Parents accused of sexual abuse for taking pictures of their kids

[randomrob]

I thought The USA was supposed to be a 'free' country? Yet it's becoming so much of a nanny state that social services take their kids away for that? That's absolutely bloody ridiculous. Mind you I live in Brown's Britain where people like scout leaders and parents are having to undergo full criminal record checks if they regularly take several children places by car. When was the last time a child's parent's friend abducted a child on the school run? When was the last time a scout master abducted his troop? Oh yeah never! What happened to trust?

 

[Laze]

The problem here is not the Wal-Mart employee who flipped out (I agree, they are paranoid, but they need to be for liability reasons like any other customer service-oriented business).

The problem here is that when the pictures were reported to law enforcement, the response was an IMMEDIATE RAID. Instead of, you know, doing some research on the accused and finding that, in fact, they did have young children who were about the same age as the kids in the photos, and then (if still deemed necessary) asking the parents about the photos. Still embarrassing to the parents and over-the-top PC if they had to ask, but it satisfies both the "pedophiles are everywhere we need to be careful" argument and the "don't cause damage to the kids' psyche or to the parents' reputation" argument.

Like most other problems with paranoia, could have been easily solved with some common sense on the accuser's part. Wal-Mart should not be liable, but the state obviously screwed up.

The state should get sued. Even reporting on something like this without confirmation of actual wrongdoing could be illegal (libel), never mind acting on it. Law enforcers should know better than to raid first and ask questions later in a case like this.

 

[FinalGamer]

Who should we worry more about?
The ones charged with the case, or the ones charging the case? Who had the dirty idea first?

 

[Lukeje]

oh so, then technically the fifty million plus photos my parents have of me naked as a child in the bath mean that my parents sexually abused me? wtf? this is bullshit it really is. The walmart employee fucking overreacted......

50 million? I think that may count as abuse...

Edit: Assuming it takes 1s for each photo... that would mean you were in the bath for about 38 years. With your parents taking photos continuously.

exaggeration....

I was being facetious.

 

[SultanP]

I generally try to ignore the idiotic aspects of society, but I often find myself slightly worried when I have to speak to someone else's child, or carry my niece around. I guess all the over reacting has made me believe someone might be hiding around every corner just so he can jump out and yell about paedophilia if I'm being nice to a child.

 

[SomeUnregPunk]

/snip

If this is a mental disorder, then is it can you wean them off it by making them masturbate to something else for an year or so? So then the attraction gets replaced? Get them to masturbate to a tree or something less taboo.

According to that second link:

"Pedophilia generally is treated with cognitive-behavioral therapy. The therapy may be prescribed alone or in combination with medication. Some examples of medications that have been used include anti-androgens and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). Relapse prevention is also emphasized. However, the outlook for successful treatment and rehabilitation of individuals with Pedophilia is guarded."

I'm not particularly familiar with treatments for mental disorders so I probably wouldn't be the one to ask for an effective evaluation of therapy techniques.

I saw that and and what I wrote is what I thought they were saying...or are they saying the docs just kills the attraction?

 

[RagnorakTres]

...what the...*headdesk to aggrieved moan*

Seriously? Seriously? Seriously??

What the hell, Arizona? How does the manager, upon seeing this so-called "child pornography," not laugh the employee out of the office? How does the CPS officer not laugh the case off their desk? How many people had to be stupid in order for this to happen? How do that many people not have the common sense God gave a lemon?

This is why I say the pedophile hysteria is just pointless.

Eventually pedophiles will be accepted and you can hate something else, these things go in cycles.

It wasn't very long ago it was perfectly acceptable to think of black people as lesser beings, now all of a sudden saying such things will shock people.

It wasn't very long ago it was perfectly acceptable to make fun of homosexual people, and point out how their "brains are defective". Nowadays this is not acceptable.

Pedophiles are next, all of a sudden your "kiddy fiddler" jokes will be looked down upon.

