Bollocks. The piracy rate might be that high for PC (and even then I am highly skeptical of it being that high), but I highly doubt it is that high for console games, let alone all games across all systems.
Piracy Outpacing Sales by 4:1, Says U.K. Game Body
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Just because things are a certain way does not mean that that was is the correct and final way they will be.
Just because a studio can make a killing profit on a game doesn't mean that it should.
MOST games released make a profit - but for the greedy greedy production corporations that rule them - it isn't enough.
Who the fuck made itmandatory that if you make a good movie or good game, you need to be awarded with so much money that you don't know what to do with it all?? It's just that the business model worked out that way (which doesn't mean its set in stone).
What makes me, a level designer who is supposedly in it for the passion of my art - more valuable than a university professor? a high school teacher? or any other professional? Why should I get 2000 times more than those other people? Same goes with being an actor or a band. Why should I get pissed that instead of making 20million I make 1million or instead of making 500,000 I make 80,000? It is still more than enough for a great life..
Just because certain fields can be exploited to yield unwarranted amounts of money doesn't mean they must keep doing that or the world will end.
Piracy as it exists right now, takes a small amount out of profits of business administrations sponsoring companies, bands, actors and puts it in the pockets of other professionals. As someone in the software industry my view is to let the greedy business people handle the issue of piracy while I focus on perfecting my art. As long as I can have a reasonable and happy life with my family, I will be happy to get my software to as many as possible.
Just because a studio can make a killing profit on a game doesn't mean that it should.
MOST games released make a profit - but for the greedy greedy production corporations that rule them - it isn't enough.
Who the fuck made itmandatory that if you make a good movie or good game, you need to be awarded with so much money that you don't know what to do with it all?? It's just that the business model worked out that way (which doesn't mean its set in stone).
What makes me, a level designer who is supposedly in it for the passion of my art - more valuable than a university professor? a high school teacher? or any other professional? Why should I get 2000 times more than those other people? Same goes with being an actor or a band. Why should I get pissed that instead of making 20million I make 1million or instead of making 500,000 I make 80,000? It is still more than enough for a great life..
Just because certain fields can be exploited to yield unwarranted amounts of money doesn't mean they must keep doing that or the world will end.
Piracy as it exists right now, takes a small amount out of profits of business administrations sponsoring companies, bands, actors and puts it in the pockets of other professionals. As someone in the software industry my view is to let the greedy business people handle the issue of piracy while I focus on perfecting my art. As long as I can have a reasonable and happy life with my family, I will be happy to get my software to as many as possible.
You ask me to pay to watch Sex in the City 2. I will just laugh at you. You let me watch it for free, I will give it a shot. Actually on second thoughts....Low Key said:
What annoys my more about these stupid stats statements, is that the journos doing the interviews never question these dumb statements. Wheres the journalism. Talk about being an industry mouth piece.
More content industry ass pulled numbers.
Imagine he was talking about books and libraries instead of games and downloading:
"For every book purchased from a store 10 are checked out from a library. This 'sharing' costs the publishing industry umpteenbrazillion dollars every year according to a study we paid people do it. The only sensible conclusion is to shut down all libraries or else there will be no more books written evar!"
Imagine he was talking about books and libraries instead of games and downloading:
"For every book purchased from a store 10 are checked out from a library. This 'sharing' costs the publishing industry umpteenbrazillion dollars every year according to a study we paid people do it. The only sensible conclusion is to shut down all libraries or else there will be no more books written evar!"
A long time ago I paid for a couple of pirated games. They were on this computer called an Apple 2c. I had to pay the costs to get new blank 5.25 inch disks so that we could have the games copied onto them. I wish I could remember the names of those games, because I'd try to find them again, in a non-magnetic medium that wouldn't be completely corrupted.zwober said:
Well said, I was having this train of thought the other day and forgot about it. Might write a thread on this later...Lightnr said:
Oh no, piracy, lets all rage against it. Listen, kids die of cancer, warlords in Africa participate in Genocidal activities everyday, and the world economy is in shambles. Let's worry about piracy!
Also, for the record, this is not an excuse as to why games are so much. It has nothing to do with piracy and everything to do with the fact that game budges can get higher than summer blockbuster movie budgets. Companies employ a team of 100 or more, in some cases, to make a big game. This is not necessary to make a good game, though it has had favorable results. But the I remember buying 3D Dotgame Heroes, it cost $40, and it was freakin' superb.
Also, take into account that he is merely estimating what the ratio is, and I'm positive that he has no idea what the real numbers are. I do know that if I was trying to make a strong case against something, I would skew the numbers my way if I was allowed to estimage something like that.
Remember, there are three parts to a persuasive argument, the ethos, pathos and logos. All arguments should be won based on the logos, which is non existent here, but the ethos and the pathos are pretty strong. I'm not convinced, that's for sure.
And to make the correlation equals causation folks happy, just because it's pirated by someone, doesn't mean they would have invested their hard earned money into it if they had not the ability to pirate it. It works the other way too though, just because they pirated it, doesn't mean they would buy it.
