Police officer kills two police dogs.

[Travdelosmuertos]

Now this is silly. There's no need for such grave punishments as locking that man himself up in a hot car. No reason for prison, and no reason for being permanently fired.

Let him pay a some pounds to cover the dogs, suspend him for a month or two and say "Bad!". That's punishment enough.
Heck it would still be more than a dozen times worse than the punishment parents who leave their baby in a hot car get.

The man shouldn't have left him there, I agree. But most likely he just forgot about time after he had to do something outside the car.
And two dogs for one officer? That's just asking for trouble. You can't take two dogs with you all the time, can you?
Try inspecting someone's papers and taking notes when there's a leash in both hands.

Again, the police officer is well aware of the law. He should be held accountable to that law as much as anyone else, if not more. If negligence of animals leading to suffering/death is a crime in England, then that cop needs to be charged. It's not a question of forgiveness. They don't forgive people for speeding, stealing or possession of controlled substance. They charge those people. This should be no exception.

 

[Kevvers]

I think the maximum penalty of the Animal Welfare act is there to apply to the animal torturers and those gangster who set up dog fights and such. There are still some people who think it is 'okay' to treat animals as playthings to torture and neglect at their leisure. In this case I would say the negligence came about due to gross incompetence rather than intent so a fine and dismissal should suffice.

 

[AncientYoungSon]

What were the circumstances surrounding it?

Did he go into the precinct and just forget about them? Or did he chase a fleeing suspect on foot, apprehend him, call for backup, wait until backup arrived, and eventually went back to find his dogs dead?

 

[MortisLegio]

pay fine
demoted
banned from K-9 unit

 

[Olfinbedwere]

............

 

[asinann]

Strangely while this weeks escapist issue is on pets I found This news story [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8160753.stm]

He left two police dogs in his car on a hot day and both died. He is currently suspended and is being charged with causing unnecessary suffering to the animals. He faces up to 6 months in prison and £20,000 fine ($32,992 US dollars according to Googles exchange rate).

This is a real shame but does he deserve to lose his job? Should he go to prison? (It cant be fun being a cop in prison). How about if he was just demoted?

Personally I'd fire him and ban him from keeping animals.

What are your thoughts?

If he were in the US, he would have been charged with at least 2 counts of murder and probably 5-10 counts of assaulting a police officer (because police dogs are treated as human officers and we use a shotgun approach to prosecuting [1 crime, 15 charges and hope you can get one to stick])

Christ! whats wrong with you people? They were dogs! They weren't even pet dogs. They werent near and dear to anyone. They were tools, used to find drugs and bombs, maybe even attack people, and yet you all say he is the worst kind of man, even going so far as to say he should die. I'll never understand why anti-speceism is so popular. Hes no murderer. Did anyone here consider maybe he did it on accident? Maybe he forgot to open the windows a bit. Maybe he went to get a cup of coffee, got to chatting, and lost track of time. There are a whole host of possibilities, but no-one here considers them.
I think that a suspension is probably right, after all he has cost the police a few hundered dollars and man hours in killing the dogs. He most certainly does not deserve a prison sentence, but a small fine may be in order.

Try a few THOUSAND dollars, and those dogs are treated like family by the police they work with.
And if he's stupid enough to forget to roll down the windows (which should have already been down, those cars have barred windows so the dogs can't get out), maybe he's too stupid to remember things like miranda rights, not beating people unnecessarily, or how to properly investigate crimes.

He shouldn't be treated any better or worse under the law than any other person that does the same thing though, don't kill him, but certainly punish him.

And I wouldn't kill you, just because you'd taste good with honey mustard.

I would, but honey mustard is good.

 

[Amnestic]

A lot of internet tough guys here.

The guy made a mistake, no doubt about that. Toss him a fine, maybe a good deal of community service and a demotion, but prison and losing his job (which will effectively keep him out of the Police Force for the rest of his life if what my friend, also a Police Officer, said is true)? That's really harsh.

They're dogs guys. They're not human.

Agreed, despite the no firearm thing in England. Every summer they do PSAs about "dont leave your so and so unattended in a hot car", a police officer should be very well aware of these things. Its common sense.

"To err is human, to forgive divine."
"Let he who is without Sin cast the first stone."
"Some other line about forgiveness."

When you guys come to me and tell me you've never forgotten anything important, I'll consider thinking otherwise but what I see right now are a bunch of flared tempers over someone making a mistake which cost precisely zero humans their lives or wellbeing. Destroying possibly his entire livelihood is extreme to say the least.

And I'd bet £10 of the Queen's finest pound sterling these are the same guys telling us we're too nanny state and too harsh on people as well. Hypocrisy abound.

Listen. The man is a police officer. His job is to do what? Uphold the LAW. When the police break the law, they are to be held as accountable as the law can hold them. You don't give them a slap on the wrist. They know the goddamn law, or so they should. It's their fucking job. I have no sympathy for this guy. You broke the law, and now you must pay for it. I've forgotten plenty of things in my day but never once have I been so stupid or negligent to leave two living beings to be cooked in a car on a hot day. Fuck this guy, he deserves what he gets. Your argument that it doesn't matter because it was just animals is flawed. It doesn't matter whether or not it was a dog or not. It's fucking illegal.

