Please Sign This Petition, Racism/Sexism Isn't Okay If Its Against Straight White Men

[shrekfan246]

ITT: The internet outrage machine rages on.

You wouldn't think this would be a controversial statement, but white men don't need to be welcome in literally every discussion that's ever held anywhere. A term that's often mockingly applied to people is "mansplaining", which is particularly relevant in such situations as having a ton of white guys talking about how to diversify a large body of people.

Also, given the number of people who think "#killallmen" is literally calling for the genocide of half the human race, you'll have to forgive me if I don't take "#killallwhitemen" and "#misandry" at face value.

That said, "I can't be racist because I'm an ethnic minority" is still a silly claim. It's a loaded term, but if you harbor any irrational or unfounded prejudices for people based on their physical appearances or cultural heritage, surprise, you're probably not as tolerant as you like to think you are.

 

[Zontar]

Oh my, how did she get through a law school without knowing racism and sexism is of hate/ignorance, not power? Do we call racially motivated crimes "power crimes" or "hate crimes"?

There are so many things in this world that would be absolutely hilarious if only they weren't so tragic. This is one of them.

The reason is because she's using the sociological definition of racism [http://sociology.about.com/od/R_Index/fl/Racism.htm], which is based on power, instead of the definition literally everything else in both academia and society as a whole does. Yes it's stupid, yes it means that the part of academia which uses it is admitting to being a waste of money, time and resources in general by not being useful in any way, shape or form, and yes the only people who would be using this are the definition of parasites, and no, neither she nor people like her care about these facts of life.

 

[Areloch]

ITT: The internet outrage machine rages on.

You wouldn't think this would be a controversial statement, but white men don't need to be welcome in literally every discussion that's ever held anywhere. A term that's often mockingly applied to people is "mansplaining", which is particularly relevant in such situations as having a ton of white guys talking about how to diversify a large body of people.

Also, given the number of people who think "#killallmen" is literally calling for the genocide of half the human race, you'll have to forgive me if I don't take "#killallwhitemen" and "#misandry" at face value.

That said, "I can't be racist because I'm an ethnic minority" is still a silly claim. It's a loaded term, but if you harbor any irrational or unfounded prejudices for people based on their physical appearances or cultural heritage, surprise, you're probably not as tolerant as you like to think you are.

Problem is, if, as renegade mentioned just above you, she had framed the meeting as being specifically for minorities and/or women, then no one would have cared. It's the fact that it specifically called out and mocked white men where the problem occurs. Her being specifically and directly combatitive towards a specific group is not something someone ostensibly working towards diversity should be doing.

That, and the whole 'actually makes you super racist and sexist' thing.

 

[jklinders]

Nothing more pathetic than a professional student milking her daddy dry well into what looks like her 30s as a student union rep spouting this shit. That's really all I have to say here. I'm on the wrong side of the pond or I would have signed the petition. Seems like the kind of thing that should be up to folks in the UK proper to decide. It's their money she's wasting after all.
pa-fucking-thetic.

 

[shrekfan246]

ITT: The internet outrage machine rages on.

You wouldn't think this would be a controversial statement, but white men don't need to be welcome in literally every discussion that's ever held anywhere. A term that's often mockingly applied to people is "mansplaining", which is particularly relevant in such situations as having a ton of white guys talking about how to diversify a large body of people.

Also, given the number of people who think "#killallmen" is literally calling for the genocide of half the human race, you'll have to forgive me if I don't take "#killallwhitemen" and "#misandry" at face value.

That said, "I can't be racist because I'm an ethnic minority" is still a silly claim. It's a loaded term, but if you harbor any irrational or unfounded prejudices for people based on their physical appearances or cultural heritage, surprise, you're probably not as tolerant as you like to think you are.

Problem is, if, as renegade mentioned just above you, she had framed the meeting as being specifically for minorities and/or women, then no one would have cared. It's the fact that it specifically called out and mocked white men where the problem occurs. Her being specifically and directly combatitive towards a specific group is not something someone ostensibly working towards diversity should be doing.

