PC Gaming and Piracy: Must Read Article

[EzraPound]

CmdrGoob

Whatever, CmdrNoob

 

[CmdrGoob]

CmdrGoob

Whatever, CmdrNoob

OOO burned. Good argument. Nobel prize argument there. Winner.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

I would love for someone to provide me real stats on Pirating instead of this hyperbole and borderline schizo line that corporations are toting. Where are we getting these magical numbers discussed here? Do pirates magically answer exit polling during pirating?

Well why don't you try reading the damn article?

I did and it pulled numbers out of its ass.

Only if it's ass is "torrent downloads as counted by torrent search sites". Now granted that's the only form of piracy you can even have a hope of counting.

Are you pirating? Please check yes or no. Oh and include your IP address and Mailing Address. Seriously you can't track piracy because most sites can't or won't track the amount of downloads nor would they release such information on their own. Not to mention this doesn't even factor in pirating in its many other forms. Like when I make CDs and hand them out on the street just in spite of EA.

So what you're really saying is that going on the counts from the torrent sites is possibly a large underestimate.

Any pirate site worth its sea salt doesn't track the amount of downloads. At least the intelligent stick it to the man ones I run with. And I agree completely with EzraPound CmdrNoob indeed. You would think with your irrational temper tantrums that you wrote the article.

 

[EzraPound]

Well, like I said, there's just a fundamental problem with trying to assert that there's 20 or 25 million frequent PC gamers out there (let alone 80, which Goob actually tabled earlier) when Crysis sold 1.5 million and won GOTY in alot of outlets - unless you're willing to accept that the piracy ratio is 4:1, and I think you're a tool if you think that. Like I said: I know exactly two gamers - or perhaps three - that play alot of games on their PC, that's it. By contrast, I know dozens that use varying consoles, to suggest an entirely personal census.

 

[CmdrGoob]

I would love for someone to provide me real stats on Pirating instead of this hyperbole and borderline schizo line that corporations are toting. Where are we getting these magical numbers discussed here? Do pirates magically answer exit polling during pirating?

Well why don't you try reading the damn article?

I did and it pulled numbers out of its ass.

Only if it's ass is "torrent downloads as counted by torrent search sites". Now granted that's the only form of piracy you can even have a hope of counting.

Are you pirating? Please check yes or no. Oh and include your IP address and Mailing Address. Seriously you can't track piracy because most sites can't or won't track the amount of downloads nor would they release such information on their own. Not to mention this doesn't even factor in pirating in its many other forms. Like when I make CDs and hand them out on the street just in spite of EA.

So what you're really saying is that going on the counts from the torrent sites is possibly a large underestimate.

Any pirate site worth its sea salt doesn't track the amount of downloads. At least the intelligent stick it to the man ones I run with. And I agree completely with EzraPound CmdrNoob indeed. You would think with your irrational temper tantrums that you wrote the article.

Oh really, are you sure you read the article? Because the author cites, for example, mininova which certainly counts torrent downloads and counts say 271,000 Fallout 3 downloads from mininova alone and cites torrentfreak.com as counting 645,000 although it's unclear what sites are compiled into this count.

 

[Dys]

The sales of add in graphics cards sounds to me like a market heavily dominated by gamers upgrading their PCs, and that market is big enough to support sales of 20 million in a quarter, according to the sources in that article. Let's say half of those are sold to PC gamers, and the average PC gamer upgrades every 2 years, we'd already be in the ballpark of 80 million gamers. Who's buying all these add-in graphics cards?

I know *a lot* more people and institutions who bought GTX280's for this [http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_home.html] instead of gaming.

And really, it's institutions and non-gaming system building corporations who buy up the bulk of high end video cards. Individual builders and large OEM builders make up the minority of those who use high end video cards.

Pretty sure that people buying computers exclusively for work purposes don't get counted, as they go through various government loopholes to pay less tax etc (thats how it works in Australia anyway, corporate and public sales are very different).
Also you don't nearly need GTX280's to run matlab.

 

[CmdrGoob]

Well, like I said, there's just a fundamental problem with trying to assert that there's 20 or 25 million frequent PC gamers out there (let alone 80, which Goob actually tabled earlier) when Crysis sold 1.5 million and won GOTY in alot of outlets - unless you're willing to accept that the piracy ratio is 4:1, and I think you're a tool if you think that. Like I said: I know exactly two gamers - or perhaps three - that play alot of games on their PC, that's it. By contrast, I know dozens that use varying consoles, to suggest an entirely personal census.

