Parents accused of sexual abuse for taking pictures of their kids

[GonzoGamer]

In America, child protective services is a useless joke. They tear away kids from competent parents and ignore actual problem cases until the kid is dead.

Either that or it's just that those are the only two types of cases that get reported by the sensationalist press...

Actually, you don't usually hear stories like this in the press. Most of the times I've heard these kinds of stories (and I've heard a disproportionally high amount) from the victims and the innocent parent(s).

In America, child protective services is a useless joke. They tear away kids from competent parents and ignore actual problem cases until the kid is dead.

CPS in the US is not a useless joke. It provides an invaluable service that thousands of children are rightly thankful for. It has a noble goal that is in line with what I think most Americans believe society as a whole should do to help one another and the innocent. Despite its flaws, kids as a whole are probably better off in aggregate thanks to the efforts of CPS workers all over the nation.

That said, it is absolutely not a perfect system. There are real issues that need fixing, and hopefully lawsuits like these will help to illustrate some areas of badly-needed reform.

Like I said above, I've (personally mind you) heard quite a few horror stories about CPS but I've never heard one story involving the CPS where the person involved said "thank god for CPS stepping in."

I'll agree that the goal is noble but in order to achieve that goal they involve some of the most evil pricks you can imagine.

I'm afraid that in the end they probably traumatize more children than they help.

The other problem is that most of the families that this kind of thing happens to are too poor to sue.

 

[Logic 0]

You can't even take pictures without being accused of sexual abuse what have we come to.

 

[tsb247]

Ok, your morals are obviously different to mine, so asserting something as morally wrong objectively is idiotic.

Giving someone release will make them less frustrated, forcing them to keep it secret will only make them want to do it more.
Paedophile's are not wrong, they are if anything extremely unlucky, and your hatred and assertion of highground over people about something which they have no control over is sickening.

A serial killer wants to kill people because of a mental imbalance and they want to end people's lives, a Paedophile is exactly the same as a Gay person in the same sense that they don't want to cause anyone any harm (in most cases) but to satisfy their sexual urges they have to be with children. THOSE ARE NOT THE SAME THING. Murderer's endanger people's lives and often end them, a paedophile doesn't even necessarily have sex with a child and if they do it's out of a completely different compulsion than the one to murder so comparing the two is INVALID.

No, a pedophile is not the same as a homosexual. It is not a sexual orientation, but a mental disorder (for the hundredth time) as classified by the DSM IV. I've posted sources before, I won't post them again. Just go look. It is a mental disorder characterized by low self-esteem, a lower than average amount of testosterone, and a history of sexual abuse among other possible factors. Pedophilia is a behavioral/psychological problem, and reinforcing it only makes the problem worse.

To not deny the similarities between a serial killer and a pedophile is to deny that both are firmly rooted in human behaviorial and psychological problems. To deny that is purely ignorant.

It is not a behavior that should be defended or accepted.

 

[nezroy]

Like I said above, I've (personally mind you) heard quite a few horror stories about CPS but I've never heard one story involving the CPS where the person involved said "thank god for CPS stepping in."

And you probably never would, because who in the heck is going to thank CPS? The parents who deserved to have their kids taken away sure aren't going to thank them. The parents who get screwed by false allegations and overzealous CPS workers aren't going to thank them. The foster kids for whom the system fails sure aren't going to thank them.

Even many of the foster kids who have positive outcomes are going to be uncertain about whether or not to thank them because of the impossible task of judging what could have been against what actually was. That said, I have met plenty in the latter category and they are thankful for CPS. You may have met quite a few yourself and not known it, because I doubt they'll tell casual acquaintances their very personal stories of being saved by CPS. Most foster kids are not exactly in a hurry to dredge up that part of their past.

So forgive me if I don't take your exposure to personal anecdotes as a sound basis for messing with social policy.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Just as a personal aside, I've caught myself before seeing young kids playing, and naturally smiling, as it's just nice to see em innocently enjoying themselves, but then, thinking, oh god, what if the parent sees me, a single man, looking at their kids and smiling? It's so desperately twisted that a natural effect such as happy kids producing a smile in others could be construed as lust, but the media frenzy tells parents that there's a pedo lurking in every shadow, and anyone who 'looks a bit funny' is probably trying to fuck your kid.

I realise my fears might be fairly baseless, but what if some parent did look at me and go 'what are you looking at?' I'd no doubt be embarrassed and have no quick answer, and then that's it, the rumours would start and I'd be an outcast.

