People's Issue With Square Enix

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Jul 9, 2011
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Blimey, the past few threads to pop up here have been intriguing to the point that I finally decided to create an account.

Anyway, I have to wonder if the OP's just butt-hurt, trolling, or has a serious complaint. So people hate Square, some for less rational reasons than others. Worse things have happened... like Final Fantasy XIII being made, for example. Badumtish.

I'm sure others have already mentioned this, but much of the hate on Current Square stems from such a love for Past Square. Past Square made masterpieces. Current Square makes Advent Children and Final Fantasy XIII. No matter how you feel about either of them, there's no denying that they will never be the classics that the older games managed to become.

I say "Final Fantasy VI" and different people everywhere will remember different parts of the game that endeared them to it. I say "Final Fantasy XIII" and half of those same people will remember a boring, boring, exceedingly boring game.
 

Thaius

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LiberalSquirrel said:
Thaius said:
Oh, okay. That did seem like something I would write, and I've written similar things before, but I hadn't on this thread, so... I was confused. And I still am, just differently. Well then, all credit goes to you. We seem to think similarly.
Don't blame you for the confusion, I was/am pretty confused too.

...But I am perfectly okay with thinking like someone with a Sokka avatar.
And I have no problem with thinking like someone who recognizes and appreciates a Sokka avatar. Flameo, hotman!
 

Phoenix_XIII

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gandhi the peacemake said:
Blimey, the past few threads to pop up here have been intriguing to the point that I finally decided to create an account.

Anyway, I have to wonder if the OP's just butt-hurt, trolling, or has a serious complaint. So people hate Square, some for less rational reasons than others. Worse things have happened... like Final Fantasy XIII being made, for example. Badumtish.

I'm sure others have already mentioned this, but much of the hate on Current Square stems from such a love for Past Square. Past Square made masterpieces. Current Square makes Advent Children and Final Fantasy XIII. No matter how you feel about either of them, there's no denying that they will never be the classics that the older games managed to become.

I say "Final Fantasy VI" and different people everywhere will remember different parts of the game that endeared them to it. I say "Final Fantasy XIII" and half of those same people will remember a boring, boring, exceedingly boring game.
Serious complaint. And another thing, welcome to The Escapist community, friend!
 

espressojet

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Personally i love Square Enix...it's just... they should REALLY stick to what worked before all their games became crap [sometime after FFX]
 

JasonKaotic

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Well my reason isn't everyone else's, but I dislike Enix for, in my opinion, ruining Final Fantasy. But that's just me.
They were great when they were just Square. But I've hated every Final Fantasy made by Square Enix.
 

Inkidu

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Ever since Square merged with Enix they've been on the downhill side. JRPGs as big console properties is going away in general. I think their future is in the hand-held market. I haven't really liked anything that Square-Enix has produced for consoles (The World Ends with you was okay, but I was unable to finish it. See hand-helds.)

Final Fantasy 13 their most-recent game was a total lobotomy of JRPGs in general. I think Yahtzee said it best, "The story and gameplay of JRPGs are separated by a wrought-iron gate, made of tigers."

When I look at Square-Enix now I don't say, "Oh, new Final Fantasy" I say, "What awesomeness is Eidos giving us now!"

I don't know, maybe I've been spoiled by immersion and having choices other than what my character goes into battle wielding. Actually, I think that high-end cut-scenes are hurting console JRPGs. They detract from the narrative, because they usually don't explain anything and focus on being pretty. However, I'm also getting really cynical and jaded about the whole Japanese market.
 
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I think a lot of people will agree on me with this but ever since Squaresoft and Enix joined together they just haven't been the same. The problem with new Final Fantasy games is that a lot of the old people who made them are gone but the spirit of the series doesn't seem intact. I think Yoshitaka Amano is one of the last main guys still working on the series. A lot of die hard FF purists also despise the futuristic tones that had their "debut" so to speak with FFVII and have largely remained. This and the series hasn't grown up with its audience and many people do not like the Japanese style personalities in their games.
 

neonsword13-ops

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Repetion, Grinding, Etc. The only Square games I like now a days are Kingdom Hearts and the Just Cause series.
 

