Plot holes in "Avatar"

[Daedalus1942]

So I went to the theater yesterday and saw Avatar in 3d. It was pretty good. Today, I was reflecting on the movie a little when I realized there was something odd. I shall recount the scenes in which this plot hole occurs.

WARNING, SPOILERS

Hole #1 (my friend actually pointed this one out): In the beginning scene where Jake first takes control of the avatar, he comes across numerous other avatars (the ones playing basketball, numerous others you see scattered about). These ones are never seen in the movie again. Who's avatars are they and what purpose do they serve?

Hole #2: During the final battle, we see that the avatar of Norm (the other scientist guy) is killed. Norm emerges from his pod, perfectly fine but visibly shaken. Later, once the main bad guy dies, Jake's real body ends up on the ground outside his pod, struggling for air. Na'vi princess lady comes in and everythings fine.

END SPOILERS

#1: Ok, so it's not really a plot hole, but it's still interesting to point out. There seems to be no purpose for them to be there.

#2: So, where did Norm go? Did he just wander off into the jungle? Surely he would have gone to help his friend Jake, who was struggling for breath on the floor of the mobile outpost. We see him again later at the end, but where did he go?

Did anyone else catch these? Or am I just wrong and missed something that would explain this?

Norm wasn't shaken, he was struggling to breathe. While it didn't kill him, he was hurt by it, and needed a moment to regain his energy. Also, he went off to help the Na'vi fight.
In all honesty, I was trying to find plotholes, and apart from it being a very cliche film (i predicted the entire plot sucessfully from the start), it was very well done so the fact it has all been done before didn't bother me in the slightest. Great film. I recommend it to anyone.

 

[Danny Ocean]

From reading a lot of responses in this thread, I can only come to the conclusion that some people go to see movies, but don't actually comprehend half the things that happen. Am I the only one who pays attention to every line of dialogue?

Seems like it.

Norm wasn't shaken, he was struggling to breathe. While it didn't kill him, he was hurt by it, and needed a moment to regain his energy. Also, he went off to help the Na'vi fight.
In all honesty, I was trying to find plotholes, and apart from it being a very cliche film (i predicted the entire plot sucessfully from the start), it was very well done so the fact it has all been done before didn't bother me in the slightest. Great film. I recommend it to anyone.

His brain thought he was dead, then he was suddenly alive. He went into shock[footnote] as I imagine one would after putting their brain through the same basic experience as being shocked by a pair defibrillators[/footnote] and hyperventilated. Hyperventilation can cause chest pains and the rapid rise in blood pressure can make your heart hurt. He wasn't suffocating, he was breathing too much.

Then he calmed down, grabbed a mask, and ran off to fight.

It did kinda annoy me how one-sided Humans-Are-Bastards it was.

One of the military pilots changed sides, all of the scientists did, too. As did Jake, and a few other humans after the Navi won.

If you're looking for the message in this film, it's basically this:

Spoiler: Video

 

[TotallyFake]

And again, that's what I dislike about the film. It just doesn't make sense. In reality nobody would waste this much money trying to acquire a resource unless it was incredibly valuable. And the only way such a resource could be so valuable was if it was necessary to maintain the current status of human society.

It sells for 20 mil a kilo. At the end they explain that the humans are going back to their dying planet. How much more do they need to spell it out?

That, and I fail to see how it makes sense. It's fairly clear that Unobtanium is incredibly important. How do I know this? It sells for 20 mil a kilo and is worth building a giant base on an alien world whilst funding cutting edge biological research. You don't need someone to explicitly say "We are here to make room temperature superconductors", it's fairly heavily implied.

 

[DazZ.]

Well I liked it.

I do have a plothole I noticed that I don't think has been mentioned though, when they "hijack" the plane and run from the mercs to help the na'vis, and go very close to the electromagnetic thing that disrupts equipment so they can't be tracked. How does the Avatar pod work down there and if they are untraceable, how come they can be contacted and have a video call with the guy back at the HQ.

 

[Requi3m]

What I don't understand is the whole deal with the big flying things. Supposedly, you "connect for life" with a certain one, but halfway through Jake ditches his for the big orange one.

That's simple. The flying creature, once connected with a Na'vi, doesn't connect with another Na'vi for the rest of it's life. But the Na'vi can connect with other creatures just fine, like the 'horses' or the big orange one, and ride the flyers whenever they so wish.

 

[SpaceSpork]

Norm took a gun and went off to go help fight, didn't you notice that when he left? As for the other avatar drivers, presumably they were off doing the sort of research that Jake was assisting with when he got lost and ended up befriending the tribe.

