Piracy and the Industry.

[Hateren47]

Actually pirates don't take anything unless we are talking about robbery on the high seas.

Not taking anything? So that song/program/movie just magically appeared on the hard drive?

The rationalization is amazing.

You are gonna shit yourself when the matter replicator is invented, right? All those damn thieves on Star Trek. Fucking space pirates.

At least I am rational.

I will admit it's copyright infringement, but it has never been theft, taking or magic. It's copying. Lets say you bought yourself a nice designer chair and I copied it in my garage. Would that be stealing? No. Did I take your chair? No. Did it appear by magic? No. Am I infringing some ones copyright? Most likely yes.

 

[MisterShine]

~Paraphrasing for pirating in general, I don't think you can copyright a chair~

You are acquiring something that does not belong to you, and you have no right to obtain.

You are stealing. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stealing]

 

[AlanShore]

~Paraphrasing for pirating in general, I don't think you can copyright a chair~

You are acquiring something that does not belong to you, and you have no right to obtain.

You are stealing. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stealing]

How about you look at the definition from the Theft Act 1968...

A person shall be guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

Now explain how copying the chair is permanently depriving him of it or its use.

 

[MisterShine]

You are acquiring something that does not belong to you, and you have no right to obtain.

You are stealing. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stealing]

How about you look at the definition from the Theft Act 1968...

A person shall be guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

Now explain how copying the chair is permanently depriving him of it or its use.

I'm not talking about what crime a person should be charged with if they pirate things. There are many, many forms of "stealing" in this country. And I'm also pretty sure his example of a chair that he copied the design of is flawed, as I don't think you can copyright a chair.

What my post is talking is what you're doing as a person if you pirate copyrighted material: You are taking something that does not belong to you, and to which you have no right to take. You have stolen it.

You can steal an idea. You can steal an identity. You can steal a heart.

 

[Hateren47]

~Paraphrasing for pirating in general, I don't think you can copyright a chair~

You are acquiring something that does not belong to you, and you have no right to obtain.

You are stealing. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stealing]

Look again mate [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/copyright+infringement], copyright infringement only has one definition and it's not theft. Also I'm pretty damn sure you can copyright [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/copyright] a design (artistic work) of anything including furniture.

 

[NotSoNimble]

I steal and make excuses for it!

LOL! I love how people refuse to state that they are dirty thieving whores.

Admit it, you are in the wrong and you you don't have a conscience.

You will get bonus points for not even caring in the first place!

I love how you all strive to try to make yourselves out to be better than trash!

I honestly never tire of the self righteous, self centered, "OMG I deserve stuff for free because I am a bum!"

You all make me sick, but then again, I don't think any of you will ever wake up from your dreamland.

I will pray for you.

Good Luck being evil and selfish beyond reasonable points.

Just remember: you deserve more just for being you!

 

[MisterShine]

Also I'm pretty damn sure you can copyright [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/copyright] a design (artistic work) of anything including furniture.

True. After I posted that I actually googled copyrighting chair designs. My request for faulty analogy is withdrawn.

Look again mate [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/copyright+infringement], copyright infringement only has one definition and it's not theft.

All copyright infringement is stealing, but not all stealing is copyright infringement. I said this very thing one post above you..

I'm not talking about what crime a person should be charged with if they pirate things. There are many, many forms of "stealing" in this [del]country.[/del] world

I will refer you to that above post for a better explanation of my point.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

The laws are made by people with enough money to lobby effectively and they think that copying content is a worse crime than people stealing from each other because it might lower their profits by 0.01% and can be directly blamed for their hair loss and haemorrhoids. It's only a matter of time for it to go from being called piracy, which it isn't, to theft, which it isn't, to artist manslaughter or whatever bullshit term they think correctly sums up the earth shaking gravity of the situation.

 

[Wardnath]

ITT: "wahhhhh pirates eat babies"

Shut up and stop making these fucking threads.

 

[Kapol]

I'll point to this for the most part: http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/03/30/93-music-piracy/

While I am very much against piracy in general, I also realize that many who pirate won't change their mind on the matter. They'll normally say it's not so bad for reason A or B, though the fact still remains that they're getting something for free that you're supposed to pay for. So arguing with a pirate is about the same as arguing with a brick wall.

 

[Hateren47]

snip

I know what you are saying, I'm just saying it's incorrect. Copyright infringement is both bad and wrong (badong] but it's not theft. Let me quote from wikipedia:

[url"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft"]Wikipedia[/url]
In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent. The word is also used as an informal shorthand term for some crimes against property, such as burglary, embezzlement, larceny, looting, robbery, shoplifting, fraud and sometimes criminal conversion. In some jurisdictions, theft is considered to be synonymous with larceny; in others, theft has replaced larceny.

Someone who carries out an act of or makes a career of theft is known as a thief, and the act of theft is known as stealing, thieving, or sometimes filching.

I snipped your post because the quote-tags didn't work.

 

[Frequen-Z]

Meh, since I got a job, if I download something and enjoy it, I'll go buy the CD, too.

I'm not gonna waste money buying CDs I don't know that I fully like or not.

