People's Issue With Square Enix

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Kungfu_Teddybear

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xXxJessicaxXx said:
Kungfu_Teddybear said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
I didn't really have any issue with them until Final Fantasy 13 then...Vanille.
What about the bit when you were forced to play as Hope? *shudder*
I try to bring up that memory but there is only static....it is the only way I can retain my sanity. :(
To be honest, I hated Vanille at first but she eventually grew on me. She was annoying yeah, but definitely not the most annoying character I've come across.

That's right I'm looking at you Tingle!
 

Infernai

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The main problem is that they continue to release sub-par to meh quality games (Nobody mention Mindjack, Nobody mention Mindjack....NOBODY MENTION MINDJACK! THAT GAME DIDN'T HAPPEN!), especially in regards to final fantasy which in my opinion hasn't been good since the 9th entry. The chief problem with Final Fantasy is that, well, they're more or less reusing the same basic characters over and over again. It's technically always a cheerful, young optimisitic eighteen year old caucasian male with blonde hair who goes out to save the world. I can atleast respect 13 for breaking away from that, but....it's not an RPG. It's just a turn-based action playable movie.

In short, it's basically the fact the quality of their games has slipped so much in recent years (Joint efforts don't count: eg. Deus Ex, Kingdom Hearts, Drakengard etc) to the point i think the developers need to be sat down and have a good talking too about getting their shit together.
 

Ben Legend

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They're not perfect, but heck, they have made some almost perfect games. I think they aren't afraid to try new stuff, which in modern day game development is rare.

On another note, here's hoping Final Fantasy 13 Versus is perfect. ;D
 

l3o2828

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Well, After 12, and that HORRIBLE MMO, Square Enix has been going downhill with the quality of their writting and their games overall.
I Used to like Sqaure enix (and both sides wich merged) but right now they are making no effort to change things in their games that a big part of the fanbase complains about, so yeah, they have gone lazy, relying on next gen graphics and forgot to write compelling stories , well rounded characters and all in all, designing a combat system that isn't as sticky as a 15 year old hands after reading a playboy magazine.
I seriously can't tell whats wrong with turn based combat, it's fun and it proves that you can get away from a completly unfair fight with just a nice strategy.
But i digress.
I don't hate them,they just need to grow up already and actually put some effort into what they do.
 
Jan 27, 2011
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It's just that for long time they were so damn GOOD.

And now they are just....mediocre. A lot of their good franchises are either fogotten about, modified to the point where they just aren't as good, or they're just overdone to the point where they have been burned out.

I think they need to start looking to new ways to make games (specifically RPGs). They innovated with "The World Ends With You" and that was one of their best games ever. I want to see them keep innovating and evolving. Or at the very least, go back to making gret oldschool JRPGs and not interactive movies.
 

l3o2828

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Yosharian said:
Phoenix_XIII said:
Okay. All I wanna know is...

Why the hell do people ***** about Square Enix so much?
Because they make bad games? Maybe it's the anger that comes from seeing a great developer go completely down the toilet.

NickCaligo42 said:
Phoenix_XIII said:
Point is, why do people complain about them? It's the one thing that irritates me about Yahtzee and IGN and Gamespot and all of those gaming sites based in America or otherwise.
They haven't made a decent game for themselves in almost ten years. Don't even talk about Kane & Lynch, that's Eidos. Let's look at what all Square themselves have been doing for the past decade. Note that I'm not going to talk about the Enix-based properties (Dragon Quest and Star Ocean, to name a couple), just the Square ones.