OOH! MONSTERHeart, Gildan just pointed out plot holes in you calling them plot holes! Someone better call 9-1-1, 'cause you just got BURNED!

 

[Danny Ocean]

Well I liked it.

I do have a plothole I noticed that I don't think has been mentioned though, when they "hijack" the plane and run from the mercs to help the na'vis, and go very close to the electromagnetic thing that disrupts equipment so they can't be tracked. How does the Avatar pod work down there and if they are untraceable, how come they can be contacted and have a video call with the guy back at the HQ.

This is more like it.

Perhaps it's a wired line? Or they can amplify it enough to get it through the disruption? I mean the big-ass super gunship's missiles still tracked, and its sensors still worked, while the little gunships' trackers don't. Perhaps the larger craft, and buildings have enough power to get the signal through?

Also, glad to see you liked it! It's like Crysis, no? =P

 

[Canid117]

What about the fact that the main antagonist has no real reason for being the way he is or that this story is Dances With Wolves, with plot holes, white guilt and even seemingly, anti-human sentiment.

Okay, none of those are plot holes. And you can't use "it has plot holes" as one of your plot holes.
I also have no idea what you mean by "no reason for being the way he is". Do you mean why he's in a wheelchair? Or why he turns against the greedy, aggressive, authoritarian humans in favour of the harmonious, romantic, wonderful Na'Vi and a super strong super fast body that he could only dream of as a human?

And, more importantly: Have you seen Dances with Wolves? Because I'd not even heard of it until all the "Dances with Smurfs" bullshit, and now it's suddenly become extremely prevalent. Have I somehow completely missed a phenomonally well known classic or is everyone just jumping on the bandwagon?

Antagonist means the bad guy. In this case Colonel Quarditch or however you spell his name. Jake Sully was the protagonist. And for the second "plot hole" she came in and put his mask on which allowed him to breathe though how he managed to turn the mask on after he had lost consciousness is a puzzle I have yet to solve. If you notice in the movie the princess puts on the mask after he has lost consciousness and nothing happens for a few seconds. Then he comes back to life and turns the mask on and starts to breathe again.That is a plot hole that continues to vex me. And was any one else annoyed by the main characters accent leaking through during the movie? Couldn't he have done a little more accent training or better yet just let it out and change the story so he was a royal marine instead of a US marine? If James Cameron thinks the American film demographic can relate to giant blue kitty people then why not foreigners?

Sorry, misread my pro- and an-.
As to the mask thing, that's kinda nitpicky. It's an emergency oxygen mask on a planet which will knock you out in 20 seconds, is it that hard to believe it turns on automatically when you pull it out? And then he tweaks it and it kinda sucks onto his head to fit properly.

It did kinda annoy me how one-sided Humans-Are-Bastards it was. It would've been nice if they could've found peace rather than being kicked out, especially as the film ALMOST tries to draw parallels. They beat us up in the air, we kick their asses on the ground. Both cultures have some form of brain transfer, ours is mechanical, there's is biological. Even our planes look vaguely hexapod (two rotors on each side, 2 small at the back with legs underneath). Both armies plug in to heavy machines, we have mechs, they have the horses. Heck, the Soul Tree is essentially the internet.

As it is, it's just a damn fine action film. But it could've been more.

I still wanna know how he regained consciousness seconds after he put the mask on. I thought it took a few minutes at least. Though if Humanity as a whole had stepped in and helped the Navi it would have felt more like James Cameron was saying "we have a chance to become better" as apposed to "We are all such dicks." Maybe we will get to see future marines versus future mega corporations if Cameron decides there needs to be an AVATAR II. Think of it, the evil corporation decides to re invade. The Navi are getting their asses kicked then BOOM climax as marines and army rangers (or a varied force of UN troops) drop down in Heinlein style power armor with rocket packs on their backs and triple mini guns strapped to their arms. It would make an awesome action sequence. Or there could be a boycott of the companies products back on earth but that wouldn't be as climactic.

 

[Booze Zombie]

There are videos of Enron execs laughing their asses off while they create artificial blackouts and charge unimaginable prices for power from their out of state plants to Californian customers. People in corporate America can be soulless dicks.


(I hate the word "corporate" which is the second most annoying hippy buzzword after "military industrial complex")

I suppose, but my point was that this is a film built on sterotypes.

The "corporate" stereotype (fuck the world, fuck you too and may I say, this brandy is great), the military stereotype (HOOORAAAH), the scientist stereotype (I know a lot but am innocent), etc.

