Poll: A Discussion On Melee In FPS
- Thread starter MONSTERheart
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Halo Reach's, because you wouldn't get a one-hit melee kill from the front unless you were very skilled while most people could do it from behind. Plus it looks cool.
It really depends on how it's used. I see that Halo and counterstrike have the two most preferred ideas, and I would agree, but say the it really depends upon its execution.
Halo's style is well executed because the chief is supposedly as strong as an ox, and when he hits you, he HURTS you, but he may not kill you. If he hits you from behind, you might as well be dead.
CounterStike works because you equip the knife, but you're not going to kill somebody very fast with it because lets be honest, it takes either a really good cut, or a lot of work to kill somebody with a knife. It's not easy unless the knifee is allowing the knifer to get away with it. Also, look at modern body armor, they're quite knife resistant. The only problem I have with the CounterStrike system is that there are no rifle butting or pistol whipping, which would be weaker than the knife.
I'm not a fan of the insta-kill unless it has specific reason behind it, so I'm rather against modern warfare's system. And No-Melee wold have to be very context oriented, like a situation where you can't reach out and hit somebody.
Halo's style is well executed because the chief is supposedly as strong as an ox, and when he hits you, he HURTS you, but he may not kill you. If he hits you from behind, you might as well be dead.
CounterStike works because you equip the knife, but you're not going to kill somebody very fast with it because lets be honest, it takes either a really good cut, or a lot of work to kill somebody with a knife. It's not easy unless the knifee is allowing the knifer to get away with it. Also, look at modern body armor, they're quite knife resistant. The only problem I have with the CounterStrike system is that there are no rifle butting or pistol whipping, which would be weaker than the knife.
I'm not a fan of the insta-kill unless it has specific reason behind it, so I'm rather against modern warfare's system. And No-Melee wold have to be very context oriented, like a situation where you can't reach out and hit somebody.
Battlefield and CS knifing is definitely my favourite because knife fights are so much more interesting when you actually have to aim the damned thing.
It also made those knife kills you did get on other people that much more satisfying especially when they were oblivious to your presence.
It also made those knife kills you did get on other people that much more satisfying especially when they were oblivious to your presence.
www.pvkii.comviranimus said:
I really like halo's system, but it has its problems. I like that it's instakill from behind and that it can be used as a finisher if you run out of ammo. Also, Reach has a nice new humiliation option that's always fun to use. That said, the most fun I've had in MW2 is just running around knife:ing people. And since you die so easily from shots, the only really unbalanced part was commando.
COD4's melee insta-kill is ridiculous:
-No knife can so surely and instantly kill someone with a strike to anywhere from any angle
-It's mad how it can be drawn and slashed so quickly then put away when you have a 8-lbs rifle in one hand.
I think knife melee should be limited to if the rifle has a bayonet mounted or if you have a pistol with a knife DRAWN!
If the knife/bayonet is to kill in one hit it should be a two-stage attack, a bit like TF2 Sniper's "skewer taunt kill". That is, the first stab immobilises and Continuing To Hold the melee attack button it completes the fatal attack with a twist or gouge move.
The melee-button should be always available to use is a simple "impact+shove manoeuvre" (Like COD2, Left 4 Dead) this move either punches or swipes with a rifle but to impact.
The effect would be moderate health loss, blurred vision and stumble back with little control. So it functions similar to a stun grenade, it buys you more time to engage the enemy, or finish them off if you've shot them a few time but run out of ammo. The idea is the melee is always there, no matter what weapon, whether reload or not. Someone gets too close, give em a smack and send em back.
They key thing here is not the damage, but the temporary status effect.
Melee button when HELD also has two functions:
-with large weapons (rifles) this winds up to very quickly release a strike when melee-button is released e.g. as you run towards your enemy, hold Melee and release it just as within range.
-With only a small weapon (pistol/knife) or bare-handed this initiates a grapple-move, from behind to put your enemy in a chokehold, or from the front (only if both hands free) to wrestle their gun from them.
-No knife can so surely and instantly kill someone with a strike to anywhere from any angle
-It's mad how it can be drawn and slashed so quickly then put away when you have a 8-lbs rifle in one hand.