Whoa, get me to a shrink, but I'm kinda fearful for a society that witchhunts on such a level that 'looking a bit weird' is enough to get you labelled.

Yes, I realise I'm opening myself up to obvious criticisms too, but really, it's also been proven time and time again that 'the stranger' in the park is so unlikely a threat as to be negligible, but the family members and friends are far more likely to be the problem.

Again it's only 20 years ago that I remember being a kid surrounded by naked toddlers in the park and playground and on the beach and people just didn't go on about pedos all the time. Yet abductions happened and abuse happened, it just wasn't the only thing apart from immigrants house prices and terrorism that the media covered.

 

[Russian_Assassin]

This is ridiculous! People who cried "pedophiles!" need to have their brains taken away by social services.

Although I guess I wouldn't like having a naked picture of myself, but I can always burn them, as indeed I have already done Tell you what though, photos really stink when burned :S

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Do they even paddle kids in school now(I know that set me straight haha)?

Due to the Kenneth Baker mis-vote back in the 90's, teachers can be sacked for touching a child in anyway. Even in reflex or self-defence. That's how fucked up it's got.

But watch out about that, we have some people here who believe that slapping the back of a child's leg is akin to paedophilic rape.

 

[nezroy]

The other problem is that most of the families that this kind of thing happens to are too poor to sue.

Poverty is definitely an issue, but it has more to do with the fact that these families cannot afford to take care of their children to current social standards than it does with the fact that they can't sue. While I've seen poor families have their kids unfairly taken away by CPS, and then lack the financial resources to fight it, I have also seen far more kids removed from poor families for perfectly valid reasons. Unfortunately those valid reasons tend to discriminate against the poor from the outset.

Far more heartbreaking than the clear cases of CPS mishandling are the cases where CPS is legitimately taking kids away from families where just a little bit of intervention and social assistance would have made all the difference in the world. Families who absolutely did not have to be broken apart. But the very concept of preventative social assistance is anathema to the morality of the average US tax payer. Despite the fact that it almost always costs less in the long run, the reality is that Americans would rather pay MORE to ensure that there are no freeloaders than to run the risk of even one person "mooching" off their hard-earned buck.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

Ok, your morals are obviously different to mine, so asserting something as morally wrong objectively is idiotic.

Giving someone release will make them less frustrated, forcing them to keep it secret will only make them want to do it more.
Paedophile's are not wrong, they are if anything extremely unlucky, and your hatred and assertion of highground over people about something which they have no control over is sickening.

A serial killer wants to kill people because of a mental imbalance and they want to end people's lives, a Paedophile is exactly the same as a Gay person in the same sense that they don't want to cause anyone any harm (in most cases) but to satisfy their sexual urges they have to be with children. THOSE ARE NOT THE SAME THING. Murderer's endanger people's lives and often end them, a paedophile doesn't even necessarily have sex with a child and if they do it's out of a completely different compulsion than the one to murder so comparing the two is INVALID.

No, a pedophile is not the same as a homosexual. It is not a sexual orientation, but a mental disorder (for the hundredth time) as classified by the DSM IV. I've posted sources before, I won't post them again. Just go look. It is a mental disorder characterized by low self-esteem, a lower than average amount of testosterone, and a history of sexual abuse among other possible factors. Pedophilia is a behavioral/psychological problem, and reinforcing it only makes the problem worse.

To not deny the similarities between a serial killer and a pedophile is to deny that both are firmly rooted in human behaviorial and psychological problems. To deny that is purely ignorant.

It is not a behavior that should be defended or accepted.

I just did a quick google search and do you know what I found.

30 years ago Homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder.
Of course they're going to have similar characteristics, just like straight men, gay men, straight women and gay women have, it's to do with the way people are brought up in our society.

 

[tsb247]

Ok, your morals are obviously different to mine, so asserting something as morally wrong objectively is idiotic.

Giving someone release will make them less frustrated, forcing them to keep it secret will only make them want to do it more.
Paedophile's are not wrong, they are if anything extremely unlucky, and your hatred and assertion of highground over people about something which they have no control over is sickening.

A serial killer wants to kill people because of a mental imbalance and they want to end people's lives, a Paedophile is exactly the same as a Gay person in the same sense that they don't want to cause anyone any harm (in most cases) but to satisfy their sexual urges they have to be with children. THOSE ARE NOT THE SAME THING. Murderer's endanger people's lives and often end them, a paedophile doesn't even necessarily have sex with a child and if they do it's out of a completely different compulsion than the one to murder so comparing the two is INVALID.