It just seems like a saturday morning cartoon.

 

[Heathrow]

Not really a plot hole but.

Spoiler

I have to wonder why the humans didn't unplug Jake and Dr. Augustine during the fight over the Home-tree immediately after it became clear they weren't helping. Obviously Cameron wanted the characters to be there from a story perspective but it doesn't really make sense for Colonel Badass to not ring up the base have them removed from the avatar pods.

 

[Kill100577]

What I don't understand is the whole deal with the big flying things. Supposedly, you "connect for life" with a certain one, but halfway through Jake ditches his for the big orange one.

No its the dragon things that connect to only one Na'vi, theoretically one Na'vi could have as many dragon things as he/she wants

 

[1gremlyn1]

1 and 2 aren't really holes.
#1 the guy could have just gone for a mask, but yes I see your point.
#2 the blue lady puts a mask on him so of course he's fine.

MY problem with the movie was what happens to the avatars when they're uninhabited? They would need to be alive to continue breathing and such without a consciousness in them, but in order to keep the heart beating and such there would have to be brainwaves which means that it would have to be alive and have some form of consciousness, and if not, then it would stop breathing and essentially be dead and start to rot. So since there must be life in it, then you're essentially either sharing, mind-controlling, or elbowing out another consciousness. It's complicated but makes sense if you think about it.

At the start you see some in the tanks they grew in, and its moving slowly, kind of like a baby. i think the idea is that because the avatar has partly the same DNA as the driver, the conciousness of the driver can flip between the avatar and the driver's human body, so when the conciousness is controlling the human body, the avatar is asleep (several times it is shown that when the avatar sleeps, Sully wakes up back in the pod), and when the avatar is being controlled, the human body is asleep, but when the human bady is in the pod, it seems to be with REM sleep. i think one thing the film tried to show was that at first, using the avatar was like a dream for Sully, (the leader of the avatar project tell shim to make the log while it is fresh in his mind), but as time progressed, it was like the time he spent as a human was a dream. this connection is what they were ending with the ritual at the tree of souls, fully transferring the conciousness into the avatar, leaving the human body dead, but more in the way that an amputated limb is dead - the main conciousness is intact and unharmed

 

[DazZ.]

Well I liked it.

I do have a plothole I noticed that I don't think has been mentioned though, when they "hijack" the plane and run from the mercs to help the na'vis, and go very close to the electromagnetic thing that disrupts equipment so they can't be tracked. How does the Avatar pod work down there and if they are untraceable, how come they can be contacted and have a video call with the guy back at the HQ.

This is more like it.

Perhaps it's a wired line? Or they can amplify it enough to get it through the disruption? I mean the big-ass super gunship's missiles still tracked, and its sensors still worked, while the little gunships' trackers don't. Perhaps the larger craft, and buildings have enough power to get the signal through?

Also, glad to see you liked it! It's like Crysis, no? =P

Whenever there was grass/trees (which was a lot) all I could think of was the Cryengine. It does seem to appeal to gamers more as well, the gamers in my group loved it and the ones that don't play hated it with a passion.

Didn't get to see it in 3D though because we were late.

 

[Raptorace18]

As far as plot holes go Avatar was pretty good. There were a few holes in the story but they weren't the kind that you can lose your train of thought in, alla shooter, but they were big enough to give you pause to think about it until the helicopter scene started which really should have been accompanied by flight of the bumblebees. For example it is never explained why unobtainium is so valuable in the first place so I guess you have to fill that blank in for yourself.

 

[Canid117]

Not really a plot hole but.

Spoiler

I have to wonder why the humans didn't unplug Jake and Dr. Augustine during the fight over the Home-tree immediately after it became clear they weren't helping. Obviously Cameron wanted the characters to be there from a story perspective but it doesn't really make sense for Colonel Badass to not ring up the base have them removed from the avatar pods.

They did but the protagonists broke out and stole some of the Avatar controller units. Did you go to the bathroom when this happened? (Wouldn't be surprising with the runtime)

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I still wanna know how he regained consciousness seconds after he put the mask on. I thought it took a few minutes at least.

Jake fainted. A faint is when not enough oxygen is being transported to the brain. Recovering from a faint doesn't take more than 7 seconds. I'm guessing since the Na'vi administrated oxygen quite fast to Jake he didn't even require 7 seconds.

Though if Humanity as a whole had stepped in and helped the Navi it would have felt more like James Cameron was saying "we have a chance to become better" as apposed to "We are all such dicks."