CHEERS!
Also, for the record, this is not an excuse as to why games are so much. It has nothing to do with piracy and everything to do with the fact that game budges can get higher than summer blockbuster movie budgets. Companies employ a team of 100 or more, in some cases, to make a big game. This is not necessary to make a good game, though it has had favorable results. But the I remember buying 3D Dotgame Heroes, it cost $40, and it was freakin' superb.
Also, take into account that he is merely estimating what the ratio is, and I'm positive that he has no idea what the real numbers are. I do know that if I was trying to make a strong case against something, I would skew the numbers my way if I was allowed to estimage something like that.
Remember, there are three parts to a persuasive argument, the ethos, pathos and logos. All arguments should be won based on the logos, which is non existent here, but the ethos and the pathos are pretty strong. I'm not convinced, that's for sure.
And to make the correlation equals causation folks happy, just because it's pirated by someone, doesn't mean they would have invested their hard earned money into it if they had not the ability to pirate it. It works the other way too though, just because they pirated it, doesn't mean they would buy it.
CHEERS!
Well, it's a big assumption to assume that someone pirating a game would have bought it if the pirate version was not availible. A lot of people might be trying the games just because they are free. As others have said, there is no way to lose sales to people who never would have bought a product anyway.
In my case I don't defend piracy, since it IS stealing, but I really can't defend the industry and the way it operates either. What's more, it's hard to be sympathetic when your looking at a thriving multi-billion dollar industry, that wants to use that piracy and the belief that they could be making more money to install DRM/Spyware/Crippleware on your system.
What's more their arguements are based on a lot of misdirection. The creative people rarely suffer from piracy. What happens is that a producer provides the money to make these games, those huge development budgets are what the people doing the creative are getting paid in the way of salaries and wages. By the time a game comes out, the creative team has already been paid. The product goes to the producer, and any profits or losses from the product influance him, not the creative people behind it who are generally seeing absolutly no share of the game's sales.
Now there are exceptions to this, like when a game developer borrows money itself to develop a game. The money they borrow is more or less to pay themselves during development however. In that case as they are their own producer they are hoping to make enough money in sales to pay back the loan and interest and have some left over. Even if this fails though, this means they still got paid for the work they did.
The big risk involved here is more along the lines of producers no longer wanting to invest money, or loan it to game development companies. In the end though billions of dollars are being made overall, and there is no shortage of people willing to invest money in this right now even with piracy.
This is why it's hard to determine if piracy actually has any effect on the game industry, since producers aren't exactly slowing down in putting up money, and as long as they make a profit they never will, it's all whining about how much more money they think they could be making. I wouldn't care, except instead of just whining, I get garbage like DRM put on my system.
At any rate, a lot of the hype against piracy is an outright lie. By a game existing the creative people have already gotten paid. Even in cases of a developer borrowing money from a bank or investment group to produce itself, your typical writer, coder, or graphics artist is not seeing any share of those profits. Anyone who puts up the "your stealing from a poor game coder" arguement is lying to your face for purposes of propaganda, that guy got paid out of that multi-million dollar development budget. Unless piracy stops people from investing or loaning money, it's irrelevent in the big picture.
... or in short, your making billions, the pirates might be thieves but I'm a legitimate customer and keep your bloody crippleware and "internet verification" garbage off my system. There are plenty of investors putting money into this stuff, so don't try and justify making my gaming miserable because some dude thinks that instead of a hundred million in profits he could have had four million in profits. That's like crying because your Lamborgini is two years old, or your private jet doesn't have mink carpets. If I was operating on that level I might want more myself, but I'm not going to start terrorizing my customers over it, and that's exactly what is going on here.
In my case I don't defend piracy, since it IS stealing, but I really can't defend the industry and the way it operates either. What's more, it's hard to be sympathetic when your looking at a thriving multi-billion dollar industry, that wants to use that piracy and the belief that they could be making more money to install DRM/Spyware/Crippleware on your system.
What's more their arguements are based on a lot of misdirection. The creative people rarely suffer from piracy. What happens is that a producer provides the money to make these games, those huge development budgets are what the people doing the creative are getting paid in the way of salaries and wages. By the time a game comes out, the creative team has already been paid. The product goes to the producer, and any profits or losses from the product influance him, not the creative people behind it who are generally seeing absolutly no share of the game's sales.
Now there are exceptions to this, like when a game developer borrows money itself to develop a game. The money they borrow is more or less to pay themselves during development however. In that case as they are their own producer they are hoping to make enough money in sales to pay back the loan and interest and have some left over. Even if this fails though, this means they still got paid for the work they did.
The big risk involved here is more along the lines of producers no longer wanting to invest money, or loan it to game development companies. In the end though billions of dollars are being made overall, and there is no shortage of people willing to invest money in this right now even with piracy.