I suppose, since it really is just a sexual preference (like, say, furries or S&M/bondage) and sexual preference isn't really something you have a lot of control over, we shouldn't be so jumpy about it. The problem is that children are not prepared for sexuality, so forcing it on them in order to satisfy your own desires is infringing upon their right to a normal (well, what passes for normal in this twisted society) childhood.

Good. Lock the bastard paedophiles up and throw away the key.
Blatantly making child pornography like that. They deserve the chair!
I personally am sickened to see you all coming out to defend these sickos. Makes me wonder exactly what is on your hard drives.

<color=white>That is sarcasm for those of you not bright enough to figure it out...
Anyway you have to remember this is the same country that is locking some poor bastard up for 15 years for importing a manga that just so happens to have some underage sex scenes in it.

I lol'd.

 

[Sexy Street]

What the hell? You do know what pedophile means. It means you rape kids...

No it does not.

how does it not.

 

[Wyatt]

The state should get sued. Even reporting on something like this without confirmation of actual wrongdoing could be illegal (libel), never mind acting on it. Law enforcers should know better than to raid first and ask questions later in a case like this.

its called probable cause. nude pictures of children are illegal if they contain "graphic or simulated lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person" hard to define what is lascivious though.

your young daughter has on a dress and no diaper and is setting spraddle legged on a chair and you snap a picture of her, is that just a simple pic that you will use to show her future boyfriend how cute she was as a baby, or is it a snap shot that is taken before the real show begins and daddy starts diddling her?

how can you know from the picture alone how 'innocent' it is? it REQUIRES an investigation to decide. if any of you here have accidently (or sought out on purpose) pictures of kiddy porn on the net you know the truth of what im saying. the first pic is any 'innocent' pose that grand-ma may have taken when you were 5 , the next is that same child giving a blow job.

there was probibal cause in my mind to investigate. the 'and at playtime' that is getting left off here is critical to the situation in my mind. reading that it WASNT just 'aww how cute naked babys in the bath' kinda thing and was obvious serious enough to warrent CPS hauling those kids out of the home while they investigated.

and whats MORE, CPS arent all morons they DO have some judgment, and given the case load most of these agencys have id say those cases that they DO check out would almost HAVE to have something unusual about them to even get someones attention in the first place.

the line about 'innocent' bath-time photos is a non argument, they obviously WERENT just innocent bath-time photos since everyone here including myself sees no harm in those types of pictures. there was something more too this that isnt being reported. im not saying that the photos werent in hind sight truly innocent it seems that due too there bieng no charges filed that after an investigation they WERE 'innocent'. but hind sight is allways 20/20 and you cant KNOW by looking at picture of a nude child the context that photo was taken in without an investigation.

the person reporting it wasnt wrong, CPS wasnt wrong for investigating it, and the kids are safer for it. if that means that the parents are embarassed for a little while so what?

better annoyed parents than abused kids. my money says the whole thing gets tossed in court as it should. when we start attacking 'whistle blowers' as well as attacking the agencys charged with protecting the innocent for doing their jobs thats when the guilty go free and we are a worse society for it.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I have to ask the employee at Wal-Mart a serious question. "If this was child pornography like you idiotically thought it was. Do you think anyone is that stupid to take the pictures to a Wal-Mart for development?"

I mean honestly, if this was a case of child abuse the parents could not think going to have pictures developed at one of the largest and most popular companies on the entire planet would be a good idea. Nevertheless the CPS most definitely failed miserably here. To think we now have to be cautious of the type of pictures we take of our own children? Unbelievable. The paranoia in Countries nowadays is more deplorable than half the bloody crimes.

Maybe if the Justice System was not plagued with absolute incompetence, it would be less of an issue or better yet if human beings were not so god damn stupid. Just when I think my faith in humanity could not seep any deeper into the negative category. By the time I reach 50 I'll be plotting how to save intelligent life and gas the rest...