I agreed, for the sake of argument, to consider 12 million frequent PC gamers which I deliberately picked as being the lowest of the the 12-15 million range you agreed to and showed even taking that number, PC game sales underpeform compared to 360 sales by a terrible margin.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

I would love for someone to provide me real stats on Pirating instead of this hyperbole and borderline schizo line that corporations are toting. Where are we getting these magical numbers discussed here? Do pirates magically answer exit polling during pirating?

Well why don't you try reading the damn article?

I did and it pulled numbers out of its ass.

Only if it's ass is "torrent downloads as counted by torrent search sites". Now granted that's the only form of piracy you can even have a hope of counting.

Are you pirating? Please check yes or no. Oh and include your IP address and Mailing Address. Seriously you can't track piracy because most sites can't or won't track the amount of downloads nor would they release such information on their own. Not to mention this doesn't even factor in pirating in its many other forms. Like when I make CDs and hand them out on the street just in spite of EA.

So what you're really saying is that going on the counts from the torrent sites is possibly a large underestimate.

Any pirate site worth its sea salt doesn't track the amount of downloads. At least the intelligent stick it to the man ones I run with. And I agree completely with EzraPound CmdrNoob indeed. You would think with your irrational temper tantrums that you wrote the article.

Oh really, are you sure you read the article? Because the author cites, for example, mininova which certainly counts torrent downloads and counts say 271,000 Fallout 3 downloads from mininova alone and cites torrentfreak.com as counting 645,000 although it's unclear what sites are compiled into this count.

Two crap torrent sites isn't saying much this also doesn't factor in people who are "downloading" in order to monitor traffic via the P2P system. This also doesn't factor that servers could be downloading this in order to seed it faster. In fact this doesn't take much if anything into account other then people who clicked download which means they downloaded a torrent file they didn't download the game so thus the stats are useless.

 

[CmdrGoob]

I would love for someone to provide me real stats on Pirating instead of this hyperbole and borderline schizo line that corporations are toting. Where are we getting these magical numbers discussed here? Do pirates magically answer exit polling during pirating?

Well why don't you try reading the damn article?

I did and it pulled numbers out of its ass.

Only if it's ass is "torrent downloads as counted by torrent search sites". Now granted that's the only form of piracy you can even have a hope of counting.

Are you pirating? Please check yes or no. Oh and include your IP address and Mailing Address. Seriously you can't track piracy because most sites can't or won't track the amount of downloads nor would they release such information on their own. Not to mention this doesn't even factor in pirating in its many other forms. Like when I make CDs and hand them out on the street just in spite of EA.

So what you're really saying is that going on the counts from the torrent sites is possibly a large underestimate.

Any pirate site worth its sea salt doesn't track the amount of downloads. At least the intelligent stick it to the man ones I run with. And I agree completely with EzraPound CmdrNoob indeed. You would think with your irrational temper tantrums that you wrote the article.

Oh really, are you sure you read the article? Because the author cites, for example, mininova which certainly counts torrent downloads and counts say 271,000 Fallout 3 downloads from mininova alone and cites torrentfreak.com as counting 645,000 although it's unclear what sites are compiled into this count.

Two crap torrent sites isn't saying much this also doesn't factor in people who are "downloading" in order to monitor traffic via the P2P system. This also doesn't factor that servers could be downloading this in order to seed it faster. In fact this doesn't take much if anything into account other then people who clicked download which means they downloaded a torrent file they didn't download the game so thus the stats are useless.

Yeah, I'm sure hundreds of thousands of people are all downloading just the torrent file to monitor the torrent or collect the torrent files or serve them to other people who are also not actually downloading the game. Right. No piracy going on here!

 

[Rajin Cajun]

I would love for someone to provide me real stats on Pirating instead of this hyperbole and borderline schizo line that corporations are toting. Where are we getting these magical numbers discussed here? Do pirates magically answer exit polling during pirating?

Well why don't you try reading the damn article?

I did and it pulled numbers out of its ass.

Only if it's ass is "torrent downloads as counted by torrent search sites". Now granted that's the only form of piracy you can even have a hope of counting.

Are you pirating? Please check yes or no. Oh and include your IP address and Mailing Address. Seriously you can't track piracy because most sites can't or won't track the amount of downloads nor would they release such information on their own. Not to mention this doesn't even factor in pirating in its many other forms. Like when I make CDs and hand them out on the street just in spite of EA.

So what you're really saying is that going on the counts from the torrent sites is possibly a large underestimate.

Any pirate site worth its sea salt doesn't track the amount of downloads. At least the intelligent stick it to the man ones I run with. And I agree completely with EzraPound CmdrNoob indeed. You would think with your irrational temper tantrums that you wrote the article.