The problem was that the unobtanium deposit was right under the home of a Na'vi tribe. In order to get to it, they would have to destroy the big tree which housed all those Na'vi. Do you really think the Na'vi would ever agree to get their home demolished?

Maybe we will get to see future marines versus future mega corporations if Cameron decides there needs to be an AVATAR II.

Cameron already said that if Avatar was successful a sequel would be underway. Worldwide, the film grossed an estimated $232,180,000 in its opening weekend with a budget of $237 million so it's pretty obvious an Avatar 2 is will be underway (Giving that this is barely the opening weekend and the movie's already almost surpassed its budget).

Think of it, the evil corporation decides to re invade. The Navi are getting their asses kicked then BOOM climax as marines and army rangers (or a varied force of UN troops) drop down in Heinlein style power armor with rocket packs on their backs and triple mini guns strapped to their arms.

I think the sequel will be a very dark movie. Think about it, the corporation will probably attempt to re-invade Pandora and the Na'vi really are in no shape to challenge that invasion force. Not only that, but most marines will deem the Na'vi beasts. I mean, the people who rebelled against the corporation only did so because they actually spent time with the tribe and learned about their ways, something which that invasion force never did.

Or there could be a boycott of the companies products back on earth but that wouldn't be as climactic.

That really isn't a possibility. Why would anyone boycott a company which supplies them with a rare element that is extremely useful? This again hints that the sequel will have a very "dark" tone.

 

[blackadder8]

What about the fact that the main antagonist has no real reason for being the way he is or that this story is Dances With Wolves, with plot holes, white guilt and even seemingly, anti-human sentiment.

Okay, none of those are plot holes. And you can't use "it has plot holes" as one of your plot holes.
I also have no idea what you mean by "no reason for being the way he is". Do you mean why he's in a wheelchair? Or why he turns against the greedy, aggressive, authoritarian humans in favour of the harmonious, romantic, wonderful Na'Vi and a super strong super fast body that he could only dream of as a human?

I think hes asking why the grey haired colonel guy is so sadistic

The best way the movie could have ended in my opinion was the main guys avatar getting paralized that would have been hilarious

 

[IronicBeet]

I think some people are sort of misinterpreting what I thought the plot hole was. The rephrase it, I was essentially asking where was Norm when Jake was suffocating? Did the movie ever show him leave?

I think the questions were answered (he went off into the jungle again, apparently), but I don't remember that happening so I can't be sure.

You see a masked human run briefly and fight on the Na'Vi side. It's very VERY quick, but I think it's him. Norm was awesome, and got a great "death", I wish they'd done a bit more with him.

a minor concern for Norm might have been that he could have been killed by the Na'Vi once he was out of his avatar.... I cant remember if they ever saw his human self before the fight but even if they did he's just another human with a face obscuring mask and isn't daubed in blue warpaint, also the majority of the ground force was made up of the horse riding tribe who have never met Norm... just a small worry for his safety

If you look at the few Avatars that remained on the planet, Norm was one of them. It was wearing his clothes, and had his face. Maybe they managed to save his Avatar somehow, after all, he only got shot in the shoulder.

 

[SeanTheSheep]

-snip-
Now a question of my own that's not quite a plot hole either. Why do the mech things need knives?

Mainly as a plot device, but logically it would be a good idea to have a bayonet because if the enemy creature (Na'vi or otherwise) gets very close, or the fight goes on until they run out of ammo, a knife on the end of your gun is more fun and less risky than punching them.

Fridge logic of my own: Why do all of the land creatures (I'm not sure about the flying creatures) have six limbs, and most have a tail, while the Na'vi only have four?

 

[Skarvig]

It sells for 20 mil a kilo. At the end they explain that the humans are going back to their dying planet. How much more do they need to spell it out?

They go back to their dying planet cause they lost their way to live with the planet.

That, and I fail to see how it makes sense. It's fairly clear that Unobtanium is incredibly important. How do I know this? It sells for 20 mil a kilo and is worth building a giant base on an alien world whilst funding cutting edge biological research. You don't need someone to explicitly say "We are here to make room temperature superconductors", it's fairly heavily implied.

Well you don't need diamonds, gold or platinum to live, but they are a lot more expensive than water.
Unobtanium seems to be a metal that isn't avaible on earth. They are the only one to sell this and therefor rule the price. It's called a monopoly.

And of course greed is the major driving force. Guess why America didn't had universal healthcare till now. It's because America wanted it's people to be healthy. No, wait it's the opposite, FUCKING MONEY!