just like mine are! God I'm tired.

 

[Rack]

Look, I really wish I'd get harassed by a sexy hunk that had smarts and charms. But you know? People like that are both too intelligent and too attractive to harass girls on the street.

How you doing?

In seriousness though I think you have this bang on, except for one major factor, which is novelty. One creepy and inappropriate advance from someone who can physically intimidate you is still an ego boost. Several thousand creepy and inappropriate advances is (I imagine) somewhat less fun. That's why even if the girls here were intimidating and unattractive it still wouldn't seem so bad to a guy.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

He didn't ASSUME anything. He said he had no problem with people who actually liked nerd culture, no matter what gender they are or what they look like. His problem was solely with the ones who DO pretend to like nerd culture just for the attention. If a person doesn't already fit that description, then he's not talking about them. It's that simple. No assumptions were made.

Exactly.

If said people are 'allowed' to behave in such a way, then the guy who wrote the article is 'allowed' to feel however he wants about them. Condemning him for having an opinion you don't agree with while defending the 'rights' of those folks is kind of hypocritical...which you're also 'allowed' to do. Funny how these things work themselves out, eh?

As for the comic... RD's hot and the concept was good but poorly executed particularly because they tried to make it relate specifically to that article...apparently without adequately looking it over.

Also, I'm seeing a lot of the words "imply" and "implied", without any understanding being shown that implications are usually based on the perception of the one taking in the information. They can be put there intentionally, with all the subtlety of a nuclear blast, but those too are reliant on the perception of the person reading/viewing them.

I personally don't see sexist implications in the "6 of 9" crap. I see a guy insulting those particular women based on their looks. If he were referring to men with the same statement then I highly doubt the S word would have reared its ugly head.

That's not sexist. It's being a jerk, but it's not sexist. Not sure where some of you folks are getting these ideas...which are based on perception...just like mine are! God I'm tired.

I... I love you. Marry me?

But seriously, I agree with you. A lot. In the rush to cash in on public image, people have turned sexism into simply commenting on a woman. "She's got a nice ass." Sexist! "Tracy is totally a whore." Sexist pig! "Look at that chick. She's wearing a skirt like that just to get men." She can dress how she likes, sexist!

I miss the days when there were real feminists and not these... pretenders, with their overzealous political correctness. You know, when people were fighting to have people treated equally? Not to have one gender held on a pedestal and wrapped in bubble wrap. It's okay to say something negative that happens to be about a woman, guys. You can diss men and you can diss women. That's how equality works.

I'll be glad when this little fad dies and people stop crying victim every time a pair of double D's is shown. Being bi and male myself, maybe I should ogle some hunky space marine and cry sexism when ninety percent of men are shown masculine, tanned, toned, aloof and charming. Just kidding. Who would get offended by fantasy?

 

[Terminal Blue]

You've still yet to prove to me how one cannot enjoy harassment. You're welcome to keep trying. I'll even let you make up some more numbers.

Sorry, but if you're "enjoying" harassment it's not harassment. The definition of harassment involves consent.

As everything you have said makes it abundantly clear, you don't fear sexual violence. Perhaps you believe, most-likely correctly, that if someone were to grab you or touch you inappropriately and you told them to get off they actually would, that you could not be physically threatened or coerced. Perhaps you also can't imagine anyone "sexually harassing" you would do anything which you would actually find painful or humiliating. What I think Rhodo has been meaning to say is that, to a large extent, you only have the luxury of believing these things because you are a man. That is not to say that every man has that luxury, many men have experienced sexual assault or otherwise understand that it can happen to them. Some men have learned to fear it. Ask men in prison whether they "enjoy" aggressive sexual advances, and you will probably get a different range of answers to those present in the general male population.

Regardless, you don't seem to fear these things. Fair enough. You shouldn't have to. But that doesn't mean that noone else does or that noone else has the right to. I don't know a single woman who has not, at one point in her life, been in genuine fear of encountering sexual violence.

It's no good talking about possibilities and theoretical examples, the sad fact is that some degree of sexual aggression is considered normal amongst men. Women still live in routine fear of sexual violence from men who view sexual aggression as normal behaviour, and the fact that that you can only imagine sexual aggression as something you would find enjoyable speaks of a certain privilege on your part which stems directly from being male. While I hope you never encounter evidence to the contrary, you could at least be open to admitting that not everyone is positioned to "enjoy" aggressive sexual advances.

 

[SecondPrize]

I do not at all want to suggest that this sort of behavior is acceptable from attractive people, that it's OK coming from sexual harassment Fluttershy but not...
For all the guys who say they wouldn't mind this, replace the ponies with big beefy gay dudes who work out a lot, but keep all the text. Now how do you feel about it?
That is more to the point. Although the point really is that brony 2012 will NEVER get to relate on an equal level, only as dat magic ass, but that's just way too tough.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

You've still yet to prove to me how one cannot enjoy harassment. You're welcome to keep trying. I'll even let you make up some more numbers.