No, a pedophile is not the same as a homosexual. It is not a sexual orientation, but a mental disorder (for the hundredth time) as classified by the DSM IV. I've posted sources before, I won't post them again. Just go look. It is a mental disorder characterized by low self-esteem, a lower than average amount of testosterone, and a history of sexual abuse among other possible factors. Pedophilia is a behavioral/psychological problem, and reinforcing it only makes the problem worse.

To not deny the similarities between a serial killer and a pedophile is to deny that both are firmly rooted in human behaviorial and psychological problems. To deny that is purely ignorant.

It is not a behavior that should be defended or accepted.

I just did a quick google search and do you know what I found.

30 years ago Homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder.
Of course they're going to have similar characteristics, just like straight men, gay men, straight women and gay women have, it's to do with the way people are brought up in our society.

That is true, and if I am proven wrong by science 30 years from now, fine. I will accept that. That does not change the fact that the behavior is not socially acceptable, and simply should not be.

The difference here is that both parties in a homosexual encounter are generally consentual and (usually) of an age to make a conscious decision. A child (as defined in the definition of pedophilia) cannot give such consent to a sexual partner because they cannot base that decision on prior knowledge. That holds true in every situation (except in the case of sexual abuse).

My argument is based on the notion that sexual contact with a child cannot be consented upon by the child in any real, rational way, and the effects of said encounter can (and are proven to in many cases) damage and/or traumatize said child for life. Thus, my argument is that pedophilia is wrong based not on the state of the pedophile, but based on the consequences to the child involved in a sexual act.

I will go further in saying that having knowledge of the consequences to the child beforehand make it even more unacceptable.

There is another fundamental difference with pedophilia and that is that the majority of those who can be classified as pedophile are men (i.e. it is very rare to find this trait in women). This points to a unique symptom in men, and not to the population as a whole like homosexuality.

 

[Dudemeister]

This is why I say the pedophile hysteria is just pointless.

Eventually pedophiles will be accepted and you can hate something else, these things go in cycles.

It wasn't very long ago it was perfectly acceptable to think of black people as lesser beings, now all of a sudden saying such things will shock people.

It wasn't very long ago it was perfectly acceptable to make fun of homosexual people, and point out how their "brains are defective". Nowadays this is not acceptable.

Pedophiles are next, all of a sudden your "kiddy fiddler" jokes will be looked down upon.

Have you just likened peadophillia to being black or gay ?
So sexually abusing children is the same as being born black is it ?
Oh, and some day, peadophiles will be accepted ?
Being gay and being a peadophile are quite different, for one thing, peadophillia is never consentual, children to not want to be raped by adults (shocking, I know).
I highly doubt that raping children will be acceptable at any point because for peadophiles to be 'accepted', children's rights would have to be completely ignored.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

Ok, your morals are obviously different to mine, so asserting something as morally wrong objectively is idiotic.

Giving someone release will make them less frustrated, forcing them to keep it secret will only make them want to do it more.
Paedophile's are not wrong, they are if anything extremely unlucky, and your hatred and assertion of highground over people about something which they have no control over is sickening.

A serial killer wants to kill people because of a mental imbalance and they want to end people's lives, a Paedophile is exactly the same as a Gay person in the same sense that they don't want to cause anyone any harm (in most cases) but to satisfy their sexual urges they have to be with children. THOSE ARE NOT THE SAME THING. Murderer's endanger people's lives and often end them, a paedophile doesn't even necessarily have sex with a child and if they do it's out of a completely different compulsion than the one to murder so comparing the two is INVALID.

No, a pedophile is not the same as a homosexual. It is not a sexual orientation, but a mental disorder (for the hundredth time) as classified by the DSM IV. I've posted sources before, I won't post them again. Just go look. It is a mental disorder characterized by low self-esteem, a lower than average amount of testosterone, and a history of sexual abuse among other possible factors. Pedophilia is a behavioral/psychological problem, and reinforcing it only makes the problem worse.

To not deny the similarities between a serial killer and a pedophile is to deny that both are firmly rooted in human behaviorial and psychological problems. To deny that is purely ignorant.

It is not a behavior that should be defended or accepted.

I just did a quick google search and do you know what I found.

30 years ago Homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder.
Of course they're going to have similar characteristics, just like straight men, gay men, straight women and gay women have, it's to do with the way people are brought up in our society.

That is true, and if I am proven wrong by science 30 years from now, fine. I will accept that. That does not change the fact that the behavior is not socially acceptable, and simply should not be.