The same logic is applied even better to films, I wanted to watch Batman Begins/A Scanner Darkly/District 9/Soylent Green but of course, if a film hasn't been in the cinema for years, and I have no money to buy or rent, I'm either left with the choices of;-
-Downloading it, seeing if I like it
-Waiting until I had money and potentially wasting it on a film I didn't like

So what I did was made a list, if I downloaded a film and enjoyed it, I put it on a list with the promise of buying it later. And when I got a job, I did buy all of those.[footnote]I originally had Lord of the Rings on that list, but since the Extended versions haven't been released on blu-ray yet, I'm still waiting to purchase it[/footnote] If I downloaded and watched a film I didn't like, then who has really lost out? I save myself the money needed to risk a purchase I wouldn't enjoy, and the big companies aren't losing money, they're just not gaining mine.

However, I know that mentality does not always apply to music, specifically smaller bands and labels that rely on CD sales. Downloading music without any intent to purchase if you enjoy it is pretty cold hearted. If you don't have a job, then make a list like I did, and stick to it, the small timers need the money.

I'm less sympathetic to the bigger labels and bands.

 

[barash]

I won't buy anything without trying it first, be it a car, bike, game, trousers, album or anything else.

That said, I have 76 games on Steam and hardcopies of around 30 more. If I hadn't been trying-before-buying I would have bought less than half of them because they did not seem interesting until I actually experienced the gameplay and enjoyed it. My piracy have ensured the the industry A LOT more income than if I did not try-before-buy.

Some of you don't like it and I'm fine with that. But do I consider it stealing? Heck no, I consider everything I download a demo, and if the demo is good I'll support the creators.

Who does this really hurt? The creators/publishers of shitty products. Loads of publishers release their stuff still in the alpha/beta stage for full market value and then try to patch their product to something decent down the line. Which usually takes a few months, some games just gets abandoned completely when shipped and never work properly at all. And I refuse to pay for this practice until the patches are released and the product actually works as advertised.

 

[Glamorgan]

One of my favorite artists put it this way:

"I would love to give my music away for free. I would like everybody to swim in my albums and I'd mail them to everybody in a Christmas card. I'd also like to get a free Thanskgiving turkey, free clothes for my kids, free food for my table and a brand-new, free fishing boat.

But that's not the world I live in. Until then I'll be against piracy."

Sooooo...

If we send them a turkey, we are allowed to pirate things?!

Aha! The simple solution!

 

[Deshin]

~Paraphrasing for pirating in general, I don't think you can copyright a chair~

You are acquiring something that does not belong to you, and you have no right to obtain.

You are stealing. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stealing]

It's more like taking a photo of a painting. No you did not steal the painting, you copied it.

Stealing existed before computer data did and it cannot realistically be applied. That's like saying hacking someone and deleting his email account is murder or *insert name of modern tech related taboo* is *insert name of actual pysical crime from hundreds of years ago*

 

[Marmooset]

Actually pirates don't take anything unless we are talking about robbery on the high seas.

Not taking anything? So that song/program/movie just magically appeared on the hard drive?

The rationalization is amazing.

You are gonna shit yourself when the matter replicator is invented, right? All those damn thieves on Star Trek. Fucking space pirates.

At least I am rational.

I will admit it's copyright infringement, but it has never been theft, taking or magic. It's copying. Lets say you bought yourself a nice designer chair and I copied it in my garage. Would that be stealing? No. Did I take your chair? No. Did it appear by magic? No. Am I infringing some ones copyright? Most likely yes.

A) Did you really just resort to a patently ridiculous TV show invention to counter my argument? Really??
B) Rationalization and being rational are pretty close to complete opposites. See that spot way in the distance? Yeah, that's it. Now, say piracy helps the economy, and watch it get even smaller.
C) Well the anology is faulty, because in it you've actually worked on a chair, and created it. It'd be closer to say you'd swiped an unindexed, uncatologued extra chair off a lot, and no one will miss it. But I'll go with your anology: If it is the same to the point of forgery, you've at least stolen the design.

 

[Hateren47]

Snip

A) Did you really just resort to a patently ridiculous TV show invention to counter my argument? Really??
B) Rationalization and being rational are pretty close to complete opposites. See that spot way in the distance? Yeah, that's it. Now, say piracy helps the economy, and watch it get even smaller.
C) Well the anology is faulty, because in it you've actually worked on a chair, and created it. It'd be closer to say you'd swiped an unindexed, uncatologued extra chair off a lot, and no one will miss it. But I'll go with your anology: If it is the same to the point of forgery, you've at least stolen the design.

Oh I'm sorry. I thought we were being ridiculous when you started talking about magic. I didn't know you were still taking the debate seriously.

So because it takes longer and takes a little skill to make a chair than burning a DVD it's okay? It's still copyright infringement. It's the same thing just a little harder. I can agree with you that its close to forgery, though I would have said counterfeiting to make your argument for you. Being in the same ballpark doesn't mean i's the same though. It has, in the legal sense, nothing to do with theft, robbery, forgery, counterfeiting, magic, Star Trek, murder, running a stop sign, drunk driving, taking candy from children, rape or Robot Wars. It's copyright infringement, nothing more.