NickCaligo42

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Phoenix_XIII said:
Point is, why do people complain about them? It's the one thing that irritates me about Yahtzee and IGN and Gamespot and all of those gaming sites based in America or otherwise.
They haven't made a decent game for themselves in almost ten years. Don't even talk about Kane & Lynch, that's Eidos. Let's look at what all Square themselves have been doing for the past decade. Note that I'm not going to talk about the Enix-based properties (Dragon Quest and Star Ocean, to name a couple), just the Square ones.

[ul]
[li]Final Fantasy X - 2001 - Excellent battle system wrapped in a superficial (if harmless) advancement system (Sphere Grid). Players' tolerance for some of the most grating, stupid, irritating characters Square has ever produced may vary, plot has a poor flow, third act starts with a lame plot twist that renders everything the player has done completely pointless. At least it had some exciting action, though, and for what it's worth this game innovated a lot in the way of what we expected from the PS2 visually.[/li]
[li]Kingdom Hearts - 2002 - An excellent game all-around, but many of the better points of its storytelling can likely be attributed more to Disney Interactive's involvement than Square's. Additionally, playing a kid with too much hair gel and a set of clown shoes doesn't appeal to everybody.[/li]
[li]Final Fantasy XI - 2003 - The MMORPG nobody wanted; a Final Fantasy-themed re-skin of Everquest, but less thought-through in terms of overall design. It has its audience... but that's barely a fraction of the ten million who bought Final Fantasy X and other main entries in the series.[/li]
[li]Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories - 2004 - GBA spinoff to a major game in the series. Everybody ignored this because the gameplay sucked and it re-treaded the first game heavily. The problem? Square put effort into this. No kidding, this wasn't a spinoff, this was the next proper game, which you have to play in order to understand the next one.[/li]

[li]Kingdom Hearts 2 - 2005 - A pointless clusterfuck of a story with a pointless clusterfuck of a game system. Too many overlapping features added into combat made it un-engaging and un-challenging. Everybody was confused due to Chain of Memories taking all the good ideas this game could have been founded on and containing vital details for understanding this one's events. Square had more control over this one, which meant the Disney stuff--while there was still lots of it--got a lot less attention, leading to this feeling like one of their most padded games. Villains are hollow and inconsistent in their motivations, heroes deal with artificially manufactured teenage angst and self-loathing, making this frustrating to sit through.[/li]
[li]Final Fantasy XII - 2006 - We waited one year between FF9 and FF10 for a Final Fantasy that was a mixed bag, but you could at least say it had a strong identity, had some exciting action, and was fun to play. We waited five more years for the blandest Final Fantasy with the blandest characters, the blandest storyline, the blandest gameplay, and one of the worst advancement systems ever put in an RPG (License Board).[/li]
[li]Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII - 2006 - This game is even more of a disaster than Kane and Lynch 2. Promising concept, amazingly poorly executed. Weak shooting controls, weak action, weak AI, weak plot, terrible pacing due to choppy and inconsistent use of cutscenes, incredibly poor level design. Dull, monotonous, pretentious. This one is notorious for Square's forcing a major Japanese gaming magazine, Famitsu, to delay the release of its review--which was decidedly poor--to not impact sales.[/li]
[li]The World Ends With You - 2008 - Tetsuya Nomura's brainchild. Woefully under-supported by Square marketing. He probably wasn't happy about this.[/li]
[li]Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII - 2008 - "Hey kids! Remember the main villain in FF7? Well it turns out this guy we just made up was actually the one behind him going crazy this whole time!" Does that even sound remotely compelling? The worst thing is that this retcon is all this game contributes. Weak action RPG combat contrasted against flashy cutscenes. Think Star Ocean: 'Til the End of Time if you only had one character. Dull, monotonous, pretentious.[/li]
[li]The Last Remnant - 2008 - In the interim between FF12 and FF13, the FF13 team started fooling around with the Unreal Engine since FF13's game engine was taking too damn long to make. The result? Another detached, half-assed RPG with poor exposition, poor cinematic direction, and a lame combat system based on giving vague suggestions to characters rather than actually controlling them. This thing was a bomb and rightfully so.[/li]
[li]Kingdom Hearts: 368/2 Days - 2009 - It's a Kingdom Hearts game on the Nintendo DS. How good do you think it is? It's awkward and repetitive to play (lots of "smash all the boxes" challenges...) and the plot is paper-thin. They had one idea, and they blow it entirely on the last act. The combat system is almost okay... except that it's on the DS, so the controls are awful.[/li]
[li]Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep - 2010 - The most puerile bullshit that Square's tried to foist as a story yet, coupled with a combat system that, while initially promising and challenging, quickly Magnet Spirals out of control. Did I mention that this is the most puerile bullshit that Square's tried to foist as a story yet? This may be the most badly written game they've ever produced, and that includes the next game on this list.[/li]
[li]Final Fantasy XIII - 2010 - If you attach the "Final Fantasy" name to the same poor qualities seen in The Last Remnant, apparently that means 80+ review scores. We waited another four years for the next entry in the series. The verdict? Arguably one of the worst video games of all time, ever. Un-engaging combat system that essentially doesn't need the player to interact with it, coupled with a lousy exploration scheme that makes it feel like no effort was put into making the game's world believable. The funny thing? Not many people know that this thing's content was thrown together in about six months. They didn't have any gameplay developed or any story written until they released the demo alongside Advent Children Complete in November 2009. And that was all they had.[/li]
[li]Final Fantasy XIV - 2010 - Following one of the worst single-player RPGs of all time, arguably one of the worst MMORPGs of all time! Don't take my word for it, though, just ask CEO Yoichi Wada, who issued a public apology for this game and immediately extended the free trial indefinitely. I believe that Square has yet to make a single dollar off this turkey.[/li]
[/ul]