This is why it's hard to determine if piracy actually has any effect on the game industry, since producers aren't exactly slowing down in putting up money, and as long as they make a profit they never will, it's all whining about how much more money they think they could be making. I wouldn't care, except instead of just whining, I get garbage like DRM put on my system.
At any rate, a lot of the hype against piracy is an outright lie. By a game existing the creative people have already gotten paid. Even in cases of a developer borrowing money from a bank or investment group to produce itself, your typical writer, coder, or graphics artist is not seeing any share of those profits. Anyone who puts up the "your stealing from a poor game coder" arguement is lying to your face for purposes of propaganda, that guy got paid out of that multi-million dollar development budget. Unless piracy stops people from investing or loaning money, it's irrelevent in the big picture.
... or in short, your making billions, the pirates might be thieves but I'm a legitimate customer and keep your bloody crippleware and "internet verification" garbage off my system. There are plenty of investors putting money into this stuff, so don't try and justify making my gaming miserable because some dude thinks that instead of a hundred million in profits he could have had four million in profits. That's like crying because your Lamborgini is two years old, or your private jet doesn't have mink carpets. If I was operating on that level I might want more myself, but I'm not going to start terrorizing my customers over it, and that's exactly what is going on here.
4:1 implies that out of 5 copies, 20% will be legitimate. ("For ea 1, create 4")
That means: For each legitimate purchase, at most, 1 sale can be attributed to post-piracy purchases.
To be more clear: For every "Try and buy pirate", there are at least 3 other pirates who never paid. And this model mathematically assumes that EVERYONE who bought legitimately pirated it first, which obviously isn't the case; because there are obviously customers who never pirated the game first before buying it. They just bought it regularly.
While I cannot state what percentage of "try and buy" pirates actually justify their claims by purchasing after the fact, I can say that the percentage (based on the 4:1 ratio provided) is less than 25% (among the pirate part of the proportion); and it's probably FAR less than that.
That means: For each legitimate purchase, at most, 1 sale can be attributed to post-piracy purchases.
To be more clear: For every "Try and buy pirate", there are at least 3 other pirates who never paid. And this model mathematically assumes that EVERYONE who bought legitimately pirated it first, which obviously isn't the case; because there are obviously customers who never pirated the game first before buying it. They just bought it regularly.
While I cannot state what percentage of "try and buy" pirates actually justify their claims by purchasing after the fact, I can say that the percentage (based on the 4:1 ratio provided) is less than 25% (among the pirate part of the proportion); and it's probably FAR less than that.
That's not correct. Very few games are "smash hits". Many eke out a marginal profit or break even. More than a few lose money.Lightnr said:
I had a reference on this, but now can't remember where it is. I'll dig for it and post a link when I can find it again.
-- Steve
PS: I hate reCaptcha. "Foorivic" yourself, stupid 'bot.
His analogy actually works....if those 10 books came from the aether.Baresark said:
You might not be aware of this, but libraries buy books too.
Except that it most of the time provide the pirate with a better product than we filthy costumers are stupid enough to buy. And that for me, is the only thing that matters. Almost every time I'm stupid enough to buy a game I get screwed over by install limits, always on punishment, server checks, rootkits, Starforce or something else. It's like paying to get kicked in the balls. Again and again. Sometimes I wonder if not the pirates are on to something.Andy Chalk said:
From the top of my head; games that I have problems playing or outright can't play:
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory: StarForce don't work in 64bit and I couldn't play at launch due to faulty serial with the game.
Resident Evil 5: GFWL
Batman AA: GFWL
Dragon Age: Biowares horrendous content manager for the DLC doesn't work. Bought the game at launch. Have installed it numerous times on 3 different OS. Still doesn't work. Fuck you Bioware.
Far Cry 2: SecuROM, happily patched out now.
Risen: Steam ran out of keys, TAGES only has 3 activations. Why that even happens when it's on Steam is anyones guess.
There are more but I can't be assed to make a full list.
So, mr. Industry Guy, the consumers are already saddled with the sub-standard product. From where I'm sitting the pirates are getting the best deal, while I am a lot of money poorer and a lot of bad experiences richer.
As for the people who sell pirated software: please don't lump them in with regular pirates. Back in the late '90s I pirated some games. I never made a damn cent on it.
I kind of want the industry to go out of business.
Just to see what will happen.
Don't lie, you're curious too.
Just to see what will happen.
Don't lie, you're curious too.
How do they account for none retail sales? In the last year the industries best statistics company stopped doing a 'top selling games of the quarter' report because they had no information from digital sales, making the list a farce; yet this nationally restrained body can summon relevant sales stats that they can weigh against their equally fantastic piracy figures.Raven said:
Are my steam and Gog games illegal now and not worth accounting or is this trade body far more informed than everyone else?
Yes, we all know piracy is bad for the industry but bleating about it is making the industry look bad to potential investors; making it seem worse than it is can only harm their own members in the long run.
I have only ever pirated games I have previously bought so atleast i'm not contributing to that figure.