The difference here is that both parties in a homosexual encounter are generally consentual and (usually) of an age to make a conscious decision. A child (as defined in the definition of pedophilia) cannot give such consent to a sexual partner because they cannot base that decision on prior knowledge. That holds true in every situation (except in the case of sexual abuse).

My argument is based on the notion that sexual contact with a child cannot be consented upon by the child in any real, rational way, and the effects of said encounter can (and are proven to in many cases) damage and/or traumatize said child for life. Thus, my argument is that pedophilia is wrong based not on the state of the pedophile, but based on the consequences to the child involved in a sexual act.

I will go further in saying that having knowledge of the consequences to the child beforehand make it even more unacceptable.

There is another fundamental difference with pedophilia and that is that the majority of those who can be classified as pedophile are men (i.e. it is very rare to find this trait in women). This points to a unique symptom in men, and not to the population as a whole like homosexuality.

Sorry but at what point in my argument have I said that they should be allowed to have sex with children, oh that's right. I haven't, so that kind of makes most of your post redundant.

The last bit is somewhat interesting, but men are generally more bold than women, I doubt that there were many female gay people around that you would have noticed 30 years ago.

 

[tsb247]

Sorry but at what point in my argument have I said that they should be allowed to have sex with children, oh that's right. I haven't, so that kind of makes most of your post redundant.

The last bit is somewhat interesting, but men are generally more bold than women, I doubt that there were many female gay people around that you would have noticed 30 years ago.

To accept them is to acknowledge their desires as being legitimate. To say, "It's ok for people to be pedophiles, but it's not ok to have sex with children," does not make much sense at all. The two go together since that is ultimately what pedophiles want/fanticize about. That's the very definition of pedophilia! They have urges and display the will to have sex with pre-pubescent children. You can't pick and choose. That's like saying, "I approve of homosexuality, but I don't approve of two people of the same sex being intimate." No, you did not say, "I approve of sex with children," but the idea of seeing them as a community with a sexual orientation that should be respected is laughable. The urges they display are still a detriment to society and if acted upon are almost always damaging to others. That's a fact. There is not logical, rational reason why such behavior should be accepted or catered to.

I'm done here. This thread has been de-railed enough.

 

[theultimateend]

o.o
I thought every parent did that.
Stupid people nowadays. Way too paranoid about things like this.

To be fair parents have only been doing that since the advent of photography.

So like...

120 years of families taking pictures of their kids in embarrassing and usually nude manner.

I mean come on. In theory this is 2.18 times more patriotic than "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, and folks defend that far harder .

If you wonder where I'm getting my math for that the Under god is only 55 years old.

At any rate this is absolutely retarded and the people who reported them should be punched in the taint. Just once...so they don't do it again.

 

[Straitjacketeering]

This is why I say the pedophile hysteria is just pointless.

Eventually pedophiles will be accepted and you can hate something else, these things go in cycles.

It wasn't very long ago it was perfectly acceptable to think of black people as lesser beings, now all of a sudden saying such things will shock people.

It wasn't very long ago it was perfectly acceptable to make fun of homosexual people, and point out how their "brains are defective". Nowadays this is not acceptable.

Pedophiles are next, all of a sudden your "kiddy fiddler" jokes will be looked down upon.

Yeah... hm.. nah nah no "Kiddy Fiddlers" will never be accepted. Being racist or homophobic is in a whole nother league then a sick-o "Fiddling" with a young child who can't defend themself, if you think differently... bleh...

 

[Alphavillain]

This is why I say the pedophile hysteria is just pointless.

Eventually pedophiles will be accepted and you can hate something else, these things go in cycles.

It wasn't very long ago it was perfectly acceptable to think of black people as lesser beings, now all of a sudden saying such things will shock people.

It wasn't very long ago it was perfectly acceptable to make fun of homosexual people, and point out how their "brains are defective". Nowadays this is not acceptable.

Pedophiles are next, all of a sudden your "kiddy fiddler" jokes will be looked down upon.

what are you talking about? this isn't even on the subject of pedophillia. These are parents that took pictures of their kids in a bath. My parents took pictures of me in the tub as a little kid. So did every parent of EVERY PERSON I KNOW.

What you said is... well, to be frank disturbing as hell.

Yeah, I agree that Frederick2003's views are just plain weird, or maybe it's an unfunny attempt at a tongue-in-cheek joke. Some things are never cool, and paedophilia is definitely one.