[ul]
[li]Final Fantasy X - 2001 - Excellent battle system wrapped in a superficial (if harmless) advancement system (Sphere Grid). Players' tolerance for some of the most grating, stupid, irritating characters Square has ever produced may vary, plot has a poor flow, third act starts with a lame plot twist that renders everything the player has done completely pointless. At least it had some exciting action, though, and for what it's worth this game innovated a lot in the way of what we expected from the PS2 visually.[/li]
[li]Kingdom Hearts - 2002 - An excellent game all-around, but many of the better points of its storytelling can likely be attributed more to Disney Interactive's involvement than Square's. Additionally, playing a kid with too much hair gel and a set of clown shoes doesn't appeal to everybody.[/li]
[li]Final Fantasy XI - 2003 - The MMORPG nobody wanted; a Final Fantasy-themed re-skin of Everquest, but less thought-through in terms of overall design. It has its audience... but that's barely a fraction of the ten million who bought Final Fantasy X and other main entries in the series.[/li]
[li]Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories - 2004 - GBA spinoff to a major game in the series. Everybody ignored this because the gameplay sucked and it re-treaded the first game heavily. The problem? Square put effort into this. No kidding, this wasn't a spinoff, this was the next proper game, which you have to play in order to understand the next one.[/li]

[li]Kingdom Hearts 2 - 2005 - A pointless clusterfuck of a story with a pointless clusterfuck of a game system. Too many overlapping features added into combat made it un-engaging and un-challenging. Everybody was confused due to Chain of Memories taking all the good ideas this game could have been founded on and containing vital details for understanding this one's events. Square had more control over this one, which meant the Disney stuff--while there was still lots of it--got a lot less attention, leading to this feeling like one of their most padded games. Villains are hollow and inconsistent in their motivations, heroes deal with artificially manufactured teenage angst and self-loathing, making this frustrating to sit through.[/li]
[li]Final Fantasy XII - 2006 - We waited one year between FF9 and FF10 for a Final Fantasy that was a mixed bag, but you could at least say it had a strong identity, had some exciting action, and was fun to play. We waited five more years for the blandest Final Fantasy with the blandest characters, the blandest storyline, the blandest gameplay, and one of the worst advancement systems ever put in an RPG (License Board).[/li]
[li]Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII - 2006 - This game is even more of a disaster than Kane and Lynch 2. Promising concept, amazingly poorly executed. Weak shooting controls, weak action, weak AI, weak plot, terrible pacing due to choppy and inconsistent use of cutscenes, incredibly poor level design. Dull, monotonous, pretentious. This one is notorious for Square's forcing a major Japanese gaming magazine, Famitsu, to delay the release of its review--which was decidedly poor--to not impact sales.[/li]
[li]The World Ends With You - 2008 - Tetsuya Nomura's brainchild. Woefully under-supported by Square marketing. He probably wasn't happy about this.[/li]
[li]Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII - 2008 - "Hey kids! Remember the main villain in FF7? Well it turns out this guy we just made up was actually the one behind him going crazy this whole time!" Does that even sound remotely compelling? The worst thing is that this retcon is all this game contributes. Weak action RPG combat contrasted against flashy cutscenes. Think Star Ocean: 'Til the End of Time if you only had one character. Dull, monotonous, pretentious.[/li]
[li]The Last Remnant - 2008 - In the interim between FF12 and FF13, the FF13 team started fooling around with the Unreal Engine since FF13's game engine was taking too damn long to make. The result? Another detached, half-assed RPG with poor exposition, poor cinematic direction, and a lame combat system based on giving vague suggestions to characters rather than actually controlling them. This thing was a bomb and rightfully so.[/li]
[li]Kingdom Hearts: 368/2 Days - 2009 - It's a Kingdom Hearts game on the Nintendo DS. How good do you think it is? It's awkward and repetitive to play (lots of "smash all the boxes" challenges...) and the plot is paper-thin. They had one idea, and they blow it entirely on the last act. The combat system is almost okay... except that it's on the DS, so the controls are awful.[/li]
[li]Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep - 2010 - The most puerile bullshit that Square's tried to foist as a story yet, coupled with a combat system that, while initially promising and challenging, quickly Magnet Spirals out of control. Did I mention that this is the most puerile bullshit that Square's tried to foist as a story yet? This may be the most badly written game they've ever produced, and that includes the next game on this list.[/li]
[li]Final Fantasy XIII - 2010 - If you attach the "Final Fantasy" name to the same poor qualities seen in The Last Remnant, apparently that means 80+ review scores. We waited another four years for the next entry in the series. The verdict? Arguably one of the worst video games of all time, ever. Un-engaging combat system that essentially doesn't need the player to interact with it, coupled with a lousy exploration scheme that makes it feel like no effort was put into making the game's world believable. The funny thing? Not many people know that this thing's content was thrown together in about six months. They didn't have any gameplay developed or any story written until they released the demo alongside Advent Children Complete in November 2009. And that was all they had.[/li]
[li]Final Fantasy XIV - 2010 - Following one of the worst single-player RPGs of all time, arguably one of the worst MMORPGs of all time! Don't take my word for it, though, just ask CEO Yoichi Wada, who issued a public apology for this game and immediately extended the free trial indefinitely. I believe that Square has yet to make a single dollar off this turkey.[/li]
[/ul]