BOTTOM LINE: Square has no sense of focus as a developer. They can't develop titles efficiently, they can't create a good enough sense of focus to support their apparently-narrative-centric approach and create even basically competent stories, let alone engaging or relatable ones, and it's been a very long time since they've developed a game that was actually fun to play.

Mileage may vary, depending on peoples' tolerance or acceptance of the negative qualities of the above games. Even so, it's difficult to ignore that they take way too long to release low-to-average quality material and have a poor sense of accountability. They'll give a press release one year ("towns are too hard to make in HD! It's impossible! An FF7 Remake would take a million years to make!" -- Meanwhile Assassin's Creed 2 and inFamous had already come out) and change their tune the next (FFXIII-2 includes towns, settlements, and characters to talk to, so does Versus). In the past two years they've released major titles virtually un-tested or ignoring their user testing altogether (FFXIV, FFXIII). With all their reports of over-long development times, infighting within their dev teams, and constant waffling of direction with said major titles (FFXII, FFXIII), it's as if they're staffed entirely by student game designers; we feel like the parents, and they're lying to us about their report card.
 

Grey_Focks

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I used to love Square. FF12 and FF Tactics were awesome games! Then again, I have grown to hate them because they are the ones responsible for killing the JRPG for me. Games like The Last Remnant and FF13 were just so bad, I literally cannot enjoy any sort of JRPG now. Is this logical? Not entirely, but I think all but the hardiest of the hardcore square fanboys/girls can agree that they're games have been getting worse. By a rather disturbing margin. I'm honestly going to be waiting to get Deus Ex used, just so no money goes to square from my pocket.

Trust me, getting all upset that people hate on your favorite developer isn't helping anyone.
 

Sahasrala88

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Chibz said:
LiberalSquirrel said:
But it's true. I have a friend who admits that the only reason he never played a JRPG is because Yahtzee dislikes them. You may not like it, but it happens.
Yeah, I hate it when stuff like that happens. This is a big part of why I loathe Yahtzee.
Except Yahtzee has said that he likes some JRPG's like Final Fantasy VI. He even states what he liked about it in his review of FF XIII.

I can't really say that I loath Square Enix games, but I do think that they are generally over rated. Especially the newer ones. The Final Fantasy games have never really provided anything as far as gameplay that wasn't already being done or wasn't already being done better. I enjoy some of their games but I don't think they are the epic masterpieces that many fans claim them to be.

There are people that will spew hate about one type of game or another without any real explanation of why they hate it. It's frustrating and annoying, but those people exist. Most of the anti Square Enix opinions are a reaction to the mediocre games the company has been coming out with recently. I think the company does deserve some of the criticism, but it needs to be constructive.
 

Snotnarok

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I used to like Final Fantasy but after Tactics (one of my favorite games ever) the series just got worse and worse to me, I found it less and less appealing as they kept using angsty protagonists in their stories. And they keep making their characters look more and more prettyboy and that just puts me off besides the goofy stories. I'd like some meat on a character and for them to not look like a woman, or to just simply go the whole hog and have a female protagonist.

