Poll: 12 year old girl wins case against dear old Dad for grounding...

[shotfun9]

what is this i dont even

 

[lacktheknack]

And people ask me why I'm a cynic...

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Part of the reason most of us think the father is in the right is that the daughter was posting 'inappropriate' pictures of herself online WHEN SHE'S 12!

No actually, that's *not* why most of you think the father is in the right. The argument you jumped into wasn't about the facts of this particular case, but rather how the parent/child relationship should be structures.

Actually, my point is that regardless of your opinion on parent-child relationships the girl disobeyed her father, the man who had legal custody of her at the time, and was punished for it. I think the relationship structure is important too, but this girl sued her dad because he didn't want to let her go on a trip due to her disobedience. Whatever the content of these pictures she was posting, the dad felt it was not appropriate for her to be doing so and had told her she could not use the web, therefore she is in the wrong entirely for not listening.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Part of the reason most of us think the father is in the right is that the daughter was posting 'inappropriate' pictures of herself online WHEN SHE'S 12!

pfff, define 'inappropriate' (in fact don't bother cuz we haven't seen the pictures so that wouldn't be much help). He could be a strict Muslim and be claiming that because she was not wearing a burqa they were inappropriate.

'Inappropriate' is an entirely subjective thing, but in this case I would say that the dad has a right to punish his daughter for doing whatever it was she was doing on the grounds that he was still considered her legal guardian. Regardless of whether she was living with him or her mom at the time of the trip, she had violated his rules and was being punished by him not consenting to the trip. It seems like he was well within his rights to do so.

 

[Hyper-space]

the first step to adulthood is to accept authority.

p.s. isn't the whole Canadian justice system drunk?

 

[DigitalSushi]

Fair enough, but I don't recall there being any right that says "You can do whatever you want, go wherever you want, and don't have to listen to your parents."

Neither do I.

However, there's a difference between being free to do "whatever you want" and being free to require your parents to justify their treatment of you as being in your best interests.

Part of the reason most of us think the father is in the right is that the daughter was posting 'inappropriate' pictures of herself online WHEN SHE'S 12!

No actually, that's *not* why most of you think the father is in the right. The argument you jumped into wasn't about the facts of this particular case, but rather how the parent/child relationship should be structures.

it doesn't matter, the girl in question is fucked for life, at a turbulent time in her life she now believes she can fight authority, and win.

I know--it would be *terrible* to instill a sense of empowerment in a young person where they feel their rights are taken seriously by their government.

The law doesn't matter anymore to a broken home, its the psychological impact to a 12 year old such a power trip has.

While its a mad story, I'd love to find out how she grows up, what will she be like in ten years time?. Has this affected her.

Maybe she'll become an advocate for children's rights.

Why is that a problem? Here, let me give you an analogy: The Business Judgment Rule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_judgment_rule

Think of the Parent as the Director, the Child as the Stockholder, and Growing Up as the Business. Why is that so bad a framework?

BECAUSE IT'S A HUMAN CHILD- not a house, not a business...the child is not a "share-holder", the child is the "recipient". You are teaching said recipient how to survive in grown up world. Comparing raising a child to raising a business, that's how No Child Left Behind and standardized tests were adopted.

In other words you have no real response to what I said ;-D

Cheese Pavlion, you fucking rock dude, you have conquered my over the top knee jerk reaction with charm and intellect.

Once again, you are right, which is unprecedented, someone on the internet is right about something.

I'd take my hat off to you, but I don't wear a hat, so instead i'll take the top of my head off for you to see the impact you've had on my brain, its delicious and moist is it not?.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Part of the reason most of us think the father is in the right is that the daughter was posting 'inappropriate' pictures of herself online WHEN SHE'S 12!

No actually, that's *not* why most of you think the father is in the right. The argument you jumped into wasn't about the facts of this particular case, but rather how the parent/child relationship should be structures.

Actually, my point is that regardless of your opinion on parent-child relationships the girl disobeyed her father, the man who had legal custody of her at the time, and was punished for it. I think the relationship structure is important too, but this girl sued her dad because he didn't want to let her go on a trip due to her disobedience. Whatever the content of these pictures she was posting, the dad felt it was not appropriate for her to be doing so and had told her she could not use the web, therefore she is in the wrong entirely for not listening.

Then your point isn't relevant to what I was talking about. I agree with your point to an extent about how even if the original judgment of the father was wrong, she herself then did something wrong by disobeying him.