 

[Pegghead]

Now that's just stupid. If you look through our old photo albums there are plenty of shots of little Pegghead having bathtime (And yes, you can see his little Pegg). I mean sure if they were older that would be bad but they were young...that's fine.

 

[sneakypenguin]

Hell if I had pics of naked kids come through my photo lab you can bet someone is getting contacted. For all the guy knew it coulda been creepy uncle joe snapping pics while the niece/nephews played oblivious, sexual abuse is often done by family members. So why not be cautious.

Bottom line, don't freaking take iffy pics to a public developer. Just use a printer or kiosk.

If they thought there was anything wrong with the images or had some other motive, do you think that these people would be taking the pictures to a local Wal-Mart in the first place? If they had some other use for these pictures they more than likely would develop them by other means.
You're basically saying anything your kid does that someone else somewhere might see it as 'wrong' should be kept from getting developed, even though there is nothing wrong about it?
Being cautious is all fine and dandy, but there is being cautious and being an idiot. The person who reported these two parents was an idiot.

You would be supprised what people bring in to print. Especially if they drop off an SD card or memory stick. We've had people bring in porn to print lol. I think that ideally what should have happened is. Report+quick investigation+a few questions and a few min later parents and kids are on the way. I agree what happened here was ridiculous but was not the fault of the one who reported it.

 

[Squarez]

Stop take a step back ....

Why would you want pictures of your kids taking a bath ? Either you dont bathe them enough that its a bloody unique occaision (CPS need to be involved then child endangerment) or you are thinking ohh this will be a funny picture to deliberatly embarress my child with for the rest of their life (Pyschological abuse) or finally, your a creepy paedo.

Mebbe its the picture taking thats wrong, not the response ? Fotunately there are no nekkid pics of me & I cringe hard everytime my mother drags out the photo album on behalf of my brother & sister.

So 99% of all parents (millions upon millions including mine, most of this forum's and probably, if you ask, yours) are bad parents, psychotic or a paedophile?

 

[crypt-creature]

Hell if I had pics of naked kids come through my photo lab you can bet someone is getting contacted. For all the guy knew it coulda been creepy uncle joe snapping pics while the niece/nephews played oblivious, sexual abuse is often done by family members. So why not be cautious.

Bottom line, don't freaking take iffy pics to a public developer. Just use a printer or kiosk.

If they thought there was anything wrong with the images or had some other motive, do you think that these people would be taking the pictures to a local Wal-Mart in the first place? If they had some other use for these pictures they more than likely would develop them by other means.
You're basically saying anything your kid does that someone else somewhere might see it as 'wrong' should be kept from getting developed, even though there is nothing wrong about it?
Being cautious is all fine and dandy, but there is being cautious and being an idiot. The person who reported these two parents was an idiot.

You would be supprised what people bring in to print. Especially if they drop off an SD card or memory stick. We've had people bring in porn to print lol. I think that ideally what should have happened is. Report+quick investigation+a few questions and a few min later parents and kids are on the way. I agree what happened here was ridiculous but was not the fault of the one who reported it.

I'd like to think that it wasn't the fault of the person who reported it, but not knowing what the person said/did or how they described things makes me kind of iffy. It could have been any number of things that caused such an over-reaction though.
In all the situation probably could have been handled more delicately.

About the porn incidents, that's both wrong and rather amusing. How are you supposed to handle situations like that?
Even though, kiddie porn and abuse is taken a little more seriously and is being handled pretty harshly. From what I've heard and read about people with those types of interests, they seem to take care of those developments in a way that wouldn't draw attention to them. It just makes the whole Wal-Mart development scenario seem to much of a risk if the intentions of this couple (or one of them) were anything more than just family memories.