So, you do something illegal and suddenly you deserve being locked in a car on a scorching hot day?

Last time I checked, the Death Penalty, and torture are illegal in the UK. Yet the people here are all for locking him in a car and giving him "an eye for an eye" so to speak. Way to leave the whole world blind.

There are different levels of crime, though I'm sure you're aware of that. People are treating him like here committed premeditated serial murderer where really he's just a victim of gross negligence at most.

Shoplifting's illegal too, does that mean we should go into a shoplifters house and steal one of his possessions? Slippery slope fallacy here.

 

[AmrasCalmacil]

This thread has definately tought me something.

All of these people criticising him must obviously be exceedingly intellegent moon gods who have never made a mistake in their lives!

As a mere mortal I shall bow down to those who shall obviously become our new leaders.

 

[asinann]

A lot of internet tough guys here.

The guy made a mistake, no doubt about that. Toss him a fine, maybe a good deal of community service and a demotion, but prison and losing his job (which will effectively keep him out of the Police Force for the rest of his life if what my friend, also a Police Officer, said is true)? That's really harsh.

They're dogs guys. They're not human.

Agreed, despite the no firearm thing in England. Every summer they do PSAs about "dont leave your so and so unattended in a hot car", a police officer should be very well aware of these things. Its common sense.

"To err is human, to forgive divine."
"Let he who is without Sin cast the first stone."
"Some other line about forgiveness."

When you guys come to me and tell me you've never forgotten anything important, I'll consider thinking otherwise but what I see right now are a bunch of flared tempers over someone making a mistake which cost precisely zero humans their lives or wellbeing. Destroying possibly his entire livelihood is extreme to say the least.

And I'd bet £10 of the Queen's finest pound sterling these are the same guys telling us we're too nanny state and too harsh on people as well. Hypocrisy abound.

Listen. The man is a police officer. His job is to do what? Uphold the LAW. When the police break the law, they are to be held as accountable as the law can hold them. You don't give them a slap on the wrist. They know the goddamn law, or so they should. It's their fucking job. I have no sympathy for this guy. You broke the law, and now you must pay for it. I've forgotten plenty of things in my day but never once have I been so stupid or negligent to leave two living beings to be cooked in a car on a hot day. Fuck this guy, he deserves what he gets. Your argument that it doesn't matter because it was just animals is flawed. It doesn't matter whether or not it was a dog or not. It's fucking illegal.

So, you do something illegal and suddenly you deserve being locked in a car on a scorching hot day?

Last time I checked, the Death Penalty, and torture are illegal in the UK. Yet the people here are all for locking him in a car and giving him "an eye for an eye" so to speak. Way to leave the whole world blind.

There are different levels of crime, though I'm sure you're aware of that. People are treating him like here committed premeditated serial murderer where really he's just a victim of gross negligence at most.

Shoplifting's illegal too, does that mean we should go into a shoplifters house and steal one of his possessions? Slippery slope fallacy here.

He's not a victim, stop making this moron sound like he had something done to him. He is the perpetrator and the dogs were his victims.

 

[PhantomCritic]

A better punishment would be to leave him in the car on a hot day for the same amount of time as the dogs did...or a demotion could work as well.

 

[Travdelosmuertos]

Wall of text

Did you not read my post? Here, let me recap for you:

When the police break the law, they are to be held as accountable as the law can hold them.

That is what I said. I did not advocate sticking the man in a car and leaving him to die. I said that a police officer is still accountable to the law and its consequences. Read before you post. Take your finger off the trigger and think for a second.

 

[DoomyMcDoom]

He deserves to be fired... Out of a cannon...

into the sun...

 

[lacktheknack]

What if he'd gotten out to go to the bathroom, and was going to get back in a couple of minutes (extremely likely), but got called away by an emergency and he just didn't think, like 99% of the world's population doesn't?

Context matters, guys.

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

A lot of internet tough guys here.

The guy made a mistake, no doubt about that. Toss him a fine, maybe a good deal of community service and a demotion, but prison and losing his job (which will effectively keep him out of the Police Force for the rest of his life if what my friend, also a Police Officer, said is true)? That's really harsh.

They're dogs guys. They're not human.

Agreed, despite the no firearm thing in England. Every summer they do PSAs about "dont leave your so and so unattended in a hot car", a police officer should be very well aware of these things. Its common sense.

"To err is human, to forgive divine."
"Let he who is without Sin cast the first stone."
"Some other line about forgiveness."

When you guys come to me and tell me you've never forgotten anything important, I'll consider thinking otherwise but what I see right now are a bunch of flared tempers over someone making a mistake which cost precisely zero humans their lives or wellbeing. Destroying possibly his entire livelihood is extreme to say the least.

And I'd bet £10 of the Queen's finest pound sterling these are the same guys telling us we're too nanny state and too harsh on people as well. Hypocrisy abound.

I was going to say something along these lines, but said it better than my bumbling ass was about to.