I think knife melee should be limited to if the rifle has a bayonet mounted or if you have a pistol with a knife DRAWN!
If the knife/bayonet is to kill in one hit it should be a two-stage attack, a bit like TF2 Sniper's "skewer taunt kill". That is, the first stab immobilises and Continuing To Hold the melee attack button it completes the fatal attack with a twist or gouge move.
The melee-button should be always available to use is a simple "impact+shove manoeuvre" (Like COD2, Left 4 Dead) this move either punches or swipes with a rifle but to impact.
The effect would be moderate health loss, blurred vision and stumble back with little control. So it functions similar to a stun grenade, it buys you more time to engage the enemy, or finish them off if you've shot them a few time but run out of ammo. The idea is the melee is always there, no matter what weapon, whether reload or not. Someone gets too close, give em a smack and send em back.
They key thing here is not the damage, but the temporary status effect.
Melee button when HELD also has two functions:
-with large weapons (rifles) this winds up to very quickly release a strike when melee-button is released e.g. as you run towards your enemy, hold Melee and release it just as within range.
-With only a small weapon (pistol/knife) or bare-handed this initiates a grapple-move, from behind to put your enemy in a chokehold, or from the front (only if both hands free) to wrestle their gun from them.
Yes. The instant kill melee attack works on a risk-reward system, you have to get up close without getting shot which is risky but as a reward you can instantly kill your opponent. Unfortunately its apparently very broken in MW2.HippySecond said:Bad Company:
Knife instantly kills at point blank range, and you get the victim dogs tags as a memento
With Bad Company 2 however there's a canned animation that makes you very vunerable, you're also quite a bit less superhuman about it for the most part. I also like the dogtag system, it makes facestabs all that bit sweeter.
What are the problems?GeorgW said:
I think it works really well there is depth to it that rewards aggressive and dynamic gameplay.
The melee from behind rewards being stealthy, patient (not opening fire as soon as you see them) and timing under pressure.
The melee as a finisher or to remove the shield is beneficial for people thinking about combat a bit deeper, switching from keeping your distance and shooting to lunging forward to intersect and time a perfect strike on intersection.
COD (since COD4 introduced that fucking knife) just rewards running away from confrontation and even if on the brink of death one can insta-kill as the foe rounds a corner. It's not about using the knife WITH your other weapons, its about using them INSTEAD OF others, and the speed players move over such tight maps it does become a knife fest.
Not to mention it makes no sense you can survive 3-4 rifle bullets to the chest but a little knife slash kills you instantly.
But in first-person shooters it can be actually safer to get in close than at medium range.A Pious Cultist said:Yes. The instant kill melee attack works on a risk-reward system, you have to get up close without getting shot which is risky but as a reward you can instantly kill your opponent. Unfortunately its apparently very broken in MW2.HippySecond said:Bad Company:
Knife instantly kills at point blank range, and you get the victim dogs tags as a memento
With Bad Company 2 however there's a canned animation that makes you very vunerable, you're also quite a bit less superhuman about it for the most part. I also like the dogtag system, it makes facestabs all that bit sweeter.
Ever looked out a train or car window as it is travelling fast, notice how it is easier to read a sign that is further away than one that is much closer. Also how trees close to the track appear to zoom right past like a blur yet those further from the track you can easily see. It's like that when you are trying to aim at someone as they get closer.
Say you can pan and aim accurately at 15 degrees per second, and your foe was running parallel to you at 7 meters per second. Bit of Pythagoras says at 30 meters you'll be able to easily track them but closer than that and you will have to pan QUICKER to follow them and accuracy drops. It's easy to zig-zag towards an enemy who is slowed to almost stop while aiming down iron sights then just run PAST them and slash.
The main difference is that your target is bigger when closer, but it is FAR easier for them to circle around you quicker than you can accurately aim to shoot at them.
COD series has had a far-far too small Field-of-View (less than 90 is ridiculous) that makes it even harder to follow sprinting enemies that close in. The knife is too powerful, especially the swipe-move to even the ankle insta-kills, ridiculous.
The only knife insta-kill should be the stab if inflicted to the head or neck. The swipe you don't even have to aim, it's a wide area effect. This is a game that strives for realism but the knife is quite literally utterly incredible.