Sorry, but if you're "enjoying" harassment it's not harassment. The definition of harassment involves consent.

As everything you have said makes it abundantly clear, you don't fear sexual violence. Perhaps you believe, most-likely correctly, that if someone were to grab you or touch you inappropriately and you told them to get off they actually would, that you could not be physically threatened or coerced. Perhaps you also can't imagine anyone "sexually harassing" you would do anything which you would actually find painful or humiliating. What I think Rhodo has been meaning to say is that you only have the luxury of believing these things because you are a man. That is not to say that every man has that luxury, many men have experienced sexual assault or otherwise understand that it can happen to them. Some men have learned to fear it. Ask men in prison whether they "enjoy" aggressive sexual advances, and you will probably get a different range of answers to those present in the general male population.

Regardless, you don't seem to fear these things. Fair enough. You shouldn't have to. But that doesn't mean that noone else does or that noone else has the right to. I don't know a single woman who has not, at one point in her life, been in genuine fear of encountering sexual violence.

It's no good talking about possibilities and theoretical examples, the sad fact is that some degree of sexual aggression is considered normal amongst men. Women still live in routine fear of sexual violence from men who view sexual aggression as normal behaviour, and the fact that that you can only imagine sexual violence as something you would find enjoyable speaks of a certain privilege on your part which stems directly from being male. I while I hope you never encounter evidence to the contrary, you could at least be open to admitting that not everyone is positioned to "enjoy" aggressive sexual advances.

I never said people cannot dislike being harassed. Perhaps you didn't read the conversation before jumping in, but the entire debate hangs on Rhodo's inability to accept that one could enjoy nonreciprocating attention. I said that I have enjoyed such harassment and Rhodo decided I was incorrect (lol). The entire argument exists in their head. I've not once said it's impossible for people to suffer greatly from these things, and I've never argued that women do or don't cop it more. I stated how I felt, was attacked and proceed to point out the numerous errors in their logic and wording. Hell, they actually said "men cannot be raped because they can't lose their virginity or get pregnant." Then went on to say they meant "psychical virginity" seemingly afraid of saying hymen. As anyone who's completed highschool biology can tell you, a woman's hymen means nothing of her virginity.

Also, you can enjoy harassment. You can also enjoy pain, humiliation, degradation, discomfort and torture. That the word implies consent is superseded by the definition of other mindsets--those that enjoy what they don't enjoy. See: masochism for the most obvious example. Basically, you can think it hurts a lot to put your hand on the stove. But you can also want to do it again. Wanting more of it doesn't mean the pain isn't there.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

I do not at all want to suggest that this sort of behavior is acceptable from attractive people, that it's OK coming from sexual harassment Fluttershy but not...
For all the guys who say they wouldn't mind this, replace the ponies with big beefy gay dudes who work out a lot, but keep all the text. Now how do you feel about it?
That is more to the point. Although the point really is that brony 2012 will NEVER get to relate on an equal level, only as dat magic ass, but that's just way too tough.

Big beefy gay guy? Fuck yes. Sign me up for hot gay guys drooling all over me XD

 

[sergnb]

So you claim to be a fan of a show about love and tolerance, and then you perform intolerance acts based on baseless assumptions, sexism and extremist fanboyism?

Gee, wonder why people despise the MLP fanbase so much

 

[kurupt87]

The number of posters who find the sexual attitude of the 12 year old male Xbox player attractive in females is hilarious and pathetic.

 

[sergnb]

The number of posters who find the sexual attitude of the 12 year old male Xbox player attractive in females is hilarious and pathetic.

it's all fun and fantasies until you are tied to a chair in a dark basement for 3 days

 

[hazabaza1]

I'm so glad that geek culture as a whole is able to put down the now overdone topic of females and their implications and move on to something else.
Oh wait.

 

[Terminal Blue]

snip

Look, I think I see the wavelength you're on now, but that doesn't make it any better, and while I don't agree with much of Rhoda's argument (although it's clear that the virginity thing referred to how people "see" virginity rather than what actually happens) I was pointing out that one particular bit of it is kind of true.

I'll be the first to own up that sometimes experiencing coercion or pain or being pushed to the limits of what you actually want can be incredibly hot sometimes. That doesn't make it sexual harassment. Consent doesn't change its definition or become less important in BDSM practices, it becomes more important, because otherwise there is no guarantee that you're not just abusing or assaulting someone - and the law will certainly see it as such if they ever come forward.