 

[Squarez]

Excuse me. The 'right' thing was to to take their toddlers/infants away for almost a month and a half? No. I don't think thats right at all. Its not too difficult tell whether theres some funny business going on in a picture or not. Are the kids playing? Or is there something inappropriate going on? Its really not that hard to tell. The fuck-o at wal-mart obviously left his braincells at home, flipped out, and decided to go apeshit over nothing. This is nothing short of an affront to the family. Those kids will have more scars from being kept from their parents for a month, than anything those pictures could have done.

wow you seem to be totaly missing the point. you look at this case in hind sight and say yup the wal-mart guy and the CPS were wrong.

i would tell you to look at this case not from the end view point but from the begining. your presented with nude photos of kids on camera memory stick those photos are a small part of a larger album of a vacation trip. the first question you would be asking yourself is why suddenly among all the pictures of a vacation do you find nude photos of the children NOT just taking a bath as is said here but rather

"There were seven to eight bath- and playtime photos of the girls that showed a "portion or outline or genitalia.""

that too me warents an investigation.

now the next stage, you also start from the end result and clame that the CPS was wrong. as yourself this, they are presented with nude photos of kids. some in the bath some not, these photos were left in with a bunch of vacation photos, certianly its atleast REASONABLE to assume that perhaps, just MAYBE that the 'bath time' photos WERE a part of soemthing more alarming and it DID need too be investigated either way.

and now finaly the most importiant part. i dont give a fuck about the parents supposid 'rights' here. the childrens rights come first. i think the parents were ignorant to be taking bathtime photos that could in any way be mistaken for anything more than innocent photos in the first place. many have pointed out here that innocent pictures should be 'obvious' to anyone and i tend to agree with that. wich makes me belive that the pictures in question , especialy the 'play time' ones were quite so 'innocent' as this article would ahve us belive.

another thing is that CPS as a rule DOESNT just rip kids out of homes at the drop of the hat so again thats evidence for me that these 'innocent photos' werent as simple as many here try and make it sound like.

and finaly, the kids were removed for a month so what? better a month in CPS hands than a entire childhood of sexual abuse. child sexual abuse (or any kind of child abuse) isnt something you can safly hit or miss on. this isnt something that we can shrug and say its ok too err on the side of caution and NOT investigate promptly and take extream measures to end if you have reasonable cause to investigate. to me naked photos of kids at play is reasonable cause to investigate, and yes even to 'rip the kids away from their parents' as dramatic as that sounds we all no its nonsense. kids that youn will forget about it even assuming they were upeset to begin with, what they WOULDNT forget is an entire childhood of being diddled by daddy. THAT is the real issue here despite all the hype and nonsence i read in this thread.

i would MUCH rather have 'innocent parents' being cought up in a perhaps top over zelious CPS system and have the children protected than have innocent children NOT bieng protected because parents that are stupid enough to take naked photos of the kids to wal/mart in the first place might get a bad repution? wtf how can the possable have a bad repution? no charges were file, they got their kids back safe and sound and THEY learned a valuable lession that they obviously needed to be tought.

bottom line is that no matter what slight problems that these parents faced even in the worst possable senario that some here trumpet isnt even on the same scale with what cild abuse victims face. if the parents are now uncomfortable and upset they 'lost' their children for a month, i feel a slight sense of sympathy for them but that sympathy is tempered by the fact taht number one they WERE stupid enough to take nude pictures of their kids in the first place and niumber two their discomfort is a small price to pay to be CERTIAN that the CHILDREN were being abused.

what brings truly to the levle of farse for me, is that these morons parents try to get naked photos of their kids developed and now they are upset that they got investigated for a possable crime? OHH NOES WE AER TEH PEDOZ NOW !!11!11 they have been subject to *gasp* the trauma of having to explane just WHY it was they were stupid enough to take nude pictures of their kids to wal-mart. big ........... fucking ........ deal.