That, and the whole 'actually makes you super racist and sexist' thing.

"If you've been invited and you're a man and/or white PLEASE DON'T COME just cos I invited a bunch of people and hope you will be responsible enough to respect this is a BME [Black and Minority Ethnic] Women and non-binary event only,"

I'm getting the impression we have wildly different requirements for "specifically and directly combative" language.

Was it phrased in an exclusionary way? Sure. Still sounds like it was "framed as being specifically for minorities and/or women".

EDIT: To clarify, the follow-up picture was antagonistic and unprofessional as well; I won't argue against that. Pardon me if I don't think it's enough to get worked up into a frenzy that tries to get her fired, though.

If I got offended every time someone mocked my white cis male privilege, I'd stress myself to death in about two hours.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I have always viewed UK as a cultural melting pot, but some people want to make it into smaller divided pots and try to make some pots better than others. We'll nuts to those people, I'll sign.

That's actually what happened in the USA, they used minority racism to fracture the culture in to smaller segregated groups. You know rather than spread unity and sharing across all the cultural groups.

It's the nature of human society unfortunately. Once a group reches a certain point the members themselves eek to differentiate themselves from each other. When a group is formed people in the group feel elevated from those outside the group.. in away they feel 'Special'. When a group becomes more populous that feeling grows as every new member increases each other member's feeling of belonging.. but there comes a point where the size of the group starts having an inverse effect... there is when people start dividing, the groups... usually between the old guard and the new commers. The ones creating the division usually feeling their side of the division is better. And the process leads to intergroup strife, schisms, resettling and the process starts again.

You ever wonder why Christianity has so many damned sub-branches? Why even political parties have sub-groups?

You miss the point, this isn't about groups isolating themselves, this comes more from groups being isolated due to the way the government tries to "support" them when they're down on their luck. Which usually ends up with communities packed in to slums, isolated from the largely white middle class. So the segregation happens first on an economic level, then on the cultural ones, leaving communities isolated from sharing with each other.

 

[Areloch]

ITT: The internet outrage machine rages on.

You wouldn't think this would be a controversial statement, but white men don't need to be welcome in literally every discussion that's ever held anywhere. A term that's often mockingly applied to people is "mansplaining", which is particularly relevant in such situations as having a ton of white guys talking about how to diversify a large body of people.

Also, given the number of people who think "#killallmen" is literally calling for the genocide of half the human race, you'll have to forgive me if I don't take "#killallwhitemen" and "#misandry" at face value.

That said, "I can't be racist because I'm an ethnic minority" is still a silly claim. It's a loaded term, but if you harbor any irrational or unfounded prejudices for people based on their physical appearances or cultural heritage, surprise, you're probably not as tolerant as you like to think you are.

Problem is, if, as renegade mentioned just above you, she had framed the meeting as being specifically for minorities and/or women, then no one would have cared. It's the fact that it specifically called out and mocked white men where the problem occurs. Her being specifically and directly combatitive towards a specific group is not something someone ostensibly working towards diversity should be doing.

That, and the whole 'actually makes you super racist and sexist' thing.

"If you've been invited and you're a man and/or white PLEASE DON'T COME just cos I invited a bunch of people and hope you will be responsible enough to respect this is a BME [Black and Minority Ethnic] Women and non-binary event only,"

I'm getting the impression we have wildly different requirements for "specifically and directly combative" language.

Was it phrased in an exclusionary way? Sure. Still sounds like it was "framed as being specifically for minorities and/or women".

EDIT: To clarify, the follow-up picture was antagonistic and unprofessional as well; I won't argue against that. Pardon me if I don't think it's enough to get worked up into a frenzy that tries to get her fired, though.

If I got offended every time someone mocked my white cis male privilege, I'd stress myself to death in about two hours.