Guys who hurt, insult, grope at or behave aggressively towards people on the assumption that "they enjoy what they don't enjoy" when there is absolutely no evidence that they do are committing sexual harassment. People whose partners trust them enough to willingly place some measure of responsibility in their hands, who are allowed the ability to hurt, insult, grope at or behave aggressively towards their partners as part of a negotiated and mutually supported exchange of power are not committing sexual harassment. It is an insult to the latter group to pretend that these two things are the same.

There is overlap, there are a lot of guys who use BDSM practices to basically act like jerks and misogynists, who believe that all women are natural submissives who can be sent into knee-trembling orgasm by the sight of a particularly impressive dom-scowl and who generally react very badly when the real world fails to live up to their badly-written Gor fanfiction, but generally it's still pretty obvious where the line is.

 

[SnakeCL]

I think the comic misses the original intent of the article, but the article isn't exactly articulated very well.

The dude should've been dressed in a g-string with a ponytail and a bodypaint mark. Anyone who has gone to an anime con has experienced this stuff.

Anime (or comics) or videogame conventions exist to bring together and celebrate fans of that medium. The issue arises when people who aren't fans of that medium show up for attention, and use the convention as a way help their self-image.

Not necessarily those in skimpy outfits. I'm talking about the girls I see walking around topless with tape over their nipples.

This type of behaviour is not at all limited to women either. You'd be surprised how many "big stone-chiseled dudebros" show up at conventions, wear an easy shirtless costume, all in the name of getting some easy tail.

Or look at one of 4chan's most notorious boards, /cgl/ which has a population more 70-80% women. Whats one of the biggest complaints (among female cosplayers?) people who cosplay and have no interest in the convention they're attending or the character they're cosplaying as.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

snip

Look, I think I see the wavelength you're on now, but that doesn't make it any better, and while I don't agree with much of Rhoda's argument (although it's clear that the virginity thing referred to how people "see" virginity rather than what actually happens) I was pointing out that one particular bit of it is kind of true.

I'll be the first to own up that sometimes experiencing coercion or pain or being pushed to the limits of what you actually want can be incredibly hot sometimes. That doesn't make it sexual harassment. Consent doesn't change its definition or become less important in BDSM practices, it becomes more important, because otherwise there is no guarantee that you're not just abusing or assaulting someone - and the law will certainly see it as such if they ever come forward.

Guys who hurt, insult, grope at or behave aggressively towards people on the assumption that "they enjoy what they don't enjoy" when there is absolutely no evidence that they do are committing sexual harassment. People whose partners trust them enough to willingly place some measure of responsibility in their hands, who are allowed the ability to hurt, insult, grope at or behave aggressively towards their partners as part of a negotiated and mutually supported exchange of power are not committing sexual harassment. It is an insult to the latter group to pretend that these two things are the same.

There is overlap, there are a lot of guys who use BDSM practices to basically act like jerks and misogynists, who believe that all women are natural submissives who can be sent into knee-trembling orgasm by the sight of a particularly impressive dom-scowl and who generally react very badly when the real world fails to live up to their badly-written Gor fanfiction, but generally it's still pretty obvious where the line is.

This has gone waaay off-topic, lol.

I think we both agree that sexual harassment is something people generally never wish to experience and the gender of the victim is utterly irrelevant. Unless otherwise informed, behaving aggressively sexual towards someone is not on. While there's noting wrong at all with flirting, making someone uncomfortable by singling them out and making unwanted or generally offensive comments is a douche move and nothing like friendly advances.

That we agree on that is what's important ^^

 

[Sean Deli]

"Guys, stop being dicks. Seriously.
Even if you, personally, never acted like a dick - you should totally stop being a dick.
No, I am not generalizing - I am just asking you to stop being a dick (even though you personally never acted as a dick)
If you refuse to accept the accusation of being a dick - well, now you are being mysogynistic and you actually ARE a dick right now. "

I never acted as a dick to women.
Neither was I ever protected by a woman when someone was a dick to me.
So I will not provide my protection to any woman unless doing a personal favor (like protecting friends and family) or providing a paid service.

That's called equality, ladies.
Enjoy it.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

It's exceptionally dishonest to compare someone in jeans and T-shirt to someone wearing the most sexualized, revealing and provocative outfit possible.

Someone wearing casual clothes: probably not after attention.

Someone wearing very little; short, revealing clothes and behaving outwardly flamboyant: maybe looking for attention.

 

[SecondPrize]

I do not at all want to suggest that this sort of behavior is acceptable from attractive people, that it's OK coming from sexual harassment Fluttershy but not...
For all the guys who say they wouldn't mind this, replace the ponies with big beefy gay dudes who work out a lot, but keep all the text. Now how do you feel about it?
That is more to the point. Although the point really is that brony 2012 will NEVER get to relate on an equal level, only as dat magic ass, but that's just way too tough.

Big beefy gay guy? Fuck yes. Sign me up for hot gay guys drooling all over me XD

I'm afraid you're going to have to go with the original ponies.