Oh really, are you sure you read the article? Because the author cites, for example, mininova which certainly counts torrent downloads and counts say 271,000 Fallout 3 downloads from mininova alone and cites torrentfreak.com as counting 645,000 although it's unclear what sites are compiled into this count.

Two crap torrent sites isn't saying much this also doesn't factor in people who are "downloading" in order to monitor traffic via the P2P system. This also doesn't factor that servers could be downloading this in order to seed it faster. In fact this doesn't take much if anything into account other then people who clicked download which means they downloaded a torrent file they didn't download the game so thus the stats are useless.

Yeah, I'm sure hundreds of thousands of people are all downloading just the torrent file to monitor the torrent or collect the torrent files or serve them to other people who are also not actually downloading the game. Right. No piracy going on here!

Proof you have no clue what you are talking about. If I had a nickel for every time a torrent file was downloaded then a comment left like, "WTF were b me filez?" I would be a rich man. Most people like you don't understand torrenting and thus download the torrentfile expecting the game, movie, etc. Then leave disappointed and angry that it wasn't that simple.

 

[CmdrGoob]

I would love for someone to provide me real stats on Pirating instead of this hyperbole and borderline schizo line that corporations are toting. Where are we getting these magical numbers discussed here? Do pirates magically answer exit polling during pirating?

Well why don't you try reading the damn article?

I did and it pulled numbers out of its ass.

Only if it's ass is "torrent downloads as counted by torrent search sites". Now granted that's the only form of piracy you can even have a hope of counting.

Are you pirating? Please check yes or no. Oh and include your IP address and Mailing Address. Seriously you can't track piracy because most sites can't or won't track the amount of downloads nor would they release such information on their own. Not to mention this doesn't even factor in pirating in its many other forms. Like when I make CDs and hand them out on the street just in spite of EA.

So what you're really saying is that going on the counts from the torrent sites is possibly a large underestimate.

Any pirate site worth its sea salt doesn't track the amount of downloads. At least the intelligent stick it to the man ones I run with. And I agree completely with EzraPound CmdrNoob indeed. You would think with your irrational temper tantrums that you wrote the article.

Oh really, are you sure you read the article? Because the author cites, for example, mininova which certainly counts torrent downloads and counts say 271,000 Fallout 3 downloads from mininova alone and cites torrentfreak.com as counting 645,000 although it's unclear what sites are compiled into this count.

Two crap torrent sites isn't saying much this also doesn't factor in people who are "downloading" in order to monitor traffic via the P2P system. This also doesn't factor that servers could be downloading this in order to seed it faster. In fact this doesn't take much if anything into account other then people who clicked download which means they downloaded a torrent file they didn't download the game so thus the stats are useless.

Yeah, I'm sure hundreds of thousands of people are all downloading just the torrent file to monitor the torrent or collect the torrent files or serve them to other people who are also not actually downloading the game. Right. No piracy going on here!

Proof you have no clue what you are talking about. If I had a nickel for every time a torrent file was downloaded then a comment left like, "WTF were b me filez?" I would be a rich man. Most people like you don't understand torrenting and thus download the torrentfile expecting the game, movie, etc. Then leave disappointed and angry that it wasn't that simple.

Yeah, it's hundreds of thousands of people just downloading the torrent files over and over. Who are you trying to kid with this?

 

[Rajin Cajun]

I have personally downloaded torrent files for various things to check speed and see if I am having connection problems or just when I am browsing to see what torrent is faster. So yes you can't base actually downloads of torrents to equate game downloads. You did write this idiotic article didn't you? This would explain the moodswings and bleeding.

 

[CmdrGoob]

I have personally downloaded torrent files for various things to check speed and see if I am having connection problems or just when I am browsing to see what torrent is faster. So yes you can't base actually downloads of torrents to equate game downloads. You did write this idiotic article didn't you? This would explain the moodswings and bleeding.

No, no I did not write the article.

And if you're going to make this all personal; I see you pirate games. What is it that makes you come up with such transparently ridiculous rationalizations [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_(psychology)], "a defense mechanism in which unacceptable behaviors or feelings are explained in a rational or logical manner; this avoids the true explanation of the behavior or feeling in question"? Is it "to create a block against internal feelings of guilt" that your greed is harming an industry that provides you with entertainment? Because you can't seriously expect us to believe that you seriously believe that all those torrent downloads are for monitoring or some shit. Or that all developers deserve it anyway.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

I proudly pirate games. Rationalization? It is a protest to an industry that has overly coproratized and no longer produces quality products. I will not use my labour to pay for the half-assed product of anothers labour. I put in hard work and long hours for my money and I refuse to give it to companies whose only wishes are to milk shit software for profit. So until they can prove to me they are worth the $60 price tag full of malicious DRM spyware I won't spend a dime.