I think that, in any FPS, it should always be possible to strike an enemy with your weapon and also to switch to a last resort melee weapon (such as, of course, a combat knife). That said, I agree with the OP that "Modern Warfare" makes melee overpowered. It's literally easier to knife someone than to shoot them in many situations in those games. Back when I played MW1 I usually played on hardcore mode, where most kills were made with guns at medium distance. When I played normal mode, I was shocked at how much easier it is to knife someone than to simply shoot them at very close ranges.
The two shooters I play most as of late are Operation Flashpoint (the first one, from 2001) and the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series:
Flashpoint has no melee at all. I mean, it's about as tactical as tactical shooters get so you rarely get close enough for it to matter, but it's still something you should be able to do should you ever need to.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. has, in the definitions stated in the poll, the CS system. The knife is a separate weapon that occupies its own slot and must be selected. It's pretty much suicide to try to attack an armed human with it unless they're unaware of your presence, but it can be used to kill some mutant animals with some skill and luck. It's rarely if ever a one hit kill and you need to dodge their attacks while landing your own.
The two shooters I play most as of late are Operation Flashpoint (the first one, from 2001) and the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series:
Flashpoint has no melee at all. I mean, it's about as tactical as tactical shooters get so you rarely get close enough for it to matter, but it's still something you should be able to do should you ever need to.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. has, in the definitions stated in the poll, the CS system. The knife is a separate weapon that occupies its own slot and must be selected. It's pretty much suicide to try to attack an armed human with it unless they're unaware of your presence, but it can be used to kill some mutant animals with some skill and luck. It's rarely if ever a one hit kill and you need to dodge their attacks while landing your own.
I like it as well, I'm just saying it's not perfect. I can't think of ways to improve it though, it fits very well with the Halo gameplay. Maybe a little slower recharge. I also find it quite off that you can beat someone that has a sword with your fist and the swordwielder will die before you. It's a great mechanic to combat those OP lunges and fun to use, I'm not complaining. It's just weird. (For those of you that don't know, if you beat someone at the exact same time as they hit you with a sword, you lose your shield and most of your health, but you never die, regardless of your health before that. At least that's my experience.) The double beat can be annoying as well, when both die. Understandable, and I wouldn't have it any other way, but still annoying when you're on a streak. I'm not complaining about Halo's melee, I love it. I just found this a nice subject to rant about.Treblaine said:
The thing is melee'ing is a completely different way of playing, and most of the things you have to do differently you don't realise as you control the games through muscle memory, it's like you subconscious is doing most of the decisions.Sir John the Net Knight said:
Shooting is all about the circle strafe, melee goes completely against your instincts to get close.
Apparently the trick with melee is to learn the limit of your enemy's field of vision, get beyond there and you can get in close before they have time to react. The overall rate of damage with melee weapons may not be much higher than the guns, but the key element is it does that damage in an instant, they don't have time to react.
The idea is surprise. Don't be like the Zulu running into gunfire, use surprise, flank.
I admit that I am not good at meleeing at all, I suck at swapping weapons quickly which is really the trick.
I liked the Battlefield 1943 approach, actually. The melee weapons(wrench, sword and bayonet) are all one hit killers, but you have to equip the weapon, be near and be good to use them.
I like the Drop Shield + Melee-combo in Halo: Reach. It's extremely simple:
1. Search for enemy
2. Enemy finds you
3. Enemy has great advantage; he comes from an opportune angle
4. Enemy almost gets you
5. Use Drop Shield
6. Enemy awaits quietly, very close to you
7. Release Drop Shield
8. Enemy shield disappears
9. Melee for massive damage
That's all there's to it. There's the nine steps in the Drop Shield + Melee-combo. Now you try it!
1. Search for enemy
2. Enemy finds you
3. Enemy has great advantage; he comes from an opportune angle
4. Enemy almost gets you
5. Use Drop Shield
6. Enemy awaits quietly, very close to you
7. Release Drop Shield
8. Enemy shield disappears
9. Melee for massive damage
That's all there's to it. There's the nine steps in the Drop Shield + Melee-combo. Now you try it!