BOTTOM LINE: Square has no sense of focus as a developer. They can't develop titles efficiently, they can't create a good enough sense of focus to support their apparently-narrative-centric approach and create even basically competent stories, let alone engaging or relatable ones, and it's been a very long time since they've developed a game that was actually fun to play.

Mileage may vary, depending on peoples' tolerance or acceptance of the negative qualities of the above games. Even so, it's difficult to ignore that they take way too long to release low-to-average quality material and have a poor sense of accountability. They'll give a press release one year ("towns are too hard to make in HD! It's impossible! An FF7 Remake would take a million years to make!" -- Meanwhile Assassin's Creed 2 and inFamous had already come out) and change their tune the next (FFXIII-2 includes towns, settlements, and characters to talk to, so does Versus). In the past two years they've released major titles virtually un-tested or ignoring their user testing altogether (FFXIV, FFXIII). With all their reports of over-long development times, infighting within their dev teams, and constant waffling of direction with said major titles (FFXII, FFXIII), it's as if they're staffed entirely by student game designers; we feel like the parents, and they're lying to us about their report card.
Wow... I... I don't even know where to begin... this post owns so godamn hard...
I would like to point that it is HIS opinion, not an absolute truth.
so saying a post Owns is just inmature and hardly worth posting on a discussion.
 

Yusoof Shah

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Personally I think Square Enix USED to be great but their recently tittle has been kinda a bust . Their problem is that their focusing too much on Graphics and looking for new innovative gameplay mechanics(which aren't going well) . I felt that they sold out when they decided to Final Fantasy into an MMORPG . Final Fantasy is suppose to be an RPG not an MMORPG its suppose to tell EPIC stories. The MMORPG was just made by the company to earn revenue, not make a great game. They made a lot of tittles why give FF an MMO ? Final Fantasy 11 and 14 may as well been named something else . The only reason they made them into an mmo is because people are familiar with the tittle and fans will support the series. Its like Dragonball Evolution and the original manga/anime , the movie had the elements and the characters name but its totally different from anime .
 

Phoenix_XIII

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Ben Legend said:
They're not perfect, but heck, they have made some almost perfect games. I think they aren't afraid to try new stuff, which in modern day game development is rare.

On another note, here's hoping Final Fantasy 13 Versus is perfect. ;D
I can't wait until it comes out!
 

PekoponTAS

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To be honest, this topic is a prime example of one of the biggest reasons why I hate Square-Enix, which is its INCREDIBLY annoying fanbase. Square-Enix fans are the most defensive fanbase ever, and no matter how often Square-Enix releases horrible game after horrible game, the fans defend it like it's their religion or something. Square-Enix fans love to whine about how people "hate on FF7 to be cool", but speaking for myself, the real reason I hate it is because any potential interest I might have had in playing it has been drowned by the fans nagging me to play it, and questioning WHY I haven't played it. Then once I finally do try it and make fun of Cloud for having Popeye's shoulders and running with his arms flailing like they don't have any bones in them, the fans light their torches and flame me for all I'm worth. It's annoying because I WAS enjoying the game, but once that happened, I lost all interest.