Hell in general most JRPGs have not been appealing to me in a long time, it's all PSOne and back that's fun to me. Personally, I just dislike FF now because all of their newer characters are so unappealing and the stories really don't interest me (from a certain point on). I mean I played 8-12 and hated them, the ones I bought I was really mad about(borrowed some others). The most recent FF I enjoyed was Crisis Core, while it had some goofiness in it, there was actually a lot of thought put into it.

I just continued more Breath of Fire IV (game I play on and off), and that game so far is terrific, far FAR better than anything any JRPG has shown me lately. As well as Shining Force 2 (in simple story and a silly innocence sense), then again this all could be because I dislike the current trend of what they do in JRPGs. I find it hard to explain but I tried here, and if you disagree, then feel free to do so.

Edit: Also, don't get upset at people knocking a developer, because that just shows fanboyism. Who cares who made the game, in the end it's the artists behind it, NOT the company and often the artists are not the same from game to game.
 

CRRPGMykael

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I dont care about FF or any other title that square enix actually makes,but what i hate about them is that the cunts had to buy out eidos.remember when eidos used to be awesome?yeah,those were the days...until square enix came and fucked it all up.im not gonna talk about kane & lynch 2 or anything else,im just gonna talk about an upcoming title now.Hitman absolution.we all loved the hitman games,right?well.David Bateson,the voice actor of 47-GONE.And so is the voice actress of Diana.Oh,remember one of the most awesome composers of all time,Jesper Kyd,who did the music for the Hitman games?Oh,sorry,hes gone too.What about that hitman feel in the games?gone too,from what ive seen.now its like splinter cell conviction,but with a bald guy,which atleast is reasonable because for example,if youre out of bullets,WELL WHY COULDNT YOU potentially grab a little statue and throw it at your enemy?now you can :/

ohwell,i just hope that hitman absolution turns out ok and itsnt raped even more by square enix.just cause 2 got out untouched by anyone at square enix,and what happened to that game?IT WAS FUCKING AWESOME.keep that in mind...
 

Strain42

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My issues with SquareEnix are rather simple and easy to explain in a small amount of words.

"Not counting ports and remakes of old games, they have yet to release a game I have actually liked"

That's pretty cut and dry right there. What more needs to be said?
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Mar 16, 2011
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I didn't really have any issue with them until Final Fantasy 13 then...Vanille.

cannot unknow.

I am remaining open minded about the next installment and will wait on reviews before handing over my pennies.

I think the Deus EX thing is a little extreme since people pretty much said it was amazing and so it was good publicity. But they are perfectly within their legal right to persue the issue.
 

Kopikatsu

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Chibz said:
Thaius said:
I actually like Yahtzee. He's funny, while still making some legitimate points on the games he reviews. It is unfortunate that some people take his series as the word of god, though.
Except... Most videos I've seen of his, it's painfully obvious after a little while that he hardly played the game in question. His attempts at humour are juvenile at best, his grasp on gaming is flimsy.[footnote]Why should I have to respect the site's content & contributors when one of their contributors is basically a troll, and his "content" is little more than trolling?[/footnote]

For Rah's sake, I've actually seen it spend half a review talking about how he doesn't like games from japan, the system the game is on, and a completely unrelated game. When called out on being absolutely full of shit, he proceeded to personally attack the fans of the game in an "extra punctuation" article.

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Er...Yahtzee only has a week to play the games and make the Zero Punctuation. (Although honestly, I have no idea how long that takes.)

Of course, he still has life, co-owns a bar, does the podcast, creates his own games, and other various things. Basically, Yahtzee doesn't devote much time to the games he reviews because he doesn't have time to give.
 

Kungfu_Teddybear

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xXxJessicaxXx said:
I didn't really have any issue with them until Final Fantasy 13 then...Vanille.
What about the bit when you were forced to play as Hope? *shudder*
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Kungfu_Teddybear said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
I didn't really have any issue with them until Final Fantasy 13 then...Vanille.
What about the bit when you were forced to play as Hope? *shudder*
I try to bring up that memory but there is only static....it is the only way I can retain my sanity. :(