Of course, the question then becomes whether he had the right to prohibit her from using the internet in the first place. Maybe her mom permitted her to use the internet, in which case she was caught in the middle of a parental disagreement which changes things.

I would say he has every right to prohibit her internet use while at his home. If she violated this ruling, then the guilt is entirely on her shoulders, but if she was at mommy's place doing what she'd gotten in trouble for and daddy still tried to quash it, it's a little out of his jurisdiction at that point. It's important to remember that the parents are divorced and have separate places, so she was going back and forth between them during this. Regardless, I still think that he has some right to object to her internet use (even when it's not at his home) because she was doing something he thought of as inappropriate and she's his daughter. What exactly said inappropriateness entailed, I have no idea. If the mom had no objections to what her daughter was doing then I'd have a little more doubt about the dad's stand on things, but since none of the articles I've seen give me that info, I have to make do with what we've got.

 

[Zer_]

At least they're not speaking. I know I'd never speak to my child if it pulled this kind of shit.

Then you'd be a bad parent. As a parent, you don't get to cut off emotional support just because your kid defied you in such a minor way as to win a court case against you. If your kid becomes emotionally abusive in the extreme? Yeah. If your kid sues you, if you're not mature enough to deal with that, well, you shouldn't be having kids in the first place.

Of course, my rules only apply to other people - this is exactly the kind of shit I would pull.
(Though not before age 13. I knew I wasn't a person yet.)

That's the thing--to me, a lot of the people who complain about this don't actually believe in some sort of fair, just parent/child relationship. They just want power, and now that they are old enough to be parents, they are going to side with parents.

And you most certainly were a 'person' as of age 13. That's ridiculous to say that children aren't people: children are just as human as any adult, it's just that they require different treatment because of their different circumstances.

Uh, I don't actually think the punishment was harsh at all, this whole thing isn't about power. The girl sued her father for not letting her go on a trip. She won. The father appeals with the argument "How am I supposed to properly raise a child if I cannot discipline him or her?".

The child did something wrong on the internet. She posted inappropriate images (in this case let's assume bra and panties which isn't nude). The father bans her from any chat sites. He was even allowing her to use the computer otherwise, which is pretty lenient if you ask me. She directly disobeys her punishment. She essentially broke her parole so to speak. I'd fully expect a harsher punishment after that.

This isn't even a case of abused child at all, it's just mind boggling. Ask yourself what was going in in that kid's head when she first approached the family lawyer? I'd bet 50 bucks it was something along the lines of "Daddy can't ground me for this! Daddy is stupid and won't let me go on the trip." The girl knew she was being punished for doing something wrong. It's not like the father was keeping the kid in a cage as punishment.

I totally sided with the father on this one. Being in Montreal I had read about this on the newspaper, and to be honest it's just stupid. It's a daughter/father affair that was brought into court for crap sakes. Not only is this case stupid to begin with, but the fact that the child won the case opens a whole new can of worms that I don't even want to deal with. This is the kind of thing that brings my desire to have a child in question. Ugh.

 

[Sindaine]

*Snerk* If somehow I ever wind up with kids and they have the temerity to try ssomething like that, I'm going to say, 'Oh yeah, that's why what I wanted to talk to you about. Pack your bags; I'm putting you up for adoption."

 

[jdog345]

from what I've read, the punishment was a little harsh, but that is no business of the court, and the girl's defense was extremely flimsy. society's amazing, isn't it?

 

[Swordsponge]

time for a little red neck view point on the matter. this is what wrong with todays world. men should never hit a girl that does not mean your girlfriend or wife cant put a belt to her ass. how maney kids turn out all fuck up becouse the lack of parents keeping there kids in line? the court sytem is producing little spoiled monster some poor sob is going to have to live with this little ***** when she grows up. poor bastrd i already feel for him.

 

[Sindaine]

time for a little red neck view point on the matter. this is what wrong with todays world. men should never hit a girl that does not mean your girlfriend or wife cant put a belt to her ass. how maney kids turn out all fuck up becouse the lack of parents keeping there kids in line? the court sytem is producing little spoiled monster some poor sob is going to have to live with this little ***** when she grows up. poor bastrd i already feel for him.

Yeah, my aunt came up with the idea to, instead of hitting, choke instead. Only until they stop flailing/snotting all over the place/being offensive/whatever they were doing that you dislike. Done right, she says, you should only need to do it once.