Needs more woosa ear massages!

You saw the image, OK. I was about to reply back about that. That behavior is the crux of the issue, I think.

However, if someone's job is to help founder diversity and welfare in the student body, being unprofessional, antagonistic, racist and sexist would probably be legitimate grounds to be fired. Would you disagree?

Personally, I'm not going to bother signing it or anything, but I don't believe a person with that attitude should be holding any official position about diversity. I don't think a internet mob is needed as much as rationally bringing the University's attention to it, but a petition is about as level-headed as the internet is going to get.

 

[Vigormortis]

"I, an ethnic minority woman, cannot be racist or sexist towards white men because racism and sexism describe structures of privilege based on race and gender and therefore women of colour and minority genders cannot be racist or sexist, since we do not stand to benefit from such a system."

Racism [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racist]
Sexism [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexist]

Uh huh...

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I can't...I don't....

This is who the students of that university appointed as Diversity Officer?

Ugh, this is giving me a headache. I think I've had enough internet for one day.

 

[shrekfan246]

However, if someone's job is to help founder diversity and welfare in the student body, being unprofessional, antagonistic, racist and sexist would probably be legitimate grounds to be fired. Would you disagree?

First of all, I'd say that we don't actually have enough information to definitively claim she is, in fact, racist and sexist. Mocking white men isn't inherently either. I mock white men all the time. I am a white man. Far be it for me to claim that it's suddenly not okay because someone who isn't a white man decided to do it.

EDIT (sorry): I will capitulate to the fact that "I'm not [X], because [Y]" tends to just be a poor excuse bigots throw out to mask their bigotry. But it's not like "discrimination can only come from a place of systematic oppression which can only be upheld by people who have more power" is a new idea, regardless of how right or wrong it may be. Just the other day I was told that abusers can't be abusers if they don't have physical control over the person they're abusing. [/EDIT]

Though I wouldn't disagree with your overall assertion, no.

Personally, I'm not going to bother signing it or anything, but I don't believe a person with that attitude should be holding any official position about diversity. I don't think a internet mob is needed as much as rationally bringing the University's attention to it, but a petition is about as level-headed as the internet is going to get.

Hopefully the university deals with this in a proper manner that ends up educating Ms. Mustafa on why the way she acted was perhaps the wrong way to do her job. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that the internet hate brigade is going to latch on to her regardless, and at this point I'm really just sick and tired of seeing people getting dogpiled because they said something stupid.

 

[Mechamorph]

You know, the statement "I can't be racist or sexist because I am a minority and a woman" not only defies the dictionary definition but it edges towards the territory of statements like "I can't be racist, some of my best friends are Black". Also I have noticed that some elements of that particular.... let's call it "affiliation" claim that they can basically do no wrong. Anything that makes them look bad is at best a misunderstanding, at worst a conspiracy. Now that's pretty damning; if you have to claim that you can do no wrong, its pretty obvious to everyone that you ARE. It is redundant after all to make claims which are self-evident. Also, if you have nothing to gain by making a statement then why are you making it? Logic has definitely taken a holiday here.

Of course being the daughter of wealthy parents means that she will never have to answer for her attitude. Can you imagine if you had to work a low to mid salary job with the attitude that all white males are "the enemy"? How long would you last? Makes me wonder about the circumstances of many of these women who fight for "diversity" and "equality". So much of it is basically hate speech that it would pretty much translate to "if the shoe were on the other foot, I'd break it in your behind". When people see this, how does it affect their view of their self-proclaimed "feminism"? Do they see it as a front for misandry and vile hatred? I think that's the main tragedy here. Although they claim to fight for equal rights, it is clear that their view of "equal" is all for us, none for you. In essence they are everything they hate but jealous that they lack the power to bring the jackboots back to the street. Any credible feminist might get tarred with the same brush because so much of this is in the conversation about women's rights. Face it, if what they said were true, they would be wearing a blindfold and given a cigarette long ago.