I have no qualms and I see nothing immoral about it. IP is a social construct created by corporations in order to keep a control and monopoly on things I believe all digital media should be for public consumption not for the lining of the coffers of international corporate behemoths. So you might want to find someone who actually believes in International Law or social conditioning before you try ye olde guilt trip. It surely hasn't worked for the gaming industry.

 

[jamesworkshop]

There are alot of PC gamers in the world atleast 10 million purely from just playing WoW and many play it as their only game.
If you want to understand Piracy numbers do not compare with console sales its irrelevant but look at over time PC sale figures and few PC games have ever sold over a handful of million Sim, Diablo and Wow.
Gran Turismo sold about 10 million copies and despite high sales only 1/10 playstation owners brought the game should we assume that 90% of playstation owners pirated the game because of this.
Opinons about game vary alot in terms of popularity, sure there might be 25million PC gamers but are they all going to like the game? some might hate it or because games are released in chunks they buy a competitors game instead

 

[CmdrGoob]

I proudly pirate games. Rationalization? It is a protest to an industry that has overly coproratized and no longer produces quality products. I will not use my labour to pay for the half-assed product of anothers labour. I put in hard work and long hours for my money and I refuse to give it to companies whose only wishes are to milk shit software for profit. So until they can prove to me they are worth the $60 price tag full of malicious DRM spyware I won't spend a dime.

I have no qualms and I see nothing immoral about it. IP is a social construct created by corporations in order to keep a control and monopoly on things I believe all digital media should be for public consumption not for the lining of the coffers of international corporate behemoths. So you might want to find someone who actually believes in International Law or social conditioning before you try ye olde guilt trip. It surely hasn't worked for the gaming industry.

And yet despite the fact that this software is "shit" you continue to download it all. It's shit, dammit, and yet you demand the right to get it for free.

Yep, that stinks of rationalization.

 

[CmdrGoob]

There are alot of PC gamers in the world atleast 10 million purely from just playing WoW and many play it as their only game.
If you want to understand Piracy numbers do not compare with console sales its irrelevant but look at over time PC sale figures and few PC games have ever sold over a handful of million Sim, Diablo and Wow.
Gran Turismo sold about 10 million copies and despite high sales only 1/10 playstation owners brought the game should we assume that 90% of playstation owners pirated the game because of this.
Opinons about game vary alot in terms of popularity, sure there might be 25million PC gamers but are they all going to like the game? some might hate it or because games are released in chunks they buy a competitors game instead

Good point. Wikipedia says 11 million monthly subscribers to world of warcraft.

And yet only 12-15 million frequent PC gamers, EzraPound?

 

[Rajin Cajun]

I proudly pirate games. Rationalization? It is a protest to an industry that has overly coproratized and no longer produces quality products. I will not use my labour to pay for the half-assed product of anothers labour. I put in hard work and long hours for my money and I refuse to give it to companies whose only wishes are to milk shit software for profit. So until they can prove to me they are worth the $60 price tag full of malicious DRM spyware I won't spend a dime.

I have no qualms and I see nothing immoral about it. IP is a social construct created by corporations in order to keep a control and monopoly on things I believe all digital media should be for public consumption not for the lining of the coffers of international corporate behemoths. So you might want to find someone who actually believes in International Law or social conditioning before you try ye olde guilt trip. It surely hasn't worked for the gaming industry.

And yet despite the fact that this software is "shit" you continue to download it all. It's shit, dammit, and yet you demand the right to get it for free.

Yep, that stinks of rationalization.

Haha that jump in logic was amazing. You fail at trolling but its alright I will feed you once more before I hit the head then go to bed. Did I say I download "shit" software? No, but I do download and give it a go if I find it mildly interesting but most of the time its a no go and gets deleted within 24 hours of download because its pure shit or I complete it thus proving its content was mediocre. I do applaud your lack of logic though I now download all software I do wish I had the bandwidth, time and space to do all that but saddly I can't download all the internet for my personal enjoyment.

 

[jamesworkshop]

if you download a game and realise that its rubbish then delete they still might lose a sale because the only way to find out otherwise is to buy it.
Whether a pirate completes the game or not they still haven't paid for it so companies don't care either you like it and complete it, then probably don't buy it or stop playing because its rubbish then never going and buy it then probably hits up the forums and encorage others not to buy it