It's a weird feeling, but surely you've all experienced it. You know, that one friend of yours who keeps nagging you to watch/play/do something with them, and the more they bug you about it the less you want to do it? Now imagine that same feeling, but with about a million internet nerds doing it to you. It's infuriating, and it just makes the fanbase impossible to deal with, and thus makes you hate the company responsible for it.

Though while people often complain about the FF7 fanbase being annoying, they're nothing compared to the Chrono Trigger fanbase. The Chrono Trigger fanbase makes me want to bang my head against the wall every time they speak. Whenever I hear "Chrono Trigger is one of the greatest games of all time" or something to that effect, there's a part of my brain that snaps, and a flow of rage comes flowing in. Chrono Trigger fans simply won't shut the hell up about how much they love the game, and criticize anyone who HASN'T played it as if they're some sort of lesser being.

But what else do I hate about Square-Enix? Well aside from the fanbase, I think a big problem I have with them is that they don't feel like a company that has any soul whatsoever. They don't have any particularity noteworthy people that speak at events, and most of all they have no sense of humour. This is the company that pretty much CREATED the traditional JRPG story, and 90% of the cliches that go with it. There's nothing wrong with that, but the problem is that they KEEP using the same plot and cliches, and rarely do anything differently. Oh sure they do change the settings, and some of the core concepts of the plots are quite unique, but they still usually end up going through the same basic story progression as any of their other games. I don't feel any reason to like the company because they all feel like cliched JRPG making robots. The annoying this is that they could so easily fix this if they just lightened up a bit and, to steal an overused phrase from Yahtzee, take the piss out of themselves.

All of Square-Enix's JRPGs take themselves way too freaking seriously, what with the over the top angst and drama which is drawn out in endless annoying cutscenes, and they really need to just lighten up and have fun. What they need to do is make their own "Mario & Luigi: Super Star Saga", but with Final Fantasy. The Mario and Luigi games not only make fun of the Mario games and JRPGs, but they also take some pretty harsh jabs at Nintendo as a company. It's great because it's nice to see Nintendo admitting to a lot of the things gamers complain about them, and I think that this is exactly the sort of thing Square-Enix needs to do, because at least then we could be sure that there are real human beings running the company.

A big example of them needing to lighten up is that they have a franchise which is a crossover of Disney and Final Fantasyesque JRPGs, but do they have fun with it? Of course not. They play it seriously, and it becomes a series that really feels like it doesn't know what the hell it's trying to do. If they were to take it in a more silly direction, and actually USE the cast of the Final Fantasy games in them as the main characters, it could be hilarious. Just the unlikely pairings alone would be great, like Barrett and Piglet teaming up, or having a scene where Mortimer Mouse hits on Tifa, making sure to include his trademarked "Hat-cha-cha!", or best of all, sending Aerith and Mufasa on a mission together, only to have them both get killed in a silly way.

There are still tons of other complaints I have with them, like the over-abundance of cutscenes, or the fact that they won't let Nintendo use anyone from Super Mario RPG without a name in the credits and a note from Jesus, but this has gone on long enough. My point being, there are a TON of genuine reasons to hate Square-Enix, and believe me, I could have gone on for twice as long as I already have.
 

dodged

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i admit that square enix have had some decent games; the kingdom hearts sequels and TWEWY.. although you have to admit, the final fantasy franchise has gone downhill since square joined with enix. Yes, they're trying new battle systems and stat systems.. but i think, if it aint broke, dont break it; the systems that were devised for final fantasy 7,8 and 9 were all fantasic ways of doing it, so why change the whole thing? I would say thats my biggest problem with it. Either its square that have fell downhill or enix have pushed them down the hill. I must admit they did make final fantasy: Advent children really well, along with crisis core.. although nobody stops to think it was the earlier, more credible square that laid the foundations for it; maybe that's why they were made so well?
 

Guitarmasterx7

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Phoenix_XIII said:
It's not that I get personally offended, but people don't give a good reason to complain. People didn't complain when Just Cause 2 came out but they'll go straight to insult them with their JRPGs.
They make a decent game and people don't complain, and they make bad games and people complain? I don't understand what you aren't getting here.