 

[Areloch]

However, if someone's job is to help founder diversity and welfare in the student body, being unprofessional, antagonistic, racist and sexist would probably be legitimate grounds to be fired. Would you disagree?

First of all, I'd say that we don't actually have enough information to definitively claim she is, in fact, racist and sexist. Mocking white men isn't inherently either. I mock white men all the time. I am a white man. Far be it for me to claim that it's suddenly not okay because someone who isn't a white man decided to do it.

EDIT (sorry): I will capitulate to the fact that "I'm not [X], because [Y]" tends to just be a poor excuse bigots throw out to mask their bigotry. But it's not like "discrimination can only come from a place of systematic oppression which can only be upheld by people who have more power" is a new idea, regardless of how right or wrong it may be. Just the other day I was told that abusers can't be abusers if they don't have physical control over the person they're abusing. [/EDIT]

Though I wouldn't disagree with your overall assertion, no.

Yeah, that's reasonable. It's not enough to definitively say she's racist/sexist, but boy howdy she does not make it easy on herself to indicate otherwise. Especially her "it's not possible to be racist against X because of Y" rhetoric.

Personally, I'm not going to bother signing it or anything, but I don't believe a person with that attitude should be holding any official position about diversity. I don't think a internet mob is needed as much as rationally bringing the University's attention to it, but a petition is about as level-headed as the internet is going to get.

Hopefully the university deals with this in a proper manner that ends up educating Ms. Mustafa on why the way she acted was perhaps the wrong way to do her job. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that the internet hate brigade is going to latch on to her regardless, and at this point I'm really just sick and tired of seeing people getting dogpiled because they said something stupid.

Aye, I agree with this. Which is why I mentioned that the best route is rationally bringing it to the University's attention. In an ideal situation, they'll review her behavior and if they feel it's a one-off, they'll sit her down and work the issue out so that everyone walks away better off. If they feel her behavior is too egregious or she's unlikely to change, then they should remove her from that post.

Whether that actually happens, we'll need to see, but it'd be nice to hope for. That said, I wouldn't be against the University restricting her ability to publicly post for a little while, to lessen the boil.

 

[shrekfan246]

Snip

Agreed all around.

Let's just say the reason I'm so cynically apathetic is because I don't have a lot of faith in the internet. If this causes the university to reasonably review her actions and something productive can come out of it, then fair enough. I just don't think that the internet will let it go after that, and I rather don't believe that people deserve to get swarmed by internet lynch mobs, especially if the situation has already been handled by their employers/whoever else is personally involved.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I find this kind of hilarious. I'd say just let her be crazy and it'll be her own downfall. Trying to oppose her will only be "proof" that men are keeping her down.

Spoiler: totally a picture of a white chick

She does look pretty white, doesn't she?

LOL she's totes white. Also, is the face she's making supposed to persuade white men not to show up? That picture is funny and confusing at the same time.

 

[And Man]

...at this point I'm really just sick and tired of seeing people getting dogpiled because they said something stupid.

That's Twitter for ya, especially when the stupid thing was said using an official organization's account.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

EDIT: To clarify, the follow-up picture was antagonistic and unprofessional as well; I won't argue against that. Pardon me if I don't think it's enough to get worked up into a frenzy that tries to get her fired, though.

Given the position she holds, she should be fired (and likely will be). It's not like she'd be getting fired from her job as Walmart Greeter. She's a diversity representative.

That said, she's also going to be on the receiving end of a social media lynching by the usual pack of idiots, which is lamentable, even if she counts amongst their number.

 

[shrekfan246]

EDIT: To clarify, the follow-up picture was antagonistic and unprofessional as well; I won't argue against that. Pardon me if I don't think it's enough to get worked up into a frenzy that tries to get her fired, though.

Given the position she holds, she should be fired (and likely will be). It's not like she'd be getting fired from her job as Walmart Greeter. She's a diversity representative.