ive delt with CPS before or rather the senior version of it, i myself HAVE been investiaged for 'abusing' my grandmother. i WELCOMED them when they came to my home. i did nothing of the kind, i knew i was innocent and nothing at all to be worried about. they did their investigation found that not only was my granmother NOT abused but was getting above average care for a person in her sitution and that the charges were totaly unfounded. in short the APS agent wasnt my enemy and i didnt assume that she was when she came knocking at my door, she was there to make certian that an old and vulnerable woman was NOT being abused, and rather than me thuming my chest and screaming about how i had been accused wrongfully i was actualy happy too see that someone DID care enough to make certian that the elderly ARENT being abused. now the twit who repoted me in the first place thats another matter, but it was also due to personel issues. in plane words she was abusing the sytem to spite ME. but just because i was a 'victim' of the system and because SHE was a moron doesnt make the 'system' itself bad nor the people who work in it.

the steaks in all abuse cases are just to high to fail. if some 'innocent people' have to be uncomfortable for awhile thats a price im willing to pay to be a certian as we can be that REAL abuse isnt taking place. id rather have in MY society 20 sets of innocent parents investiagted and found not guilty than have even ONE child slip through the cracks and face a lifetime of REAL suffering because of it.

as fortune would have it Judges and courts agree with me. better 20 wrongfull accused 'innocent' parents than even 1 abused child

TL;DR.

Not all were in the bath! THE PARENTS ARE PAEDOS!

My answer, there are pictures of me on a makeshift waterslide when I was about three, I was stark naked, that would be classed as "playtime". My parents, and my auntie who was also there, are not paedophiles. You mention that they shouldn't be taking pictures of things like that, I say, why not? Bathtime and these things happen anyway, why are the parents suddenly not allowed to take pictures of their child just because some circumstances have changed slightly. They're allowed to take pictures of them fully clothed (which might I add if any other person did that, they'd be called a paedo too) but not pictures of them, that would be exactly the same, pictures or no.

Now that may not have made any sense, but my basic point is. Children need to be bathed, they run around naked, that's what kids do, the parents will see them anyway, why aren't they allowed keep keepsakes of those (assuringly) adorable moments just because they are naked.

 

[Emilie Diabolica]

what.... the.... fuck....!

this is another reason why americans as a whole have such a bad name in other countries.
(no offence to you normal americans, i'm referring to the general stereotype)

well i think kudos to the parents for sueing walmart, though really they dont have much of a chance, seeing as they're fighting against a corporate giant with the best lawyers, mountains of money, etc...

...What does this have to do with Americans? Other than it taking place in America?

Because this wouldn't happen anywhere else besides the US. The level of paranoia over there is insane. This would never happen in Australia, people tend to be more level-headed.

Don't even make me laugh. I went to bed, so I didn't get a chance to respond to this comment until now, but I clearly don't have to. Other people have already responded and made a mockery of that ignorant comment. All of this "OH MAN THAT STUFF WOULDN'T HAPPEN HERE!" is getting ridiculous. Do some research before you start pointing fingers, and saying ignorant stuff like that.

nyeh, ***** and rave all you like, but it's prettty true. anyway, i'm not saying this out of the blue to piss you all off, some people agreed with me:

Hear Hear. Only in America would this happen. Not the suggestion of sexual abuse by some cockgoblin of a employee, granted, that could happen anywhere. But only in America would the entire process go as far as the kids ACTUALLY BEING TAKEN AWAY by child services before someone says "what the fuck?". To get to that point it would have been put past the store manager, then to some level of relevant authority like the police, who then would have put it to child services,who would have then taken people over to take away the kids. HOW IN HELL did it get this far without someone piping up saying "Wait a minute, this is totally normal, there's absolutely no ground for sexual abuse". The only place IN THE WORLD where it would get to that stage is America, because you have a bunch of paranoid panicky twats over there who will jump at the first opportunity to blow shit out of proportion.

P.S No offense to any level headed Americans reading this. For the most part you're a fun bunch.

 

[King of the N00bs]

jesus christ everybody fucking does that! I swear with the divine force as my witness that there is something veryveryvery rotten with society nowadays