Ok, maybe that's not a completely fair generalization. I'm not really into the genre so maybe I can't judge, but I've heard that even final fantasy fans didn't really like 11-13 much and that 14 is a disaster, so I would say that running a beloved franchise into the ground for 4 games strait isn't really a good way to keep a fanbase happy.
 

xPixelatedx

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I have never seen a series go so far down a crapper as Final fantasy has.. well, ok, Sonic. But Final fantasy? That's just cruel. That's my problem with Square; that and they refuse to make any games their fans would actually want. Like a FF7 remake. I don't want one, but I know how popular the idea is, and Square admitted they know that as well. Hell, the trailer for this imaginary remake sold PS3's. But they told their fans off and said they know better. Same thing with Kingdom Hearts. We'll probably never see a #3 at this rate.

Yeah, a very bad company with horrible business practices.
 

PekoponTAS

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Phoenix_XIII said:
Hammeroj said:
What's with being this defensive about Square Enix? Do you get personally offended when someone criticises them?

They suck, therefore people criticise and complain about them. You may think it's a sad waste of life, but that's where you can buzz off or try to refute the arguments people put forth.
It's not that I get personally offended, but people don't give a good reason to complain. People didn't complain when Just Cause 2 came out but they'll go straight to insult them with their JRPGs.
You gotta keep in mind though that Square-Enix didn't actually MAKE Just Cause 2.
 

Akihiko

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Guitarmasterx7 said:
Phoenix_XIII said:
It's not that I get personally offended, but people don't give a good reason to complain. People didn't complain when Just Cause 2 came out but they'll go straight to insult them with their JRPGs.
They make a decent game and people don't complain, and they make bad games and people complain? I don't understand what you aren't getting here.

Ok, maybe that's not a completely fair generalization. I'm not really into the genre so maybe I can't judge, but I've heard that even final fantasy fans didn't really like 11-13 much and that 14 is a disaster, so I would say that running a beloved franchise into the ground for 4 games strait isn't really a good way to keep a fanbase happy.
The fact that you lump together all Final Fantasy fans together is part of the problem.

Due to the series' popularity, the fanbase is vast and has thousands of different opinions. Some want it to go back to the NES-era, others want another Final Fantasy 7, and so on. Infact, it would be rather impossible to please everyone, considering that fact.

Personally, I'm happy they're actually trying to change things a bit with each installment. I'd take that over the graphically updated clones other companys seem to get away with, yet their fanbases seem to love them for it.
 

Phoenix_XIII

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Akihiko said:
Guitarmasterx7 said:
Phoenix_XIII said:
It's not that I get personally offended, but people don't give a good reason to complain. People didn't complain when Just Cause 2 came out but they'll go straight to insult them with their JRPGs.
They make a decent game and people don't complain, and they make bad games and people complain? I don't understand what you aren't getting here.

Ok, maybe that's not a completely fair generalization. I'm not really into the genre so maybe I can't judge, but I've heard that even final fantasy fans didn't really like 11-13 much and that 14 is a disaster, so I would say that running a beloved franchise into the ground for 4 games strait isn't really a good way to keep a fanbase happy.
The fact that you lump together all Final Fantasy fans together is part of the problem.

Due to the series' popularity, the fanbase is vast and has thousands of different opinions. Some want it to go back to the NES-era, others want another Final Fantasy 7, and so on. Infact, it would be rather impossible to please everyone, considering that fact.

Personally, I'm happy they're actually trying to change things a bit with each installment. I'd take that over the graphically updated clones other companys seem to get away with, yet their fanbases seem to love them for it.
Oi. I agree.
 

Korten12

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I am enjoying The Last Remnant (japanese voices), so far, so I can't complain.
 

inkheart_artist

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I generally buy games to play them, not watch 20 hours of cliche anime-esque cut scenes. That's why I hate Square. Maybe its the other way though, maybe if other people decide its not their cup of tea you should leave them alone instead of antagonizing them.