Well, sure. I'm not denying that. I just --

That said, she's also going to be on the receiving end of a social media lynching by the usual pack of idiots, which is lamentable, even if she counts amongst their number.

-- don't think it's worth this. It should be a decision reached by the university as a natural result of her actions, not something the internet tries to pressure them to do (regardless of the relative impact or lack thereof said internet pressure will likely have).

 

[visiblenoise]

Eh, I think this petition thing is just as petty as she is.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Well, sure. I'm not denying that. I just --

That said, she's also going to be on the receiving end of a social media lynching by the usual pack of idiots, which is lamentable, even if she counts amongst their number.

-- don't think it's worth this. It should be a decision reached by the university as a natural result of her actions, not something the internet tries to pressure them to do (regardless of the relative impact or lack thereof said internet pressure will likely have).

An orderly petition is actually fine. I'm not going to sign it because I don't sign petitions unless I know absolutely every last thing there is to know on the subject (fool me once...) but it's a perfectly reasonable way to demonstrate discontent. It's a pretty egregious misstep, given the position she's paid to fill. This isn't a case where she made an off-color joke that got removed from context, she's being deliberately antagonistic. Usually employment is pretty sacrosanct but in this circumstance, I'd say this qualifies as a genuine firing offense.

My concern isn't petitions, it's the court of public opinion, which will launch the usual tirade of rape/death threats, doxxing, endless verbal abuse and harassment, etc. Everyone tends to chirp along with "harassment is bad" but I don't think people realize how life-destroying these highly public pile-ons are. We, as people, say or do ignorant and stupid shit all the time. Some of the crap I've heard people say ON THIS FORUM is pretty amazing. But we're not doing it on social media, it doesn't go viral, and we don't get a big, angry, stupid, easily distracted and vengeful mob actively looking to poke our corpse when it happens.

Internet mob justice is fucking terrifying. It doesn't have an ethos. It just likes to watch people burn.

 

[The Lunatic]

I'm pretty sure if she was a "White Cis-man" she'd probably have been asked to leave the college entirely if such a person dared to tweet something like "KillallArabs", regardless of the context of such a "Hashtag"!

 

[shrekfan246]

Well, sure. I'm not denying that. I just --

That said, she's also going to be on the receiving end of a social media lynching by the usual pack of idiots, which is lamentable, even if she counts amongst their number.

-- don't think it's worth this. It should be a decision reached by the university as a natural result of her actions, not something the internet tries to pressure them to do (regardless of the relative impact or lack thereof said internet pressure will likely have).

An orderly petition is actually fine. I'm not going to sign it because I don't sign petitions unless I know absolutely every last thing there is to know on the subject (fool me once...) but it's a perfectly reasonable way to demonstrate discontent. It's a pretty egregious misstep, given the position she's paid to fill. This isn't a case where she made an off-color joke that got removed from context, she's being deliberately antagonistic. Usually employment is pretty sacrosanct but in this circumstance, I'd say this qualifies as a genuine firing offense.

My concern isn't petitions, it's the court of public opinion, which will launch the usual tirade of rape/death threats, doxxing, endless verbal abuse and harassment, etc. Everyone tends to chirp along with "harassment is bad" but I don't think people realize how life-destroying these highly public pile-ons are. We, as people, say or do ignorant and stupid shit all the time. Some of the crap I've heard people say ON THIS FORUM is pretty amazing. But we're not doing it on social media, it doesn't go viral, and we don't get a big, angry, stupid, easily distracted and vengeful mob actively looking to poke our corpse when it happens.

Internet mob justice is fucking terrifying. It doesn't have an ethos. It just likes to watch people burn.

I'd say we're in full agreement, then. I'm perhaps annoyed by the creation of yet another internet petition, thus I focused on that in particular, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it in itself.

(EDIT: For the sake of consistency between my posts, I wouldn't consider "an orderly petition" to necessarily be the same thing as "pressure".)