 

[Travdelosmuertos]

This thread has definately tought me something.

All of these people criticising him must obviously be exceedingly intellegent moon gods who have never made a mistake in their lives!

As a mere mortal I shall bow down to those who shall obviously become our new leaders.

This has absolutely nothing to do with forgetfulness and everything to do with the *gasp* LAW. You know, that code of rules that the policeman swore to uphold? Yeah, those laws. Contrary to what you want to think, negligence is a criminal charge.

 

[esperandote]

poor dogs, what a twat.

 

[findler]

Leave it to the courts. They will determine if he is to be punished and how severely. There could be many more circumstances we don't yet know about, all we know is that 2 police dogs, which really are just tools, have died due to heat exposure. Not nearly enough information to pass judgement let alone demonize this guy.

 

[Alorha]

A lot of internet tough guys here.

The guy made a mistake, no doubt about that. Toss him a fine, maybe a good deal of community service and a demotion, but prison and losing his job (which will effectively keep him out of the Police Force for the rest of his life if what my friend, also a Police Officer, said is true)? That's really harsh.

They're dogs guys. They're not human.

Agreed, despite the no firearm thing in England. Every summer they do PSAs about "dont leave your so and so unattended in a hot car", a police officer should be very well aware of these things. Its common sense.

"To err is human, to forgive divine."
"Let he who is without Sin cast the first stone."
"Some other line about forgiveness."

When you guys come to me and tell me you've never forgotten anything important, I'll consider thinking otherwise but what I see right now are a bunch of flared tempers over someone making a mistake which cost precisely zero humans their lives or wellbeing. Destroying possibly his entire livelihood is extreme to say the least.

And I'd bet £10 of the Queen's finest pound sterling these are the same guys telling us we're too nanny state and too harsh on people as well. Hypocrisy abound.

Listen. The man is a police officer. His job is to do what? Uphold the LAW. When the police break the law, they are to be held as accountable as the law can hold them. You don't give them a slap on the wrist. They know the goddamn law, or so they should. It's their fucking job. I have no sympathy for this guy. You broke the law, and now you must pay for it. I've forgotten plenty of things in my day but never once have I been so stupid or negligent to leave two living beings to be cooked in a car on a hot day. Fuck this guy, he deserves what he gets. Your argument that it doesn't matter because it was just animals is flawed. It doesn't matter whether or not it was a dog or not. It's fucking illegal.

So, you do something illegal and suddenly you deserve being locked in a car on a scorching hot day?

Last time I checked, the Death Penalty, and torture are illegal in the UK. Yet the people here are all for locking him in a car and giving him "an eye for an eye" so to speak. Way to leave the whole world blind.

There are different levels of crime, though I'm sure you're aware of that. People are treating him like here committed premeditated serial murderer where really he's just a victim of gross negligence at most.

Shoplifting's illegal too, does that mean we should go into a shoplifters house and steal one of his possessions? Slippery slope fallacy here.

Alright, I see part of the problem here. A number of people are responding to earlier hyperbole about letting the guy roast as if it were serious. I see two options with the "cook him in a car view." It's hyperbole, and should not be taken seriously, or it's idiocy and should not be taken seriously.

Should he die... no. That's obvious. I don't think anyone has seriously suggested it. IF anyone has, stop taking what they say seriously, as they are likely beyond reason.

The initial question was if the officer deserved to lose his job. He does. He lost valuable assets due to his negligence. There may (and likely was) sentimental value attached to these assets, so this was not like misplacing ammo or forgetting to lock one's car. Negligence resulting in harm of this level calls into question his capability of carrying out his duties. He gets sacked.

Yes we all make mistakes, but if we seriously screw up at work, we often see the pink slip coming. Even if dogs are not people, they have value. His negligence demonstrated disregard for that value and serious poor judgment.

There is also the question of legal penalties. He should face some. Commit a crime get punished. These penalties should not (and likely will not) include prison time. Negligence not resulting in the loss of human life should not lead to prison time, and I've seen no reason to assume he acted maliciously. Fine him something more than the cost of the dogs (to punish his negligence, in addition to the cost of his crime). No need to be reactionary or malicious. They may have been his dogs in more than a working sense. I doubt he's happy, but he committed a crime, showed a lack of judgment and therefore loses his job and pays a fine.

You say slippery slope, I say false dichotomy. This isn't about killing him, or pulling an eye for an eye for each crime as opposed to no punishment. There is a middle ground. Discuss it, as legitimate and interesting viewpoints can exist on each side there. This kill him or let him off debate is pointless trolling. Address arguments grounded in reality.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Poor pups, I feel bad for them but I think sending a police officer to JAIL for it is going a little far. I'm sure it wasn't malicious, just negligent. Losing his job and the intese fine from hell is enough in my opinion, though if he were able to serve his jail sentance as Community Service that would be acceptable.

 

[Jharry5]

The fact that the officer might lose his job over something I'm sure happens quite frequently to the ordinary public is a bit harsh. A fine, possibly a small suspension; but prison? To me, that sounds way too much. Imagine a cop getting put in prison and just how long he'd last there...